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For 750?

Librarian, Null Zone, Avenger - 100

5 Tac Marines, Razorback - 130
5 Tac Marines, Razorback - 130

Dreadnought with MM - 105

Predator with autocannon & HBs - 85
Predator with autocannon & HBs - 85
Predator with autocannon & HBs - 85

You've now got 8 heavy bolters, three autocannons, and a walker with a MM for heavy armor (what heavy armor?) duty and counterassault. Just blow the opposition off the table while your little clown cars drive around to objectives.

You make it sound so easy, Sourclams. If only his opponents are so cooperative.

For a 750 list actually, it isn't that bad. You get 24 shots from the Predators, 3 from the Dreadnought (MM & Storm Bolter), 3 shots from 1 Razorback, and 1, possibly more from the Librarian with the Template attacking Avenger.

Only thing I'd do differently is make 1 full 10 man Tact squad, so he can take Assault and Heavy Weapons. You'll only be able to take 1 Razorback, but if you combat squad the Heavy Weapon carrier into one group, with the Assault Weapon carrier and Sgt into another, you can have the Heavy Weapon hang back and shoot from far, and put the Assault weapon carrier into the Razorback.

With the 40 extra points from the second Razorback, you could invest them into a Power Fist for the Sgt, a Meltagun for the Assault Weapon carrier, and even a Lascannon for the Heavy carrier.

Good luck!

And not have a legal list because you need 2 troops.

No one has mentioned scouts. they are a good way to get the body count up in smaller games

A good 750 point list.

HQ

Librarian, Terminator armor and Storm shield


Troops

5 man scout squad, Sniper rifles, missile launcher and teliport homer

5 man scout squad, Bolt pistols and CCWs, Power weapon and teliport homer

5 man scout squad, Bolt pistols and CCWs, Power weapon


Fast attack

Land Speeder Storm with multi-melta

Land Speeder Storm


Elites

Assault terminator squad


This list is 750 points exactly.

This list can get a first turn assault with the LSSs and scouts with BPs and CCWs. the terminators can DS in to support the Scouts (aided by the Homer) and can take out any armor that may be present.

The snipers can sit on objectives and snipe enemy infantry aided by the ML which can take out vehicles if needed.

sourclams wrote:For 750?

Librarian, Null Zone, Avenger - 100

5 Tac Marines, Razorback - 130
5 Tac Marines, Razorback - 130

Dreadnought with MM - 105

Predator with autocannon & HBs - 85
Predator with autocannon & HBs - 85
Predator with autocannon & HBs - 85

You've now got 8 heavy bolters, three autocannons, and a walker with a MM for heavy armor (what heavy armor?) duty and counterassault. Just blow the opposition off the table while your little clown cars drive around to objectives.

Best list posted in this thread, but seems pretty boring.

Best list posted in this thread, but seems pretty boring.

Far from best actually.

Enlighten me...

Since when are 5 naked space marines good for anything on the table. What possibly can they do?
You dont pay 90 freaking points for the honour to be able to take a 50-70p razorback, that is well...LOL.

Pyriel- wrote:Since when are 5 naked space marines good for anything on the table. What possibly can they do?
You dont pay 90 freaking points for the honour to be able to take a 50-70p razorback, that is well...LOL.

they are a scoring unit that is mobile, and has a heavy weapon that can shoot on the move, I dont see how they are bad.

in that list they have 40 point razorbacks, not 50-70 points, so 130 points total for the unit+transport. Although not an ideal unit, it fits well in a small game that marines stuggle with.

the 5 naked marines are not meant to do anything but camp on objectives.

Grey Templar wrote:

This list is 750 points exactly.

This list can get a first turn assault with the LSSs and scouts with BPs and CCWs. the terminators can DS in to support the Scouts (aided by the Homer) and can take out any armor that may be present.

The snipers can sit on objectives and snipe enemy infantry aided by the ML which can take out vehicles if needed.

My list will blow this one off the table. If your Scouts don't first-turn-assault (into what? A tank?) they get blown off the table, and if they do first turn assault they get wiped out by 10 Tacticals and a Dreadnought. Either way your Terminators lose their teleport homers. In a shooting match, sniper Scouts can't stop transports, three Preds and a Dread trump easily trump two BS3 Speeders, only one of which can threaten armor, and the Assault Terminators die to massed heavy bolter fire as they try... to... slowly... plod... across... the... table...

- Unnecessary personal attack removed -

Pyriel- wrote:Since when are 5 naked space marines good for anything on the table. What possibly can they do?
You dont pay 90 freaking points for the honour to be able to take a 50-70p razorback, that is well...LOL.

