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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka



Chicago, Illinois

The thing that i fear and I've faced which is horribly efficient is the gargoyles getting feel no pain from tervigons.

If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated. 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

also gargs w/both poison and furious charge cost the same as hormagaunts w/poison and are actually more cost effective than hormagaunts and can be a last ditch vehicle glancer. they also move faster guarenteed.

it really comes down to.play style for me though. i'd rather test some hormies in a pod w/a alpha warrior than try out the gargs right now

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





The House that Peterbilt

Only reason I can think of to take the gargoyles is to screen some MCs. So with that in mind.

Something long term I was thinking of is a more speedy big boy assault army.

Flying Tyrant, reserve
Flying Tyrant

3x Hive Guard
3x Hive Guard

Tervigon, Catalyst, Regen
Tervigon, Catalyst, Regen
10 termagants
10 Termagants

10 gargoyles
10 gargoyles

Mawloc
Trygon
Trygon

Idea is to get as much big stuff in your opponents face, and have no LOS required shooting and the mawloc popping as many transports before the turn 3 charge can happen.

Short term, I am thinking of something pretty similar to others here since I have have a bunch of carnifexes, foot tyrants and stealers I'd like to use, at least for awhile.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/31 00:26:53


snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."

Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away." 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Somewhere in the confinds of central Jersey

Winterman I was planning something very simillar to that list. I just had walking tyrants and I replaced the gargoyles with a squad of ymgarl genestealers, and ran 3 mawlocs.

Do you know roughly how many points that list comes out to?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

Here is the 2000 point list I will try and get some test games with on Saturday, points are estimates:

-HQ-

Tyrant w/ Scything Talons, Heavy Venom Cannon, Insight (+1 reserve rolls), Injector (to wound roll of 6 causes instant death)

2 Tyrant Guard

-Elites-

Death Leaper

2 Hive Guard

2 Zoenthropes

-Troops-

10 Termagaunts

Tervigon w/ Catalyst, Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs

10 Termagaunts

Tervigon w/ Catalyst, Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs

4 Warriors w/ Deathspitters, Venom Cannon in Pod

-Heavy-

Carnifex w/ Scything Talons, Heavy Venom Cannon, Bioplasma

Carnifex w/ Scything Talons, Heavy Venom Cannon, Bioplasma

Trygon


I noticed you get a few more points in your list if you go to 2 man squads when it comes to Hive Guard and Zoenthropes.

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





The House that Peterbilt

Winterman I was planning something very simillar to that list. I just had walking tyrants and I replaced the gargoyles with a squad of ymgarl genestealers, and ran 3 mawlocs.

Do you know roughly how many points that list comes out to?

Roughly?
Lets see

Walking Tyrant -- base cost is 7 more points then a classic chitin and senses gunfex. Devourers cost the same as 5 current spinegaunts.
Hive Guard -- 5 more points then current Tyrant Guard
Mawlocs -- Same base cost as Tyrant above
Ymargl Stealers -- same as current stealers w/ extended carapace and scuttlers
Tervigon -- base cost is 3 less points then a classic chitin and senses gunfex. Regen is 6 spinegaunts, catalyst is 3.
Termagants cost the same as current spinegaunts

So
Hive Tyrant -- base
Hive Tyrant -- base

3x Hive Guard
3x Hive Guard
10 Ymargl Stealers

Tervigon, Catalyst, Regen
Tervigon, Catalyst, Regen
10 Termagants
10 Termagants

Mawloc
Mawloc
Mawloc

1890 points. Would need to lose 10 points in order to add 2 tyrant guard for 2k.

Hope that helps.

snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."

Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away." 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






on board Terminus Est

I am surprised no one is fielding the tyrannofex... It's a freaking beast!

G

ALL HAIL SANGUINIUS! No one can beat my Wu Tang style!

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Made in us
Snord




NC, USA

There are so many different combinations floating around and/or possible with the new book coming out, its hard to decide. I know the Mawloc one is tempting so many people, although I'm starting to rethink it as far as if it can pop out a turn, burrow down in the next turn, then autopop out the following turn, your looking at 2 templates in a 5 turn game. Add in you could roll bad for your reserves, your really paying alot of points for 2 templates which could scatter and do nothing.
I'm liking the tervigon - I just don't expect it to do alot in CC by itself. I think the real bonus to it is it's survivability, it's a scoring unit and the buff that it can give with it's catalyst power. I know folks are saying "well I'll have 12 missile launchers out on the table to kill it" - thats great and all but that many missile launchers usually mean your sacrificing your "anti-horde" capabilities, which the termagaunts and hormogaunts can exploit.
I don't know - for dropping a Mawloc, I could squeeze in basically 2 units of 3 raveners with rending claws, which each one putting out 15 rending attacks on the charge at WS5 could be more beneficial. Of course getting them in combat is a little more hard, but they have the potential for a 24" inch charge!
Don't see that many folks having genestealers in their lists anymore - I think with their outflank abilities, combined with their usual nastiness, they would be invaluable against the gunlines which are going to try to shoot the footsloggers.
Zoanthropes vs Hive Guard - I would think more people would be taking the zoanthropes. Sure they still need line of sight for their shooting, but when you figure in the 3+ invul and 2 forms of shooting attacks, I think they're incredible for the points cost. Curious if the harpoon attack from the Hive Guard still allows a cover save from terrain in between them and the target.
The Trygon I'm thinking more about now with the whole Mawloc debate - I could foot slog it and probably get it in combat by turn 3, with at least 3 rounds of combat following (so awesome in combat, especially potentially boosted by either the Hive Tyrant or Tervigons). Little more expensive, but can deep strike it without a real chance of mishaps (if the move enemy models out of the way rule holds true much like a drop pod) and get it in that much quicker.
I do like the somewhat larger cheap termagaunt broods, as I'm still leery about the Tervigons rolling bad for broods so like to give them a little more survivability. They are crappy in combat, but so cheap that anything they do is a bonus. Of course, a brood of 20 termagaunts boosted with adrenal glands and poison from a Tervigon, as well as FNP can still do some damage against MEQs.

