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It's under Wargear: "Ghazgkull has an adamantium skull, a bosspole, a cybork body, mega armour..."

Gotta have rams for trukks man, they can't tankshock without them and you get to re-roll difficult terrain and as an added bonus you become AV12 when resolving death or glory. By the way you can't ram with or without them.

mercer wrote:TBH I don't think those rams on the trukks are that good as well. Trukks are weak and won't generate that good strength hit, if I'm correct they will get a S7 hit, 5 for the 18" move and +2 for reinforced ram. You will end up doing a S5 hit to yourself, not massive damage but on a already weak trukk could be threatening. I'd keep those trukks as cheap as, perhaps add red paint job in your case as its more viable wargear for your tactics and method of play. To make that S7 work you've got to make sure you hit other tanks on either the side armour, though more than likely the rear armour - not always possible.

This isn't really good advice. Rams are the only method orks have to reroll failed dangerous terrain checks with their trukks, and it's the most efficient method they have to reroll checks for their wagons. You may be reading "ram" thinking that he's going to run into other vehicles with it, but that certainly isn't what he stated. The vehicles convey troops, and to convey troops effectively, it is worth the 5 points to go from a 1/6 chance of immobilization everytime you clip terrain to a 1/36.

Dropping rams is only feasible if you are playing on a soccer field.

Yeah, have a look what save cybork body gives. Please point out to me where it says 5+ invulnerable save.

mercer wrote:Yeah, have a look what save cybork body gives. Please point out to me where it says 5+ invulnerable save.

In the equipment listing under "Cybork body". Should I ask at this point whether you have ever played as or against orks? Some of these features you are bashing and questioning are pretty basic Orky stuff, and I would assume you would be familiar with what orks do before you try to fix someone's list.

I've got a undefeated 2,000 points Ork army thanks bud, well lost one game, but that was 2 on 1 and I lost by one kill point...

Ah sorry, I thinking about mega armour which doesn't have invulnerable save - what a gakker! lol.

I'm only human, like yourself, and make mistakes just like everyone else. So please don't talk down to me and question whether or not I've played orks and presume I haven't.

number9dream wrote:Well, I think he's talking more about landspeeders or piranha's, not so much Raiders and Wave Serpents.

Exactly. I am talking about gakky landspeeders and throwaway rhinos make a series of road blocks to allow your opponent to get another round of shooting in. This is what that SW list can do because no individual unit is expensive. I just dont know what the counter is.

mercer wrote:I'm only human, like yourself, and make mistakes just like everyone else. So please don't talk down to me and question whether or not I've played orks and presume I haven't.

I would point out that Americans don't talk down to the British. As John Oliver states, we are culturally still convinced that the British are inherently superior to us in every way, and that probably explains why I won't buy anything expensive unless the marketing campaigns include a calm British (not Cockney) accent explaining the luxury of the product. So in fact, I'm bowing to you acknowledging your awesomeness, and no doubt you have a 99.9999997% win ratio.

I was just pointing out that you were misrepresenting the usefulness of several items in the codex. Thraka's Waaagh!, adamantium skull, standard equipment listings, and rams... they aren't unknown elements of some obscure army build.

You don't want to buy anything from cockneys

Like I said, I'm human and make mistakes like yourself or the next guy. For some reason I was just looking under mega armour all the time, god knows why??

I know how rams work. You get a point for every 3" you've moved, so if you've moved 18" thats 6 points and then a point for every armour over 10, so another 8, so a S8 hit. I think I said S7 so only one out. Still not good if your bouncing off armour 12. Though the trukk would suffer a S8 hit as well if armour 12, perhaps S9 as other things are a tank.

mercer wrote:I know how rams work. You get a point for every 3" you've moved, so if you've moved 18" thats 6 points and then a point for every armour over 10, so another 8, so a S8 hit. I think I said S7 so only one out. Still not good if your bouncing off armour 12. Though the trukk would suffer a S8 hit as well if armour 12, perhaps S9 as other things are a tank.

I think you missed my point about reinforced rams.

First, you don't take a ram so that you can ram vehicles. It can be argued that they can't ram to begin with, since they aren't tanks. While they are granted tank shock via the ram, it doesn't explicitly provide the ability to ram, and you could (and likely would) get into arguments about it depending on who you play.