If you can't see the value of 5 marines in a transport for 750 games, then that says something about your tactical acumen(sp?). I stand by my statement, a very good list, but somewhat boring

Illumini wrote:If you can't see the value of 5 marines in a transport for 750 games, then that says something about your tactical acumen(sp?). I stand by my statement, a very good list, but somewhat boring

Correct. Like you're saying, what else are marines supposed to do in 750pt games?

It would be an uphill fight vs certain armies that perform very well in low point games.

Well for one thing, I am shocked that no one has mentioned using the TFC yet. For 100 pts apiece you can lay some serious hurt down, especially against those horde armies you are playing. I would say your list should be something like this:

HQ:
Captain+Relic Blade
Troops:
Tactical Squad, Flamer, ML
Rhino
Tactical Squad, Flamer, HB
Rhino
Heavy Support:
Thunderfire Cannonx2
Total: 750

that is close to the one I posted on the army list link

edit: okay I think this is a pretty competitive all comers list that takes a different tack (and this is a fun exercise, thanks!)

librarian with machine curse and avenger (really! They will probably only have 1 or 2 vehicles and you can negate its shooting really easily and the flamer will be good from the back of a rhino)
2 thunderfire cannons for the above reason
predator with lascannon sponsons
tac squad in rhino with combimelta
tac squad in rhino with combimelta

idk people keep posting lists with missle launchers in their rinos, they cant fire heavy weps when they exit the vehical to rapidfire, meltas are much better at tank bashing anways

JEB_Stuart wrote:Well for one thing, I am shocked that no one has mentioned using the TFC yet. For 100 pts apiece you can lay some serious hurt down, especially against those horde armies you are playing. I would say your list should be something like this:

HQ:
Captain+Relic Blade
Troops:
Tactical Squad, Flamer, ML
Rhino
Tactical Squad, Flamer, HB
Rhino
Heavy Support:
Thunderfire Cannonx2
Total: 750

Still loses to the list I posted. May do better against certain hordes, but not going to be as successful against all comers.

To the OP.

Play bigger games and your issue will fade away. Every army has that sweet spot were they perform best at at certain point ranges. Marines have a tough time at love point games. Get up to 1500 and things even out pretty well.

Being an elite army there neat toys cost alot and you cant really squeeze them in at lower games.

epil wrote:idk people keep posting lists with missle launchers in their rinos, they cant fire heavy weps when they exit the vehical to rapidfire, meltas are much better at tank bashing anways

I agree. Especially if you throw 'em in a Rhino - I've found that oftentimes (depending on who you're playing against, obviously) it can be very, very effective to stick two meltaguns in a squad and speed the squad around in a Rhino. Get them close, pop out of the Rhino if you absolutely have to, and melt(a) some face.

Locclo wrote:

epil wrote:idk people keep posting lists with missle launchers in their rinos, they cant fire heavy weps when they exit the vehical to rapidfire, meltas are much better at tank bashing anways

I agree. Especially if you throw 'em in a Rhino - I've found that oftentimes (depending on who you're playing against, obviously) it can be very, very effective to stick two meltaguns in a squad and speed the squad around in a Rhino. Get them close, pop out of the Rhino if you absolutely have to, and melt(a) some face.

Except Vanilla Marines can't have MGx2.

sourclams wrote:Still loses to the list I posted. May do better against certain hordes, but not going to be as successful against all comers.

A few things, 1) The ability to change the heavy weapons, and not just stick with what is listed is extremely valuable, 2) Spamming units like you are is very, very cheesy and a surefire way to stop enjoying friendly games, 3)The list is great, you are throwing out a minimum of 8 templates every turn, that will put the hurt on every army. The two TFC's will on average deal more wounds then the three tanks because of their multiple templates. The list presented is a handle all comers list, and I have used it to great effect in many games, against many armies.

I find it a hard uphill battle to win with Marines because so many army builds are put together to be anti-meq. Odd that you play these points as I thought 1500pts was almost law

In 750pts, I'd do as above and keep it dull but mobile. Landraiders will survive well at this points cost, though I would go for the Redeemer or Crusader everyday considering the poor shots-per-point cost of the standard pattern. The more armour you can get on the table the better, and Razorbacks will work well with 5-man tac squads as they allow them to move and shoot a heavy weapon.

I can't help you with the Daemon Prince as I find them difficult enough to deal with at 1500pts, given that I often face 2-4 of them But the Libby should make them cry from what I have been told.

JEB_Stuart wrote:

sourclams wrote:Still loses to the list I posted. May do better against certain hordes, but not going to be as successful against all comers.

A few things, 1) The ability to change the heavy weapons, and not just stick with what is listed is extremely valuable, 2) Spamming units like you are is very, very cheesy and a surefire way to stop enjoying friendly games, 3)The list is great, you are throwing out a minimum of 8 templates every turn, that will put the hurt on every army. The two TFC's will on average deal more wounds then the three tanks because of their multiple templates. The list presented is a handle all comers list, and I have used it to great effect in many games, against many armies.

