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we could cut up white dwarf and use the letters in it to spell out complaints to show our disdain!!!

Though I agree with your trials, and with the idea of sending it to the CEO, and even the CFO, but the only real way to to appeal to the stock holders. Believe it or not a board is powerless to a majority of the stock holders. If you go to their annual meeting and you are a stock holder you may be able to convince enough to make a change, but otherwise you are just barking up a tree with no cat on top.

Good luck.

Personally, I think any success starts as a shareholder, then as a buyer.

Writing letters? How quaint.

GW US only cares if the paper says "Federal Reserve Note"

Any other ideas about what an effective effort could be, if it was coordinated well as a community?

Empchild wrote:Though I agree with your trials, and with the idea of sending it to the CEO, and even the CFO, but the only real way to to appeal to the stock holders. Believe it or not a board is powerless to a majority of the stock holders. If you go to their annual meeting and you are a stock holder you may be able to convince enough to make a change, but otherwise you are just barking up a tree with no cat on top.

except that the majority of GW's stock holders is the venture capital holding company that took GW over in the 90's when they almost went tits up.

ie: the guys that put Kirby in charge and the guys directing what GW has been doing since the 90's.

You guys just. don't. get. that. Do you?

Oh well it's all hopeless and nothing we can do will make any difference etc etc ad nauseam.

Look I agree with being a cynic and I agree that pretty much any complaint raised as a community will be ignored and/or refuted. However, I do believe doing *something* is better than sitting around doing nothing with our thumbs up our a**es. In fact, it's better than doing nothing and then whinging and whining on a forum about GW.

You're definately right.

Which is why I stopped buying from Games Workshop.

Very decisive action. I have since been amazed on my travels across the interwebs at the great work being produced by other mini companies. It's been a great move for me.

Boycotts can be effective. However, sporadic boycotts will not be. If anything, it needs to be organised and well constructed and therein lies the problem; any talk of a boycott always ends in everyone arguing and flaming and lets be honest, out of all the people who say they will boycott, how many actually stick to it?

As has been said before by various people, really the only way to hurt a company like GW and make them sit up and take notice of a message is to hit them hard in the wallet. How we as a community can do that, i have no idea.

filbert wrote:Oh well it's all hopeless and nothing we can do will make any difference etc etc ad nauseam.

Look I agree with being a cynic and I agree that pretty much any complaint raised as a community will be ignored and/or refuted. However, I do believe doing *something* is better than sitting around doing nothing with our thumbs up our a**es. In fact, it's better than doing nothing and then whinging and whining on a forum about GW.

Meh.

I was on a "boycott" of Games Workshop for 5 years due to a horrible marraige. Now that's over with and I'm actually having fun with the hobby again. You kids can do what you want, but I actually spent $175 as a christmas present to myself last night to start a Noise Marine army for an escalation league.

filbert wrote:out of all the people who say they will boycott, how many actually stick to it?

As has been said before by various people, really the only way to hurt a company like GW and make them sit up and take notice of a message is to hit them hard in the wallet. How we as a community can do that, i have no idea.

When I deduced the last GW Boycott was a total farce, just like every other Internet-led boycott before it, I pretended to play along right up until the moment that something shiny caught my eye at the Battle Bunker Bazaar. At that point, I let my self interest jump way the hell in front of some stupid pretend boycott. I'm proud to have done my share and boycotted GW for all of a week, when I wasn't buying anything anyways. And now that there isn't anything I'm buying at the moment, I'm going to pretend to be all outraged at GW and boycott them again!

If you want to boycott GW, then you need to show big numbers over a sustained period. In this regard, the Internet is utter FAIL. It's a effing joke. It's an infant throwing a tantrum.

If you're going to do this, some advice (not that I think anyone cares to hear it)...

Stop making this about you. When I see things like threads called "The Great Fan Pushback of 2010", MGS calling on people to join his boycott, or the constant stream of "GW won't listen to you. They're EEEEEEEEVIL!", I don't get a sense of concerned customers trying to save the product they love. I get more the sense of internet geeks trying to make a dramatic show and get attention as put-upon rebels.

