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hey fafnir ive said before that im completely open to suggestions for fluff its my first try writing fluff and im 13 so if you are going to complane put up some damn suggestions dont just say worst you ever saw

Hey FF, Something you need to think about is balance. What role is this tank supposed to fill in the battle feild? How do my weapon choices work with each other? Is there something comparable in other armys and if there is what is its battlefeild function and useablity. Final note, would my opponent allow me to use this in game?
I seriously dont think GW is going to call any of us up and say "He we read your stuff, We want you to write our new codex!" So we will need our opponents consent to use these designs.

You have a hefty mix of weapons on this bad boy that all do diffrent jobs. While that is okay, your mix just dosent seem to well planned out.

First whitch weapon do you think of as your "Main Gun"?
I am going to assume its the TF cannon. Now this is a pretty good weapon and vehicle mounted should seriously kick some hynnie and survive on the battle feild.
Okay so we have our tank and its main gun, since we want this main gun to shoot every turn, then it is basicly going to be a hide in cover vehicle back in our deployment zone. So now we need to think about what can get us back there. So the twin assault cannons is a good choice for our defensive weapon, plus we can fire the TF cannon and PotMS can shoot the azzcannons(twin linked helps with the lower BS)
To this you have added hurricane bolters, what role do these fill? you already have the azzcannons for your defense so these become unnecissary.
Then you added a Whirlwind launcher. Yes this would work out great with you sitting in the back feild hammering away with these big guns while you troops move up. The problem is, it is an Ordinance weapon. You cant fire the WW Launcher with any other weapon since the LR dosent have the "Lumbering Monstrosity" rule. So now you have 2 big guns, that cant fire together, and Tons of defensive fire power that is useless unless you have enemys between mid range and close.
What you have here is a Tank to fufill many roles but cant actually do them together. So the added points you spend on it are wasted.

Here is what I would do if this was my tank. First I would make 2 tanks.

The Thunderhead with TF cannon and a twin-linked autocannon turret with heavy Flammer sponsons.
This gives me the big gun and if I sit still I can add some weathering fire power with the autocannons on the same squad, plus I have the heavy flammers for point defense(pretty good weapon for PotMS to be shooting).

Next the Whirlwind LR with WW launcher, twin heavy bolters and no side sponsons. Since you want to be shooting the whirlwind as much as possible, save the points on sponsons, since they will be useless. If you are still worried about point defense add a muti-melta or storm bolter(multi-melta would be better hahaha)

Okay so there you go 2 tanks, both should point out to somewhere around 260-280 or there about (or even less now that I think about it a bit) and both have a useful function on the battle feild. Plus the added bonus of my opponent not screeming "CHEESE!" and allowing me to put it on the table(hopefully).

Okay quick thing about your fluff. First rule of Fluff writing... Stay away from "Lost Primarchs", "Caught in Warpstorm/Lost in Warp for 2000 Years", "Emperors Secret Children" and Well know named Characters.
From your Fluff it seems that your DIY Chapter is related to the Ultramarines. I can see why you would want to use Marneus for this then. But think about it from a UltraMarine point of veiw. Marneus is in charge of both his chapter and a entire space sector. I dont think he would have much time to go off on a secret weapons development project, that didnt directly add to his Chapter. What if you changed it to "Working closely with the Mechanicus and UltraMarines TechMarines, this project was developed in secret for use with the Hidden chapter and the UltraMarines. Lets say your DIY chapter dosent have closse ties with the ADMech, so looked to their Founding Chapter for help and advice on how to exploit this new tank.

If you have any questions feel free to PM me. I am always willing to help work out fluff. 8)

Crunch wise, Nico is spot-on. It needs to have a specific role, but that's not what the post is about.

I think that the fluff could be better developed. Here's an idea. I don't know if you're going to paint it this way when you actually build the thing, but your second draft Whirlwind Missile Launcher is etched with the signature Iron Warriors safety bands. Looking at it again, the tank really seemed pretty Iron Warriors-y to me. Remember, these used to be the only Chaos Legion with access to the Demolisher Cannon, so it makes sense to me for them to grab a Land Raider, throw some sickeningly destructive firepower on it, and fill the cargo space with ammo for its massive guns.

So, here's an idea. It wasn't developed by a secret SM chapter. It was discovered during the destruction of an Iron Warriors fortress by the Ultramarines. Of course, one look at the thing, and Calgar says to the chapter's techmarines, "So, does it still run?" So it's had the chaos insignii taken off of it (although clearly, some parts remain), but maybe it has some sort of clearly chaos-inspired flaw. Just an idea.