I'm not trying to "disprove" your personal success with the list, but this is a discussion on competitive merit and such things can be quantified in 40k:

1.) You're talking about a total of two heavy weapons in the entire list.

2.) Aside from my personal belief that cheese doesn't exist, only good lists and bad lists, the Dark Eldar player with 6 bright lances and 6 plasma cannons in a 750 list scoffs at this very notion. It's difficult to "cheese out" Space Marines at 750 because they're so generic.

3.) Put your list up against my list. You have a single missile launcher that can do better than glance my vehicles. I have 8 heavy bolters, 3 autocannons, and a multimelta that can wreck your AV10-11 vehicles. Your list loses on fundamental principle. Your list is remarkably effective at blowing large groupings of infantry models off of the table, but it suffers against anything else. Mine doesn't. In short, you've got a great list against bad lists and a bad list against great lists. I've got a good list against anything.

Hmm, my 2 second list would be the following, not crazy competitive, just working with what I have:

Captain, Bike, Relic Blade.
8 Bikers, 2 Meltas, Fist, Hvy Bolter Attack Bike.
5 Scouts, ML.
2 Hvy Bolter Attack Bikes.
2 Multi-Melta Attack Bikes.

If you can't see the value of 5 marines in a transport for 750 games, then that says something about your tactical acumen(sp?). I stand by my statement, a very good list, but somewhat boring

LOL

Correct. Like you're saying, what else are marines supposed to do in 750pt games?

It would be an uphill fight vs certain armies that perform very well in low point games.

I usually dont take advice seriously from a guy who things las preds are a very good choice vs nids.

Wow, some very interesting lists here.

@Sourclams, your list, while ubber killy, doesn't leave much in the way of capturing objectives. It seems as though you've gone the route of objective denial rather than capturing. I feel as though a decent player would see this weak point in an objective based mission and my squads/razorbacks would be the first things to die. Once gone I could only hope to tie. A very strong list never the less, thank you.

Something to consider would be going with the Dark Angels codex if you're playing at low-point levels. They can take special weapons in small squads, and a Fearless Captain with Rites of Battle to give your scoring units some stiffer backbone.

sourclams wrote:1.) You're talking about a total of two heavy weapons in the entire list.

Well if you only count infantry then you are bringing none.

sourclams wrote:2.) Aside from my personal belief that cheese doesn't exist, only good lists and bad lists, the Dark Eldar player with 6 bright lances and 6 plasma cannons in a 750 list scoffs at this very notion. It's difficult to "cheese out" Space Marines at 750 because they're so generic.

No, when you spam something it become cheesy. If you run three Preds, you will get docked for comp in any tournament because it is cheesy. To put it simply Spam=Cheese.

sourclams wrote:3.) Put your list up against my list. You have a single missile launcher that can do better than glance my vehicles. I have 8 heavy bolters, 3 autocannons, and a multimelta that can wreck your AV10-11 vehicles. Your list loses on fundamental principle. Your list is remarkably effective at blowing large groupings of infantry models off of the table, but it suffers against anything else. Mine doesn't. In short, you've got a great list against bad lists and a bad list against great lists. I've got a good list against anything.

*Sigh* Did you read my comments at all? You can CHANGE your heavy weapon if you need too. I generally bring MMs, but alot of people don't care for them. You only have 10 marines with no heavy weapons or special weapons at all. Any competent player is going to pop your transports first, which they can and will with Krak Missiles, and then your two little squads are going to be footslogging it, and trying to hold objectives. In small points games it is always better to have more troops to ensure objectives. And since 2/3 of missions played are objectives based, that is an advantage. And if they really want to they can take off the extra armor on the rhinos and give both squads meltas, which would make it even better. With TFCs you will out range and outgun almost any army, and you can give yourself a 3+ cover save. Your list is fine don't get me wrong, but most people would consider it very, very cheesy.

IMO, outranging enemy guns is not as awesome as it sounds when the game board is limited to 4x6 and there are a multitude of ways to deploy ontot he game the essentially negates the 'awesome' range.

Sanctjud wrote:IMO, outranging enemy guns is not as awesome as it sounds when the game board is limited to 4x6 and there are a multitude of ways to deploy ontot he game the essentially negates the 'awesome' range.

Of course, if your guns just don't have any punch to go with the range, but that isn't the TFCs problem. Realistically, MEQs are at a huge disadvantage in any game under 1000 pts. They run expensive units and are always losing the numbers game. Horde armies have the advantage of numbers and you need to deal with them accordingly. Even against MEQs you are goin to want to be able to just put wounds on them. The key is to make people take armor saves. The more dice they roll, the more likely they are to fail a save.