Whatever actions you take, you will not get taken seriously if you look like you're taking them to over-dramatise what is essentially a dispute over toy soldiers. That's not to say you guys shouldn't try what you're doing. Just try to keep the chest-thumping to a minimum.

Howlingmoon wrote:

Meh.

I was on a "boycott" of Games Workshop for 5 years due to a horrible marraige. Now that's over with and I'm actually having fun with the hobby again. You kids can do what you want, but I actually spent $175 as a christmas present to myself last night to start a Noise Marine army for an escalation league.

This is precisely the point I am trying to make. Out of all the people who are dissatisfied with GW's actions, you will get some who are rabid about punishing them, some who aren't and some who are just indifferent and apathetic. That is why a boycott will not work unless it is organised and controlled to the 'n'th degree - something that will be highly unlikely to organise as a fan base.

As for your own choices, well that is your right as a consumer; if you don't feel that strongly about GW's actions in recent months/years, then one can hardly expect you to be an active participant.

For the record, I don't personally plan to boycott GW because I don't think it will make any difference. I, along with many others, will just keep sucking up GW's crap because I like their games and fluff and am willing to put up with the BS as opposed to finding an alternative and voting with my feet.

RiTides wrote:Any other ideas about what an effective effort could be, if it was coordinated well as a community?

A hunger strike, preferably in front of the GW HQ in Nottinghamshire.

Keep it up until somebody actually dies. That way it will get media attention for sure.

Hunger strike? How quaintly passive-aggressive.

Man up and self-immolate!

JohnHwangDD wrote:Hunger strike? How quaintly passive-aggressive.

Man up and self-immolate!

You first....





Just kidding of course...

Howlingmoon wrote:

Empchild wrote:Though I agree with your trials, and with the idea of sending it to the CEO, and even the CFO, but the only real way to to appeal to the stock holders. Believe it or not a board is powerless to a majority of the stock holders. If you go to their annual meeting and you are a stock holder you may be able to convince enough to make a change, but otherwise you are just barking up a tree with no cat on top.

except that the majority of GW's stock holders is the venture capital holding company that took GW over in the 90's when they almost went tits up.

ie: the guys that put Kirby in charge and the guys directing what GW has been doing since the 90's.

You guys just. don't. get. that. Do you?

I do get it actually just like I know disney made an offer to buy them out in 2002 but Citadel refused. Also everyone GW owns a very popular historical line formerly known as wargames foundry. They have branched out, but the point of it all is the only way you could really force a valid change would be through a majority vote of the stock holders, and since the majority is owned by a single corp. your chances are aboutzero to nill. The company that bought out GW sis so as an investment hence the changes we have seen. They propbably care little about gaming as they bought it to make money. I can't tell you what they think though because I amnot on their board. I am at a cubical in a GOV't building here in the commonwealth of MASS. Though I agree something needs to change, short of you actually getting like thousands of sigs with peoples info to support that yes they are real people, I just don't see anything working.

These days, all you need is a Facebook group and a celebrity to attract the press!

Seriously, though, painting and playing with small metal or plastic dolls might be as nerdy a hobby as they come, but I have no doubt that if a substantial part of the hobby community banded together and acted professionally they could be heard and have an impact.
But as already mentioned, being a shareholder is a good first step. Get all the other GW fan sites out there on the bandwagon and encourage every user of those sites to buy 1 GW stock. Ofcourse by far from everyone will buy 1, but if a "donation drive" could be setup that accepted paypal and could buy the stocks from the fans, that should make it easier for people. (Laziness is the worst enemy of any "consumer revolution" )

Make a big list of all the shareholders names and form a "concerned shareholders group", and then send 1 representative to a shareholder meeting to bring forth the general points brought up here.

All the while trying to get some press coverage, any type, so that it can get a wider coverage, and would make GW notice it. I mean, I've seen the BBC News run a story about some dudes who's hobby was restoring old consoles, that's fairly nerdy as well.

All this needs to be refined and channeled by a "Spartacus" ofcourse, but I have no doubt it could work, if the snowball would start to roll...

Best thing to do if you're really offended is stop buying GW. The problem with that of course is that they do make some excellent plastic fantasy models- but if you look around you'll find many other companies doing fine work in that arena who are usually cheaper too.