Second, the primary value of the ram is to make sure that your troops get where they are going. Without rams running 7 vehicles across terrain, you are more likely than not going to immobilize one vehicle, because you have a 16.666% chance of failing your dangerous terrain check. You should lose 1.16666 vehicles as you roll through. Add rams, and you now have a 0.195 casualtry rate rolling over that terrain, meaning you'd need to roll over terrain for 6 consecutive turns to equal the probability of losing a trukk thanks to the reroll. Rams add more value than their 5 points costs you, and should never be left off a trukk unless you play games exclusively with no terrain. Even then, it could easily be argued that the 5 points is worth it for tank shock.

Yep - as far as I'm concerned, reinforced rams and boarding planks are required wargear on every ork trukk. Red paint and rokkit upgrades are optional, and the rest is mostly a waste of points.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated my list as follows:

-Subtracted 10 kommandos
-Subtracted 2x Kannons on the battlewagons, added big shootas
-Added a unit of 5 Lootas.
-Struggled with doubt and self-loathing.
-Removed the unit of 5 Lootas.
-Added a second unit of deff-koptas (x2 with twin-linked rokkits).
-Brought troop choice #5 to 12 boyz from 11.

That brought my list to 1846. Not much to do with 4 points. Could drop a boy from troop 5 again to give me 10 points...but nothing to spend it on. Gave Ghazghkull an ammo runt, brought me to 1,849.

Once again Dash, your ork codex talk confuses me. You say rams and planks are required gear, but you only have rams on your trukks.

Glad you got some more deffkopters in, the other one should last longer and do its job better.

You still need bosspoles though. You need 20 points to get those - drop a burna boy?

Dashofpepper wrote:Added a unit of 5 Lootas.

I think you forgot to type those into the list. The points may be spent, but they aren't on your army list on the first page.

Carnuss, read on...

*edit*

Mercer, that was a typo, I apologize.

I've had and always had boarding planks on my trukk - didn't realize I forgot to type them out.

Dashofpepper wrote:Carnuss, read on...

Your power of hiding answers in plain sight is quite amazing.

The lootas have no cover save against self-loathing.

I'll be interested to hear how that small kommando band works for you. Every gaming pond is different and they've been effective for me, but I don't know the playstyles you will face. My guess is that Snikrot's suicide charge will still be fearsome and that 2 more turboboosting, twin-linked rokkits will help pick off the odd landspeeder, Chimera, etc.

Dashofpepper wrote:

I've had and always had boarding planks on my trukk - didn't realize I forgot to type them out.

Xeno trickery! . All you need to do is put bosspoles on and your sorted.

mercer wrote:Xeno trickery! .

Trickery? We call it "da kunnin' plan"!

DooDoo wrote:

number9dream wrote:Well, I think he's talking more about landspeeders or piranha's, not so much Raiders and Wave Serpents.

Exactly. I am talking about gakky landspeeders and throwaway rhinos make a series of road blocks to allow your opponent to get another round of shooting in. This is what that SW list can do because no individual unit is expensive. I just dont know what the counter is.

Can someone explain to me how mech orks counter this?

I'd personally homogenize the kopta squads and take 2 single kopta klaw squads, but that's more of a playstyle decision.
Does get you a few points to play with though, if you wanted something else. A few kommandos? 5 is quite small... I'd have cut to 10, myself.

DooDoo wrote:

DooDoo wrote:

number9dream wrote:Well, I think he's talking more about landspeeders or piranha's, not so much Raiders and Wave Serpents.

Exactly. I am talking about gakky landspeeders and throwaway rhinos make a series of road blocks to allow your opponent to get another round of shooting in. This is what that SW list can do because no individual unit is expensive. I just dont know what the counter is.

Can someone explain to me how mech orks counter this?

They don't.

At least using the definition of "mech orks" used around here.

DooDoo wrote:

DooDoo wrote:

number9dream wrote:Well, I think he's talking more about landspeeders or piranha's, not so much Raiders and Wave Serpents.

Exactly. I am talking about gakky landspeeders and throwaway rhinos make a series of road blocks to allow your opponent to get another round of shooting in. This is what that SW list can do because no individual unit is expensive. I just dont know what the counter is.

Can someone explain to me how mech orks counter this?

Take a shooty element (lootas, kannons) and/or slap rokkits on everything and get a bunch of warbuggies are the two options I've seen suggested.

I'm gonna test the latter, as being able to run a purely KoS list would be fun, if not I'll give up and get lootas I guess.

i have been thinking about Rokkit Launcha on the trukk and well... i think i may just try it out my self. having 3 trukks with a give me about 1 S8 hit each turn. it dose not sounds like much but some long range shots could really help with out having to pay for a unit of lootas.

Kevin Nash wrote: They don't.

At least using the definition of "mech orks" used around here.

Then doesnt this mean that the list should be changed.

