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Yeah burnas are good and wiping bugs off your windsheilds, also i have ad good experience with deffkopta bigg bombs

Dashofpepper wrote:I keep a squad of burnas in my army now, and it turns into the primary killing unit when I play against tyranids.

A single round of shooting will annihilate all the gargoyles. In assault, they will wipe the floor with your swarm lord - 15 point power weapons; if he kills 5 of them with his 5 attacks, the other 10 burnas will take 30 attacks needing 5+ to hit, 6 to wound, and if you tie them in with a trukk boy mob assaulting....the swarmlord is gonna bite it.

I've got Ghazghkull and a squad of burnas in my army; tyranids don't scare me. The doom is nasty....very nasty, but he's T4 no matter what and can be insta-killed easily enough.

I dont understand a Thing:
5+ to hit and 6 to wound !!! It´s not easy to achieve...
there should be a better way to handle with it ! i dont have the new nid codex, so i cant look the swarmlord but must have a better way to deal with him!

DEFFROLLA.

Loota spam might work to shoot him off the table. A squad of 15 given two turns to shoot will on average get 60 shots of which 20 will wound and 6.67 wounds will be caused. Now that is just average and we all know the sometimes you'll roll ones both turns. But even if they do 4 wounds then that last one should be easy to take off even with trukk boyz.

Norade wrote:Loota spam might work to shoot him off the table. A squad of 15 given two turns to shoot will on average get 60 shots of which 20 will wound and 6.67 wounds will be caused. Now that is just average and we all know the sometimes you'll roll ones both turns. But even if they do 4 wounds then that last one should be easy to take off even with trukk boyz.

The OP said that there was a tervigon nearby giving the swarmlord FNP, so half any potential loota wounds.

I've only had to face a swarmlord once, but it wasn't that big a deal. He is tough, but he is as prone to multi-assaults as anything else in the game.

I caught him in a position near some gaunts, so I assaulted him first with a group of boyz, making sure that my nob was on his guard, not on the swarmlord.

Then I rammed Ghazkull's group into the side of his unit and roped in a unit of gaunts into the combat. GT's attacks went into the guard, while his group dumped most of their attacks into the gaunts.

Then I unloaded some trukk boyz on the other side of him roping another group of gaunts into the battle. This time, the sole aim was to get more dead gaunts mixed into the battle for combat resolution.

The net result was 3 dead guard and 30 dead gaunts vs. a few dead orks, and the Swarmlord had to make ~24 saves, going poof as he realized he didn't have 8 spare wounds to lose. I put absolutely nothing at risk, as all the swarmlord could hit was 6 point boyz, of which he killed 3. My friend refuses to field the Swarmlord after that incident.

EDIT: I should make it clear that the reason the nobs and such attacked the guard was specifically to deny him any opportunity for wound allocation. Before you ask, yes, I realize the swarmlord can't target my nob when in an assault with boyz, as he is an upgrade unit. Once the guard are dead, all combat resolution wounds are placed on the sole remaining model, and he is more likely to die from 24 auto wounds than he is from 12, 8, or 6.

I find that for most toughness 6 creatures, which the tyranid codex has plenty of, it is usually easier to wound them with combat resolution than it is with butcher knives.

Weight of fire or low ap is the answer, since orks lack ap then weight of fire. Use lootas to put the wounds on the swarmlord or take off the guard from afar. The loota's need 3's to wound so the swarmlord and hive guard should take some serious wounds.

Then assault what is left with power klaws or fire rokkits.

Droofus wrote:

Norade wrote:Loota spam might work to shoot him off the table. A squad of 15 given two turns to shoot will on average get 60 shots of which 20 will wound and 6.67 wounds will be caused. Now that is just average and we all know the sometimes you'll roll ones both turns. But even if they do 4 wounds then that last one should be easy to take off even with trukk boyz.

The OP said that there was a tervigon nearby giving the swarmlord FNP, so half any potential loota wounds.

Then nail that first, before hitting the Swarmlord. Though if you only have one loota squad in today's heavy mech environment you might have other worries. Other things that can hurt the Swarmlord would obviously be rokkits and cannons. If you WAAGH! you can start from outside of Paroxism range and charge in, Nob Bikers can also do the same even without. There are ways, but many of them require a good setup to pull off.

Broken Loose wrote:DEFFROLLA.

QFT

You're going to want 3 battlewagons with deffrollas now anyway, since the FAQ made that your main anti-tank. Deffrollas hurt everything in the nid list a lot.

Flavius Infernus wrote:

Broken Loose wrote:DEFFROLLA.