I dunno, I'm pretty annoyed about this, but again I don't realistically see myself boycotting entirely any time soon. I am branching out into other systems more and more, but if I'm honest that is self interest too. I've enough going on in my life that I want my hobby to be sheer enjoyment not weighed by moral outrage and angst.

Storytime folks.

I spent 10 years in the US Army, then worked in Law Enforcement for several years after that, so i used to be heavily into the "gun scene" here in the states. Back in the late 80's, the MAIN weapons dealer for law enforcement was still Smith and Wesson. Sure the Semi-Autos were making a dent in the LEO Pistol sales, but by and far, Smith and Wesson Revolvers still had the lions share of business Nationwide. Over 75% of their pistol sales were to private citizens as well, making the majority of their income derive from "luxury sales" collectors, gun enthusiasts, competition shooters, etc, etc.

During the 1990 Weapons ban that ended so disastrously for the Clinton administration, Smith and Wesson signed on to the ban, folding under political pressure. Their customer base abandoned them immediately. line managers, junior execs, VP's, etc, etc, etc....90% of the SW employees were screaming at the CEO, CFO, COO and their top execs...and they were ignored. The Company signed onto the Ban on various weapons, and was promptly treated as a diseased whore by their customers, including most of law enforcement.

During the 90's, sales at S&W trickled down to almost nothing, and they were hurt...badly...their loss of market share allowed Glock, Sig, and even Taurus to enter and seriously compete in the pistol market here in the US. Only the Foreign sales allowed S&W to keep their doors open.

What GW is doing is essentially the same. They are angering their customer base, allowing competitors to gain market share, and loosing money. I would put money on the fact that most of the mid level execs and the hordes of faceless hourly wage workers are furious as well...but the top execs don't care, or don't know, that the moves their company is making are really Pi$$ing us off. The top execs don't HAVE to care, they make their money anyway, and by the time the shareholders start putting pressure on, it's too late...their customer base has already moved to FoW, Warmachine, etc, etc.... I certainly have.

Dont get me wrong, i still love playing 40K. I have a small fortune in 6 different armies. But i already have what i need. Sure the new nids will be tempting, but i already have lots of fexes and gaunts, and forgeworld trygons. GW will not get another dime from me until they change their ways.

Pipboy101 wrote:To keezus: Buying and then returning product only hurts the LFGS owner and buying a gift card and returning does even less since nothing of physical value was traded. You might even lose out since alot of companies will charge a service fee to return a gift card.

Forgot to note to do at a GW outlet. It is pointless to hurt a LFGS.

Edit 1: Granted, without knowing GW's exact return policies, this maneuver is fairly unadvisable. GW will only take note that something is up through direct impacts to their cashflow. A mass return on a large scale would theoretically affect supply chain and inventory, as well as their profits... Like anything else brought up in this thread, not terribly effective, and would only work en masse - and ideally if items bought and sold were starters, which GW's are geared to push.

Writing letters, even if they are a form letter with individual signatures is quiet a good way of getting noticed. The amount of mail would force any company just to take a look and maybe invite some dialogue.

Individuals boycotting product and moving elsewhere does not say anything, its barely noticeable on any great level.

Individuals or a group could be come shareholders, I believe that once you own shares you are entitled to go to the annual meeting. You can chair a vote of no confidence in the board, explaining the reasons behind it. This is probably the more ludicrous position since its expected that 2010 will see an increase in pre tax profit and another reduction in debt burden and 2011 will see better pre tax profits again. Anyone trying this would just be seen as a crank.

Product pricing - GW pricing strategy is not based on what competitors are doing.However, it could be a way in if its argued that a lot of players are using third party and alternative companies products rather than using GW/citadel. depends on if there are a substantial amount of people willing to back this up?

Legal Issues - Forget what your brothers cousins uncles dog thinks they know, it would take paid legal advice to see if there is a case against the C&D's that have been issued let alone to argue against GW claiming ownership to their IP's (contested by someones brothers friends uncles sloth) basically this needs financial support to even see if its viable.

Mr. Burning wrote:Writing letters, even if they are a form letter with individual signatures is quiet a good way of getting noticed. The amount of mail would force any company just to take a look and maybe invite some dialogue.

Individuals boycotting product and moving elsewhere does not say anything, its barely noticeable on any great level.