DooDoo wrote:

DooDoo wrote:

number9dream wrote:Well, I think he's talking more about landspeeders or piranha's, not so much Raiders and Wave Serpents.

Exactly. I am talking about gakky landspeeders and throwaway rhinos make a series of road blocks to allow your opponent to get another round of shooting in. This is what that SW list can do because no individual unit is expensive. I just dont know what the counter is.

Can someone explain to me how mech orks counter this?

It varies by player, but there certainly are solutions. My particular solution revolves around ramming them with deff rollas, of which I carry 3 in my list. Since skimmers dodge 2/3 of ramming attempts, it means I will sometimes need to lose one turn of assaults to the wall, and wait for the next turn, when combined with the grabbin' klaws that are now parked next to their skimmers. While I may not get them all, I'll definitely open a hole within the next turn.

Skimmers dodging rams is problematic, but the other walls formed just don't stand up to D6 S10 hits. They fold, and let me in, which is exactly what I want them to do, and I rarely even bring cookies as a housewarming gift as I run in the front door.

That said, a lot of groups won't allow you to ram with a deff rolla, so that solution doesn't convey well. Dash's method, per his previous threads, is to use boarding planks, which I use as well because they do indeed cut through the nonsense and get vehicles out of your way. You may be hitting on 4s or 6s depending on how far they moved, but he has 7 power klaws assaulting the vehicles. That's 31 klaw attacks, which even when hitting on 6s will still make quite a few vehicles drive off to Valhalla.

Doesnt using a plank to destroy a skimmer cost you a movement phase? If so, hasnt the delaying tactic been successful? As I said, the road blocks are expendable as are their contents.

Yes, they have delayed you 1 turn. However, in a mech heavy environment, that's not uncommon anyway you slice it. I mean, your boyz wouldn't get out to assault a bunch of rhinoes that had guys in them, as they'd just be set up to get counter assaulted. Regardless of whether there are peeps lined up behind vehicles, inside vehicles, or under vehicles, you've got to deal with the vehicles on an opposing mech list. Them's the facts.

Mech orks excel at handing hordes of weaklings shuffling about with nothing blocking the assault. These guys really don't have a good answer to mech orks other than shoot and pray that vehicles disappear before they fulfill their role as 'power klaw conveyance mechanisms'.

Mech orks do very well at eliminating other mechanized armies, though they lose a turn to vehicle demolition.

for heavy lifting or anti armor, i go with nob bikers and powerclaws. currently i run 6 bikers (3 pk, 3bc) with a warboss kitted with bosspole, atk squig pk. add a painboy and cybork bodys, and youve now got a fast moving 4+ cover/armor, with fnp and 2 wounds each, AND 5+ invuns. its a pricey unit, but ive seen it absoarb dual landraider fire, as well as massed bolter rounds and just about anything else. if they hit a vehicle, its dead....no if ands or buts about it. (12 str 9 powerclaws, and 6 str 10 powerclaws hitting rear armor) they dont fare too well against massed infantry, but thats what the boyz are for anyway. should the enemy tanks move flatout away from you, thats fine cause then they dont shoot.... in anycase, here is my 1850 pt tourney list that ive used to great sucsess.

warboss w/ cybork, eavy armor, atk squig, bosspole, twin linked shoota, powerclaw.

warboss w/bike, cybork body, powerclaw, atk squig, bosspole

troops:
10 nobs 1/powerclaw, 4 w/ big choppas, 1 painboy. 1 w/ waggh banner

7 nobs on bikes, 3 with powerclaws, 3 with big choppas 1 painboy. 1 w/ waggh banner

4x 12x boys, nob w/powerclaw bosspole in trukk w/ grot riggers, rams and plates

1 trukk with grot riggers, plates and ram.

the warboss and nobs on foot go in last trukk. send all trukks up the gut, and the bikers up the flank. charge on turn 2 - maybe 3.bikers hit enemy armor, warboss on foot hits whatever hq/ beefy unit the enemy has, boyz suport and mob everything else. trukks have rams to negate terrain, and riggers to fix immobilized, and plates to help reduce stunned shots. failing a good shot, and a crappy ramshackle roll, your trukks will be moving to within charge range turn 2, and the only way to stop it is by wrecking them. (and rolling 1-2 on ramshackle) other point, is that EVERYTHING except the warbosses are troops choices, so can claim/contest. be prepared for the "cheese! crys" though.