QFT

You're going to want 3 battlewagons with deffrollas now anyway, since the FAQ made that your main anti-tank. Deffrollas hurt everything in the nid list a lot.

Tyranids don't care much about the new deffrolla ruling; in fact, we're laughing at it. Now everybody feels the pain we feel when we see battlewagons.


Seriously, don't try to assault Swarmlord. Don't try to shoot him. Just stay 18" away from him and you'll be fine. If you HAVE to confront him, deffrolla him.

Swarmlord costs more than 2 deffrolla-equipped battlewagons and is limited to one per army.

If Swarmlord is dumb enough to DoG the wagon, he's probably dead and you probably don't care.

Worst case scenario, if he lives through a deffrolla, ROLL ANOTHER ONE OVER HIM. Deffrollas are a seriously win-win anti-Tyranid scenario. Carnifexes have a single chance to roll a 4+ on the damage chart (supposing they don't botch the penetration roll) and they still take 2D6 hits. Zoanthropes will die horribly if they fail any of the saves, and if they attempt to blow up the wagon they risk even more S10 hits.


Even better, you can put things in a battlewagon that might come in handy later.

Norade wrote:

Droofus wrote:

Norade wrote:Loota spam might work to shoot him off the table. A squad of 15 given two turns to shoot will on average get 60 shots of which 20 will wound and 6.67 wounds will be caused. Now that is just average and we all know the sometimes you'll roll ones both turns. But even if they do 4 wounds then that last one should be easy to take off even with trukk boyz.

The OP said that there was a tervigon nearby giving the swarmlord FNP, so half any potential loota wounds.

Then nail that first, before hitting the Swarmlord. Though if you only have one loota squad in today's heavy mech environment you might have other worries. Other things that can hurt the Swarmlord would obviously be rokkits and cannons. If you WAAGH! you can start from outside of Paroxism range and charge in, Nob Bikers can also do the same even without. There are ways, but many of them require a good setup to pull off.

No doubt. Killing the tervigon first was essentially my advice.

A Deffrolla will get you, on average, a wound. Maybe on the Swarmlord, maybe on the guard. He won't DoG, assuming he's not an idiot.

Rokkits seem like a good idea, especially if you can whittle down the gaunt screen enough to catch them out of cover.

If he's supporting it with a Tervigon, shoot whichever of the two doesn't have FnP.

Swarmlord will still get a save from the deffrolla and can be allocated to a tyrant guard. Deth rolla is not ideal.

Use weight of fire power from loots, as previously mentioned. See if the swarmlord can make 6 3+ saves. He's going to do go down, in time. Failing that fire ap3 rokkits and he'll get no save.

i agree with the guy who posted after my first post

Zogwort would be perfect to take him out. Stick with a squad of boyz and just keep attempting his psychic test to turn him into a squig. Should be extremely potent with all those MC's walking around

Zogwort can't use his power on monstrous creatures. It is specific to independent characters, so how would Zogwort help?

Also, I see a lot of advocates for lootas. Just be aware, it would take a massive amount of shots to put a swarmlord's group out quickly? A unwounded full group of lootas, on average, is going to fire 30 shots per turn, and hit with only 10. Against toughness 6, they'll wound 6.666 times, and the mobs will save 2/3 of those, so you only do 2.222 wounds. You would need 2 full rounds of 3 full groups pounding on the group to have a reasonable chance of putting down the swarmlord's unit. Not to say that that isn't doable, but the goal has to be clear, and the number have to be available.

And as stated before, if a tervigon is placing FNP on the swarmlord, focus on the tervigon instead. By those same numbers, you'll kill 1 tervigon per turn of fire with 3 groups of lootas, and should not be focusing on T6 monstrous creatures that are halving your chance of wounding.

While lootas are a nice catch all answer, and everybody loves deff guns, be aware that a single group of tank bustas will consistently hit 5 times, and wound 4.2 times, ignoring armor saves. So tank bustas are arguably twice as good as lootas for this role, hold the same spot in your FoC, cost the same, and are more effective at eliminating enemy vehicles for all comers lists. They don't kill infantry hordes or TEQs with quite the same efficiency as lootas, but are approximately as good at killing MEQs.

A mass assault on the swarmlord would be required. Two units of lootas fire and hopefully take out the guard or pop wounds on the swarmlord. Fire rokkits for no saves (hopefully) and then assault and use the boyz to take the wounds and use the nobz with power klaws hopefully to put wounds on.

Broken Loose wrote: Carnifexes have a single chance to roll a 4+ on the damage chart (supposing they don't botch the penetration roll) and they still take 2D6 hits. .

Why do they take 2d6 hits?