Individuals or a group could be come shareholders, I believe that once you own shares you are entitled to go to the annual meeting. You can chair a vote of no confidence in the board, explaining the reasons behind it. This is probably the more ludicrous position since its expected that 2010 will see an increase in pre tax profit and another reduction in debt burden and 2011 will see better pre tax profits again. Anyone trying this would just be seen as a crank.

Product pricing - GW pricing strategy is not based on what competitors are doing.However, it could be a way in if its argued that a lot of players are using third party and alternative companies products rather than using GW/citadel. depends on if there are a substantial amount of people willing to back this up?

Legal Issues - Forget what your brothers cousins uncles dog thinks they know, it would take paid legal advice to see if there is a case against the C&D's that have been issued let alone to argue against GW claiming ownership to their IP's (contested by someones brothers friends uncles sloth) basically this needs financial support to even see if its viable.

Yes you can request a vote of no confidence in the board, and to do so you need a majority vote. SO lets see if 51% of all GW stocks are owned by a pvt. corp such as they are and they vote confidence, and 49%vote no confidence even though that 49% is in the thousands of peeps guess who wins. Plus votes such as those cause problems because when you do that legally (Iknow this from a very sad experience) you have to pay out a percentage of assets to the individual once you can them.Now generally if the company is in the red it's more like heres a penny have fun, but often never works that way.

My last cent was spent on GW when I bought the 5th ed 40k rulebook. While I agree not spending money on GW is the best way to get their attention, I'd take it a bit further than even that. Start talking to your LFGS owners. Usually lots of us know the proprietors personally and if you don't, then get to know them. At that point tell them you're no longer supporting GW products and how they may need to re-think purchasing those products. That would be a way bigger punch in GW's wallet than just one persons decision to stop spending money.

If I had a LFGS locally to me this is the first step I'd take. I've toyed w/ the idea of starting my own shop and I know if that happened I'd not carry GW products. Just another thought.

keezus wrote: A mass return on a large scale would theoretically affect supply chain and inventory, as well as their profits...

This will only work if you returned opened goods since the company cannot simply reseal the package and put it back on the shelf at full price if it has already been openned even it all the pieces are there. However, this would have to be done in such volume and there isn't enough people that have the money or leave close enough to an Offical GW store, not a LFGS.

deffskullz wrote:we could cut up white dwarf and use the letters in it to spell out complaints to show our disdain!!!

You could, but there's only so many words you can make out of SPACE MARINES.

Rymafyr wrote:My last cent was spent on GW when I bought the 5th ed 40k rulebook. While I agree not spending money on GW is the best way to get their attention, I'd take it a bit further than even that. Start talking to your LFGS owners. Usually lots of us know the proprietors personally and if you don't, then get to know them. At that point tell them you're no longer supporting GW products and how they may need to re-think purchasing those products. That would be a way bigger punch in GW's wallet than just one persons decision to stop spending money.

If I had a LFGS locally to me this is the first step I'd take. I've toyed w/ the idea of starting my own shop and I know if that happened I'd not carry GW products. Just another thought.

Not really. You know as well as I do that GW really don't want anyone other than GW Stores carrying their stuff.

Why? Because Independent Retailers are FILTHY DISCOUNTERS.

True..I had overlooked that...

Hit them in their target market.
12 to 14 yr olds.
get on youtube and facebook. tell people about them.

Just curious, how long have all you been playing? Cause my memory goes pretty far back, accounting for the standard lapses. Tell me about this golden age, when all the codexs were perfectly balanced, the models were beautiful and cheap, when GW swooped down the chimney with a smile and a ham sandwich, to ask, "What's wrong, little fella?", when no one played Marines, and all armies were supported equally.
Take me back past the mists of the red age, past the card stock models, take me back, to the long, long ago...

I believe you mean The Grand Dakka of Strawmen. I was merely observing that I've been reading this particular thread, sometimes multiple versions of it, for over a decade now.
However, no one is forcing me to read this, and I must surely have something better to do. The burden of power is great. Therefore, I ceed the treefort to you. I hope that there will be no bad blood between our two great nations, at least nothing that an exchage of pleasantries, and well wishing, won't fix.