Oh, and Dash - I notice one blaring error. Please change your location on your profile from "in 'ur list picking it apart" to "in my list picking it apart"

The vehicle roadblock/speed bump is a viable tactic for slowing down the ork sledgehammer. As already discussed there are a few ways to counter, each with its own chances and odds. Not going to lie; it can be a longshot to break, which is why it's a viable tactic.

I'm assuming that in this scenario you can't just GO AROUND the vehicle for some reason (impassible terrain, etc.) and have to burst through a choke point. Ideally, you will not allow yourself to hit a choke point, but some tables inevitably create one and if you run into a player with an expendable rhino or speeder, it could be annoying. But if you can go around (and remember, you should have rams/deffrollas to reroll difficult terrain, so going right through terrain should not be much of a concern), do so and ignore the problem.

Deffrolla
If your group allows, deffrollas eliminate most non-skimmer threats with ease. Skimmers, with the damn 3+ dodge, can get weedy and thus you can count on this.

Ramming
If you can get some momentum, a S5 + distance bonus ram can also be a viable solution. Again, skimmers can annoy with the dodge.

Tankbustas
Enough assault S8 guns firing out of a battlewagon can clear out most targets short of a landraider. I usually have a unit in a BW for higher point games. Glory Hogs rarely means anything as they are there to shoot vehicles.

Killakannon
Large blast overcomes bad ballistic skill. I often have the tankbusta battlewagon sport the killakannon, as 12 tankbustas is still enough. KK is ordinance, so even though it is only S7, you get to roll 2d6 and pick the highest for armor penetration, so odds are with you.

Deffkoptas
I usually have at least 2 deffkoptas (usually at least one with buzzsaw) running around with TL rokkits to pick off/assault vehicle targets. Anything you can do to eliminate vehicles in turns 1-2 help prevent the roadblock.

Warbuggies
A 3-buggy unit with TL Rokkits costs only 105 points and makes a decent sidecar to the convoy. If enemy wants to shoot them, takes fire off BW and trukks, which is ok, and if they don't you have 3 TL rokkit shots as you approach.

Lootas/Big Guns
If you have Loota support, they can clear the way. Most pure mech lists don't have lootas, but it's worth mentioning, if only for experimentation. A good-sized loota unit will shred any transport but a landraider in a single salvo. Same goes for big guns support, but even less likely to see these than lootas.

Dakkaguns
If you're running bikers, 3 twin-linked big shoota shots per bike can wipe out smaller skimmers. Wazzdakka's S8 Assault 4 version can even shoot while turboboosting.

Flash Gitz
S6, Assault 2 guns can lay the hurt on light vehicles, but you will rarely find a reason to take flash gitz.

Zogwort/Warphead
Two chances at either Frazzle or Zzap, both of which autohit at S6 or S10 (Melta) can help.

Snikrot's Kommandos
This is a bit of a stretch, but if you have Snikrot, sometimes he arrives in time to distract the enemy and maybe kill a vehicle that could roadblock. Don't count on it or buy him with this intent; it's just (rarely) useful in this regard.

Burnas/Skorchas
A possible, though desperate, solution against the light skimmer (landspeeder) threat. Burna templates always hit, ignore cover. Toss 15 over the side and try to glance the thing on 6s. An immobilized result at least doesn't let it dodge AND lets you auto-hit with PKs. Against the Storm (open-topped) you can destroy it outright. Alternatively, if you have some kombi-skorchas in a nob unit, you might try them here with S5 increasing your chances at a glance/pen.

If all else fails... PK the S.O.B.
This is why you have boarding planks, grabbin' klaws, and Power Klaws (or Tankhammers). Absorb the round of shooting, but the threat should be gone.

So, lots of "options," but most not as practical as simply having the PKs on the ready and taking the round of shooting. At least if you have deffkoptas/Snikrot/other running about, you can pick off some things in the periphery and maybe alleviate some of the damage you will take. Or just hope to get lucky with KFF and/or armor penetration rolls.

Personally, I haven't run into the roadblock much. Much more common is facing another tight mechanized column and having to crack the nut, usually with a skilled player only giving me shots at AV14 or AV13. In those cases, I tend to ignore the landraider and pick off his buddies as quickly as possible. And for this reason, I've been running the killakannon a little more often, as a clustered armor column is juicy pickings for a large blast to crack 2-3 rhinos/razorbacks in a single go.

If Snikrot with only 5 kommandoes works, and i'd imagine it would against gunlines, where hes most useful anyway will still go down( Guard?) But test it first because most people use 10-15 to be effective i've never seen or used 5.

If hes good enough, great. Deffcopts can do suicide runs to possibly kill a tank or two early on. I ran off a guard squad on the first turn the other day with one.