Thing the third (and this is minor): If you've ever been on the You Make Da Call forum, you know that the reference to the hurricane bolter as "assault 3 rapid fire" would be dissected to death. For clarity's sake, please just call it three twin-linked bolters, fired as a single weapon, like in the SM codex.


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Actually on second thought there's probably no way a chapter as Codex Astartes-driven as the Ultramarines would borrow designs from a Traitor Legion, but maybe one of the more deviant chapters might. Flesh Tearers are a good candidate, but they're not much into long-range warfare. Then again, maybe it is at this very moments being used by an Ultra Marines successor chapter (Sons of Orar, perhaps? Those guys always seemed fishy to me) without the consent of Calgar or the AdMech. Maybe the fact that it's based off traitor designs is why the machine's use is such a closely guarded secret.

If you don't like that idea, the armament itself suggests a possible background. With a whirlwind, a TF cannon, and hurricane bolter (or heavy flamer) sponsons, this thing looks like it was designed as a tool for tearing a hole in light infantry-based armies. So maybe it was first built to fight the tyrannic wars on Macragge. The demolisher shells idea makes perfect sense, of course, because those would be there for dealing with bigger stuff like Hive Tyrants and Carnifex. Again, once you work out the role this beast is going to play on the battlefield, the flavor (especially issues like what it was built to do, and who's idea it was) tends to come into a much sharper focus.

thank you mek and nic your the first to give me ideas on fluff not just critisism i will get back to you with a new draft

fatherfear5 wrote:hey fafnir ive said before that im completely open to suggestions for fluff its my first try writing fluff and im 13 so if you are going to complane put up some damn suggestions dont just say worst you ever saw

Age is not an excuse, never use it as a crutch. Instead of saying 'I'm only 13, so it's okay,' worry about how to blow us away, regardless of your age.

@praxxis already been done
Land Raider Helios.
This seems like a cross between a crusader, helios and an ares to me.
bit jack of all trades.
But i can't read the text and am guessing from the picture

Fafnir wrote:

fatherfear5 wrote:hey fafnir ive said before that im completely open to suggestions for fluff its my first try writing fluff and im 13 so if you are going to complane put up some damn suggestions dont just say worst you ever saw

Age is not an excuse, never use it as a crutch. Instead of saying 'I'm only 13, so it's okay,' worry about how to blow us away, regardless of your age.

Faf, you're confusing "I'm young, and therefore not responsible for my mistakes" with "I'm young, and therefore would appreciate it if you would not act as though that I should know what I'm doing and give guidance rather than ridicule."

ok guys i havent posted in quite a while but now ive followed your suggestions and created the next draft but i have completely eliminated the fluff and asking for help in writing it because obviously im not very good at it (=

Fluff second try

I like this effort.

It gives a reason for the Thunder-head's existence and its probable battlefield rarity.

The weapons fit is still not my cup of tea (looks schizophrenic still) But that's why there is variety eh?

thank you and whats wrong with the wepouns ill change them if you want but also remmember it can have flamestorms or lascannons

fatherfear5 wrote:thank you and whats wrong with the wepouns ill change them if you want but also remmember it can have flamestorms or lascannons

I think I have tried to say the same thing before:

You have a long ranged weapon 60"+ (is that right for WW of Thunder Fire? cant remember.)as your main weapon - which implies a stand off role as an armoured fire base.
You also have close support weapon options - which negates a long range fire support role and infers and assault role.

Your sponson weapon choices should reflect the main role, and its main load out of Whirlwind/Thunderfire suggest that flamestorms and Hurricane bolters are poor fits.

If I'm using flamestorms then I am too close or I have allowed the enemy to get too close to me to fire ranged weapons and am wasting a very rare land raider varaiant

I rather like the new fluff, but I also think the weapons are a bit off. Like most others are suggesting, I would change the short range weapons the something longer ranged. I would suggest dropping the WW Launcher, and the Storm Bolters. Then, add on Twin Linked Assault-cannons, and sponson Heavy Bolters. This would give you a long range tank, that would completely destroy light infantry. And I THINK Assault-cannnons are rending, so it gives you a chance at killing big beasties too.

thank you for your suggestions heres my reasoning for the weapon layout (btw theres no ww luuncher) thunder fire is obvious, long range and assualt cannon is for taking out hive tyrants and such. and the sponsons if they are bolters or flamestorm are for any infintry that deepstrike or slip through

Blue Orphen wrote:No comment on the rules and point costs, but...

The whole fluff "background" is pretty ridiculous. A "Secret Chapter" that "Due to the secrecy of the chapter cannot be named"? Led by Marneus Calgar? That guy shows up everywhere nowadays. The rest is pretty bad too.