So, with all this in mind, another idea I have for a more balanced bug list:

Hive Tyrant w/Heavy Venom Cannon, Life Leech, Warp Scream, Vicious Mind : 200 pts
2 Tyrant Guard w/Lash whips : 120 pts
1 Zoanthrope : 55 pts
1 Zoanthrope : 55 pts
1 Zoanthrope : 55 pts
20 Termagaunts : 100 pts
20 Termagaunts : 100 pts
1 Tervigon w/adrenal glands and poison : 180 pts
1 Tervigon w/adrenal glands and poison : 180 pts
12 Genestealers w/Scything Talons : 192 pts
12 Genestealers w/Scything Talons : 192 pts
3 Raveners w/Rending Claws: 110 pts
3 Raveners w/Rending Claws: 110 pts
1 Trygon : 200 pts

Works out to be 1839 with a few points left over. Good mix of troops to soak up shooting, Tervigons to boost, shooting blasts and anti-tank from the Zoans, fast rending attacks from the genestealers and raveners - dying to play test it.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I like how everybody is adding qualifiers like "as far as I know" and then putting exact point values of units.

Yeah, you're not using a pirated pdf at all.
   
Made in us
Lead-Footed Trukkboy Driver



On the back of a hog.

I don't see why anyone would think the +1 to reserves doesn't stack.

For the hive tyrants skill grants +1 to reserve "so long as he's alive". And the lictor's pheromone trail works as long as he's on the table.

Let's say a list has a tyrant and a lictor on the board. Are they both alive? Check. Lictor on the board? Check. Do they both individually add +1 to reserves? Check. Is there any rule saying they can't stack? Or any reason to believe they don't besides "its good"? Nope.

Or 2 tyrants. Are they both alive? Check. Do they both add +1 to reserve rolls? Check.

Let's pretend its turn #2. 4+ for reserves. One source gives an additional +1 to reserves. Another gives a seperate and additional +1. Now were at a 2+ for reserves.

Let's assume these translations from the german codex are correct. And no further verbage is added to the english copy. Whats the problem?
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





The House that Peterbilt

The problem is GWs spotty take on such matters in their FAQ. Autarch reserve bonuses stack. The IG advisors do not stack. Neither case happens to be different unit types though, so perhaps lictor + tyrant will stack, but tyrant + tyrant won't. That is when an FAQ is released for the Nids sometime in 2011. Till then I think RAW you are correct.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/31 20:56:05


snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."

Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away." 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Shep wrote:I've been asked a couple times about gargoyles... unfortunately, even considering their massive buff and massive cost slashing... I don't think they ahve a place n the tourney lists I'm going to write. It isn't that they arn't fairly costed, or not good at doing anything, its just that vehicles are so prevalent and the units that are excellent at taking out vehicles are so costly, that they just don't have a home.
My thinking was that since Troops are getting so full (with Tervigons, Warriors & Genestealers) then not being Troops could be an advantage to Gargoyles.

When you factor in the Gun and Blinding Poison they are about as dangerous to T3/4 as Toxic Hormagaunts. Weaker vs T5+ but they can glance AV10 and have better movement (which should mean a second turn charge). They do get weaker in a prolonged combat though.

On the Charge...
15 Toxic Hormagaunts kills 4.38 MEq and 13.13 GEq
20 Gargoyles . . . . . . .kills 4.63 MEq and 12.22 GEq

Battle reports and random musings on my blog - http://lyracian.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

Even better give the gargs toxic sacs and adrenal glands for the same cost as the toxic gaunts and see the numbers shift heavily for the gargs. Which I might use in larger games, like my Ard Boyz list

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They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
Made in ca
Huge Hierodule






Outflanking

Yeah, biggest advantage Toxigaunts have is being scoreing.