GG

because the rules for the deffrolla say any unit tank shocked by it takes D6 Str 10 hits, if a Death or glory is attempted the unit takes another D6 str 10 hits

Grey Templar wrote:because the rules for the deffrolla say any unit tank shocked by it takes D6 Str 10 hits, if a Death or glory is attempted the unit takes another D6 str 10 hits

Since BW are open topped If it can pen as long as it doesn't roll a two (weapon destroyed it either stops or wrecks the BW and with it's S and being a MC it'll most likely pen.

not all BWs will be OT, some have "Ard" cases

It will have to roll a 4, 5, or 6 to avoid being killed. DoG is not a wise decision for MCs to preform. too risky and it will take the Str 10 hits either way.

Grey Templar wrote:because the rules for the deffrolla say any unit tank shocked by it takes D6 Str 10 hits, if a Death or glory is attempted the unit takes another D6 str 10 hits

Thanks.

GG

Sure thing

Quick question? Anybody tankshocked by a deff rolla can still make standard armor saves or no?

Yep, Deffrollas don't ignore saves. One of the reasons they're not nearly as OP as many people seem to think.

Yes they can.

It seems the best solutions thus far.

1. rokkit spam (my lists need more rokkits I've decided anyway so next time I'll try this out)

2. weight of fire (which requires a total rethink of my own list since you need about 45 lootaz to do it and even then need the tervigon dead first)

3. Force him to make saves from a multi-charge combat (considering the way my opponent runs his swarmlord, this seems impossible to pull off as there are no gaunts nearby except the 10 assault screening the tervigon but if the opportunity arises I'll try it out)

4. Ignore it (which was my present stratagy and should work most of the time)


Obviously zogwort's power doesn't work, charging him with a load of boyz won't work (unless you can get 60 boyz into assault range at once or have already stripped 3 wound s and his guard) and deffrollas not only won't work but are much better utilised squishing t4 multi-wound stuff, of which there is an abundance in the nid dex these days.

Waaaa banner is only available for Nobs and Nob bikers, not meganobs.

WS4 Mega nobs need a 5+ to hit.

A decked out squad of 10 nobs/biker nobz is going to be between 500-700.

Half of them will die if they charge the swarmlord + bonesword armed gaurds before they get off their klaw attacks. They probably won't kill it in 1 turn, which means another 3-4 will die in the next turn.

Mathhammer for the Tankbustas: 15 shots=5 hits=4 and 1/6 wounds with no saves. That's a lot better than loosing half a 700 point squad in CC.

The other way to handle the swarmlord is to ignore it until it charges a cheap unit that won't break in 1 round of CC.

Swarmlord against 20 boys. It shouldn't do more than 9 wounds. That's enough for the boys to be fearless, and take fearless wounds. Next turn charge it with 10 nobz and the swarmlord must continue to attack the boyz for 1 turn giving the nobz a free turn of swings against the swarmlord.

The swarmlord would be free to swing into the nobs, if the nobs were in base contact. Unless you mean that you would pull casualties from the tyrant guard, and then only the tyrant guard would be exposed. I dont think that will work though, as you counter attack 6 inches, and then consolidate 6 inches, meaning if you gave that much open space for nobs to get into base with the smaller tyrant guard base, you probably cheated your 12 inch pile in moves.

Killed this thing with diversified nobz last night. Multi-charge if at all possible a squad of 'gaunts to force fearless saves.

Isnt there a rule that, when a unit charges one of your units, and you counter-charge next turn with one of your units, the enemy can only strike at the unit it initially charged? If so, pull that on a swarmlord! Counter-charge with a unit of nobz with 4 p.k's, after he has charged a unit of 30 boyz, and watch him die.

Warboss Gutrip wrote:Isnt there a rule that, when a unit charges one of your units, and you counter-charge next turn with one of your units, the enemy can only strike at the unit it initially charged? If so, pull that on a swarmlord! Counter-charge with a unit of nobz with 4 p.k's, after he has charged a unit of 30 boyz, and watch him die.

Apparently there is.

I hadn't realised that.

Oh, that is nasty. Let him eat boyz for 2 turns and then chuck my nobz at him, yes that should definitely do the trick.

crap math off the top of my head if I can get my full nob squad (detailed in the op I believe) on the charge (and they can't be attacked) then even if he has his full squad remaining.

mad dok should do 1 wound, other nobz should do 2.1something so about 3 wound of which 1 will be saved.
Klaws do 3 wounds if he allocates to the t-guard and 1.5 if he allocates to the swarmy. That's all the t-guard dead in one go and more damage if the t-guard of the swarmy have already taken wounds (which is likely if they've been fighting a boyz squad for 2 rounds).

That looks eminently workable.