No offense intended, but it sounds like it was written by a 14 year old boy. Now, if you ARE a 14 year old boy, I guess that wouldn't be a bad thing.

I see that you are Canadian, so maybe English isn't your first language? If so, that would explain the grammar and spelling errors. If not, proofread! That makes things much easier to read.

Wow, I sound like a jerk.

the funny thing is other than the english not being the first language everything rings true


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fatherfear5 wrote:hey fafnir ive said before that im completely open to suggestions for fluff its my first try writing fluff and im 13 so if you are going to complane put up some damn suggestions dont just say worst you ever saw

you spelled COMPLAIN wrong!

For some fluff stuff, maybe say it was designed by the Imperial Fists? Although the concept of meeting a need where Vinidicators fail seems pretty logical.

You will probably find your fluff gets tanked by a lot of people because you are so young. Just keep at it, no matter how silly your fluff is at least you are attempting to be creative!


Didn't see the new fluff, much better

thank you

I think your new fluff is a great improvement.

As for the tank itself, I would remove the option of different sponsons. Land Raiders don't generally have interchangeable sponsons, as each set of weapons fills a specific battlefield role, hence the 'patterns'. Decide on how each weapon is going to contribute and stick with that set.

Since your new fluff suggests an anti-Tyranid horde role (light infantry backed up by monstrous creatures), I'm in favour of the thunderfire, twin assault cannons and sponson hurricanes. This allows the tank to keep mobile: moving 6", the tank can fire its assault cannons and hurricanes (S4, defensive weapons) at the infantry hordes, and use Machine Spirit to fire the thunderfire cannon at large targets or infantry. It's a good loadout and I'd stick with it. I don't think changing the hurricanes for lascannons or flamestorm cannons is appropriate.

I would give the option to replace the twin assault cannons with a multi-melta for free, and drop the whirlwind launcher entirely.

Also, it doesn't need both a siege shield and a dozer blade.

thank you very much ill get back with a new draft btw there is no ww launher


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i kinda like the flexability of having three different options its is helpful in more situations eg battle mission were evrything is cover flamestorm cannon ignores it or say he has 9 carnifexes lascannon. personally i magnetize everything

SORRY I DIDNT SEE THE WW STILL IN OPTIONS HERES THE NEXT DRAFT

well for the fluff what I would say is that the Dark angels made it because of their symbol on the dozer blade and their awesome thinking and modification skills. They have modified land raiders before to have demolisher cannons when Vindicators were to lightly armored and their need for more armor was great.

Other wise what you are making is close to the Land raider helios (straight from FW).

Nicorex wrote:The problem is, it is an Ordinance weapon. You cant fire the WW Launcher with any other weapon since the LR dosent have the "Lumbering Monstrosity" rule. So now you have 2 big guns, that cant fire together.

Ahh but it has a rule called POTM So you cn fire both if you stayed still.

I like it now that it is not stepping on the toes of the helios, but I would like the options of Hurricanes, Heavy Bolters, or Heavy Flamers - at least until playtesting was done. You could even call the different sponson loadouts Mark I, Mark II and Mark III to show that it is undergoing modification. Looks good.

Just a note, the hurrican bolter is not Assault 3. It is three twin linked boltguns fired together.

At first the idea seemed a little ridiculous, but after all the revisions I think it could be a legitimate tank to use

Have you tried amkign and playtesting it yet? After the any revisions i think it is just abotu there.

thank you all so much i really appreciate you roll on making this model better and building and playtesting will be done when i get money to build it

i like this LR variant. consider your idea borrowed by my demi legion

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:i like this LR variant. consider your idea borrowed by my demi legion

DID I SAY YOU COULD BORROW IT :@





JOKES EVERYONE CAN LOL THANK YOU I HOPE TO SEE LOTS OF THEM IN GAMES AROUND THE WORLD

I have to say FF5, you've taken comments and criticism with more tact than I think my 12-year old would have and (more importantly) you continued to update and progress your design and the story behind it.

I understand your desire to keep the tank capable of multi-tasking, but that's a rare ability for marine tanks, which are typically dedicated for a specific task. I think that's what most folks have trouble with when it comes to your design, but in a tyrannic war scenario, I imagine that having a big gun to snipe the tervigons and anti-horde to take out the gaunts it's spitting out is a good thing.

Good luck modelling once you get the necessary kits. I hear the TFC alone is enough to give veteran modellers an anyeurism. I hope you magnetize the weapons loadout so you can show us all the possible designs - there's a tutorial in the P&M Tutes that shows you how to do this for pretty much all the SM tanks.