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But the general operational range of oblits is 36". In my experience, small arms don't reach that far without needing to approach a turn or two first.

But yes, to keep with the big target theme, oblits are there.

Swapping the defilers for oblits kills the theme, dilutes the target saturation of big targets, and gives enemy small arms something to shoot at.

Absolutely true. Its a fantastic list.
Why not playing it with different troops?

wuestenfux wrote:

Swapping the defilers for oblits kills the theme, dilutes the target saturation of big targets, and gives enemy small arms something to shoot at.

Absolutely true. Its a fantastic list.
Why not playing it with different troops?

The reason for the Berzerkers is because I love World Eaters and Khorne. To make this list from my existing Khorne army, I just needed to add an extra defiler, dread and Demon Prince. Oddly enough, my walking "Glaive Prince" from 3rd edition became a perfect "Greater Demon" because he doesn't have wings. It's just fun to run a big Khorney monster mash.

I got the idea for this list from "theblklotus" and he advocated using 5 man marine squads and a Land Raider to pop the Greater Demon from, but I've always found that the a couple of big guys get stuck in a large combat with horde troops, or even ten space marines, where their lack of a high number of attacks and combat res mean they can't break themselves out of a combat, even if they're not really getting hurt. The berzerkers are excellent as a second wave to "countercharge" so to speak and break out the big guys from such a combat. 5 man marine squads don't have the same punch, even though they do have bolters, you can't shoot into CC, and that's where I always end up.

It's funny, but when you set up with the dreads and DP's in the middle, Rhino's immediately behind and Defilers on either side, you have a very beefy, quick moving armored column. With some good use of lash, your dreads or defilers can be in combat on turn 1 and pretty close to always on turn 2. I always move the rhinos up directly behind all the big stuff and turn them with their hatches facing to the side, so that on the next turn, the 'zerkers can charge out if need be, or the Greater Demon can pop out. It works really well.

I have to agree with Whitedragon. The conjunction of something big and powerful with something numerous and effective makes for a strong tactical combination. You can:

1. Charge them in at the same time, to wipe out a unit in a single turn.

2. Charge the smaller stuff in first, or use the smaller stuff as bait, so that the bigger stuff can line up a charge. In particular Tactical Space Marines supported by Dreadnoughts are great for this, particularly if the Tactical squad is charged rather than charges, as the Dreadnought can move in and hold off the enemy while the Space Marines disengage without worrying about a Sweeping Advance.

3. Charge the bigger stuff in first, and use the smaller stuff to help mop up what's left over next turn.

Depending on what you have and what you're facing, any of these combinations may be a good idea to deny enemy shooting, destroy enemy units, or to spread limited close combat resources across several enemy units.

The actual buy in for Chaoszilla can be rather cheap.

2 Daemon Princes w/ Wings 260 - 300
Greater Daemon 100
3 Dreadnoughts w/ CC weapon 300
3 Defilers 450

=
1120 to 1200

Now for a fun list :

Daemon Prince w/ Wings
Daemon Prince w/ Wings
Greater Daemon

Elites
8 man Chosen w/ Aspiring w/ Nothing ; armed with whatever you feel I personally like Plasma guns and Mark of chosen
Chaos Dread
Chaos Dread

Troops
10 man w/ Aspiring 2 meltaguns Rhino
10 Man w/ Aspiring 2 Meltaguns Rhino
10 Man w/ 2 meltaguns Rhino
15 Man Daemon Squad

H. Support
Defiler
Defiler

It's in the 1750 to 2000 point range


Chaos Chosen and Greater Daemons go together like Peanut butter and Jelly. Something about infiltrating in moving up six blasting away with weapons.

I guess that's what they've been Chosen for.

3 MC works very well in a mechanized list.

I do quite well with my 1750 rogue trader list.
2 winged deamon princes 1 lash the other a nurgle warptime prince
1 greater deamon
4 troops: All squads in a havok armed rhino
9 thousand sons
10 CSM Pfist champIOCG +2 melta guns
7 PM Pfist + 2 melta guns
6 Noise marines pfist 5 sb +BM +doom siren
1 Heavy support: defiler

I do well with my list, and it's not even optimized with only 1 lash prince and no duplicate units.

There are plenty of ways to do a mechanized 3 MC list, and the basic formula is simple.
2 deamon princes and a greater deamon=430 to 470 points
4 mechanized troops squads=1000 to 1200 points
There are many combinations of troops that work.
Another favorite of mine is one of each cult squad in the # of their chaos god. 9 thousand sons, 8 zerkers, 7 pm, 6 nm.
For zerker fans I would recommend 2 squads of zerks and 2 squads of CSMs each with 2 melta guns.

Merits:
4 mechanized troops make it easy to claim objectives.
Speed, the entire army can move 12" a turn.
4 mechanized troops give great opportunities to bring in a greater daemon.
Chaos troops selections are rock hard and work very well in conjunction with a MC

Flaws:
Not many points are left for heavy support. Probably only about 150 points left enough for a single defiler, vindicator, or a pair of oblits.
Usually out gunned. The first turn is probably going to consist of little but moving 12" with everybody and popping smoke.
Given the general lack of long range firepower from this list it's debatable if heavy support should even be taken.
One could take lesser deamons or teleporting terminators instead of heavy support.
Pretty much any of the choices work as there is a lot more than 1 way to skin this cat.

Nurglitch wrote:I guess that's what they've been Chosen for.

I lol'd.

schadenfreude wrote:I do well with my list, and it's not even optimized with only 1 lash prince and no duplicate units.

That made me cringe and want to rant, but I'm short on time.

As for that list, don't take a Powerfist on Noise Marines as a rule. Don't take a BM and a Doom Siren. You'll either be shooting or assaulting, but not both.

DarkHound wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:I guess that's what they've been Chosen for.

I lol'd.

schadenfreude wrote:I do well with my list, and it's not even optimized with only 1 lash prince and no duplicate units.

That made me cringe and want to rant, but I'm short on time.

As for that list, don't take a Powerfist on Noise Marines as a rule. Don't take a BM and a Doom Siren. You'll either be shooting or assaulting, but not both.

I did spend a lot of points on my noise marine squad, more than I would normally recommend.
I could strip the pfist for a pweapon and remove the doom siren saving 25 points enough for 1 more noise marine with a sb.
It would up my dakka, and give another wound, but at the cost of flexibility.
The squad is a swiss army knife, not a specialized tool.
I have that squad in a list made for tournaments where I don't know who or what I'll be fighting.
That's why I play with an overpriced swiss army knife of a unit.