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A: A Maniraptor 
   
Made in us
Snord




NC, USA

The more I'm reading about it, I'm starting to wonder about the benefits to taking a hive tyrant. With the winged option being extremely expensive, a footslogger with tryant guards seems to be about the best choice. However - with the guards it's becoming almost cost prohibitive for what you get.
Here's my logic.
Pros: Monstrous creature, high toughness, synapse, pretty good in CC, psychic power make it deadlier, bonus to reserve rolls, fire magnet

Cons: Extremely expensive, foot slogging, no invul save, range on psychic powers is limited, CC abilities increased at the expense of shooting attacks

For the same cost as the Hive Tyrant combo, I could get a Trygon (which seems to be just as good in CC, not to mention deep striking it) and a brood of genestealers or warriors or something. Sure the psychic powers dropping enemy units WS and BS down is great, but the range is limited and everyone seems to have a pyschic hood these days. The loss of improved reserved rolling could be mitigated by a lictor, but I don't know if I'm ready to spend 80 points on one of those.

Its tough - could just take a Tervigon as the HQ choice and be done with it. Thoughts?
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

So I finally got a game in with the new rules this past weekend. I'm not much for full-blown battle reports, but I can give an overview with my thoughts relating to the game and army list.

My buddy (Cruentus on this forum) played BA. He had Mephiston, Tac squads in Rhinos, an assault squad, DC, Baal Pred, Dread, Attack Bikes, and a Whirlwind. My army -- more of a playing what I want to try list rather than something I've carefully tuned -- was mostly reserve-based, including a winged Tyrant, Zoeys (pod), Warriors (pod), Carnifex (pod), Trygon, Hormagaunts (outflank) and Genestealers (outflank). I also had a Tervigon, Termagants and Hive Guards as my on-table groundpounders. The mission was Capture & Control. He chose second turn and kept a number of stuff in reserves to counterattack my droppers.

Long story short, I played it very aggressively with my reserves, which I think was a major mistake given the situation and mission. Although my 'stealers and Hormies took down units off the outflank, I overestimated how much damage my drop shooting would do. As a result, I left too much intact, and that plus his reserves coming in got into me pretty good. Still, the following brawl was very deadly to both our armies. My Tyrant and Trygon really mopped up, although they were outclassed by his DC (which accounted for 4-5 unit kills, including a Tervigon and Carnifex). Although I removed all his Troops and mostly cleaned out his deployment zone, he was able to spring his DC and contest my objective. I couldn't hold his thanks to having no Troops left. In fact, I was down to my Trygon and my pods. Real bloodbath of a game

My many mistakes and brain farts (pod shots, d'oh!) aside, I felt like I learned a lot. Here are some thoughts and observations:

-My Trygon was very good...so much so that I think a Trygon Alpha would be great. That upgraded gun plus Ld10 plus synapse is a really good package for 40 more pts. I really don't have an issue sinking the extra points into the unit.

-All the rerolls on Trygons, Tyrants, etc. make them much deadlier in combat than before. You actually have a fair chance at killing MEqs equal to your A value instead of just 2 or 3.

-Hormagaunts were maybe even more glass and more hammer than I thought. They crippled (immobilized and weapon destroyed) a Whirlwind, then wiped out a Terminator squad (partially thanks to the whammy making them WS1), then died in one shooting phase once my buddy decided he's seen enough of that. If you can get and somehow keep the initiative with these guys, they'll be good for you.

-What flamers do to Genestealers now is almost criminal.

-Pod shooting is a nice option vs. remnant squads.

-The army overall seems to have less recovery speed than it used to, thanks to the loss of fleet and move through cover. That can get your units stranded out in the open more than you'd like. Which is problematic with all the glass hammers.

-Shep is right that FNP and toxin and adrenal buffs from a Tervigon still don't make Termagants a good CC unit. FNP and cover saves makes them reasonably tough to remove at range, however. Maybe Devourers will make a difference, but they still look more like objective holders than any offensive threat.

-My Tervigon's spawning machine threw a rod after one shot. I'm starting to see the value in two Tervigons (thanks to the FNP for the firebase as much as anything), but I still have reservations about fielding three. I just don't know if the spawning accomplishes enough. And Termagants and Tervigons don't cut it in shooting or CC.

-Mephiston's psychic hood helped rein in my Zoeys and psychics until the Tyrant squished him. Ld 10 on Tyrants, Tervigons and Zoeys mean the hood doesn't really put a clampdown on Tyranid psychics, but it has an effect.

-I really like Hive Guard. They're just relentless anti-vehicle troops. Out of LOS? I'm firing on ya. Behind cover? I'm firing on ya...and no cover save for you. They aren't game winners or anything, but I really like them.

-My enthusiasm for Zoeys has waned a little. Hoods limit them, and I kinda feel there's enough anti-transport with HG and all the other options. Or at least enough given the comparatively high cost of Zoeys. It's only been one game (and one that wasn't against Land Raiders), but they feel like more dedicated anti-MBT weapons, and I'm not sure how much of that the army needs. I'll give them more tries, and if I don't play them so stupidly the low power shot may be prove to be valuable against MEqs on foot. The 3++ was pretty nice, though.

-Boy, as expected, the army plays a lot differently now. It's a little bit SM pod, a little bit Daemon and a little bit Eldar.

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