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No, I'm not sick of Chimera's. I'm not sick of mechanized lists either. It's a game about war. War has tanks. You build lists to fit the game your playing. If you know your going to be fighting tanks, we'll pack the anti-tank weapons. Field tanks yourself.
Not to mention, just how cool they look on the battlefield. Like 40k players, the more the merrier I say.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I would like, I like less than half of you, half as well as you deserve".
Long have I waited to hear of people calling Chimeras cheesy and hard to beat. As an old guard player, your tears are so sweet!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Long have I waited to hear of people calling Chimeras cheesy and hard to beat. As an old guard player, your tears are so sweet!
Guard were undoubtedly one of the weakest armies out there pre-fifth edition. I went from the fluffy guard player to power gamer overnight...
Having said that, I actually don't like chimeras because they represent the one aspect of fifth edition I hate. Spam. This is a game of spam. Spamming chimeras, spamming obliterators, spamming jump pack troops, spamming wave serpents, and the list goes on. It's no longer about tactics so much as it is about overwhelming your opponents in a certain area. It's like 40k has become a much more expensive version of rock paper scissors. Balanced lists at tournament get hosed because inevitably they fight an extreme army that they can't deal with. So when building a list, I at least, always pick an extreme to deal with. Usually mech spam.
I wish there were more competitive builds within most armies. Guard are one of the more extreme examples. It is just so blatantly obvious which army to choose with guard.
-Any terrain containing Sly Marbo is dangerous terrain.
-Sly Marbo once played an objective mission just to see what it was like to not meet every victory condition on his own.
-Sly Marbo bought a third edition rulebook just to play meat grinder as the attacker.
-Marbo doesn't need an Eldar farseer as an ally; his enemies are already doomed
-Sly Marbo was originally armed with a power weapon, but he dropped it while assaulting a space marine command squad just so his enemies could feel pain
-Sly Marbo still attacks the front armor value in assault, for pity's sake.
Long have I waited to hear of people calling Chimeras cheesy and hard to beat. As an old guard player, your tears are so sweet!
Guard were undoubtedly one of the weakest armies out there pre-fifth edition. I went from the fluffy guard player to power gamer overnight...
Having said that, I actually don't like chimeras because they represent the one aspect of fifth edition I hate. Spam. This is a game of spam. Spamming chimeras, spamming obliterators, spamming jump pack troops, spamming wave serpents, and the list goes on. It's no longer about tactics so much as it is about overwhelming your opponents in a certain area. It's like 40k has become a much more expensive version of rock paper scissors. Balanced lists at tournament get hosed because inevitably they fight an extreme army that they can't deal with. So when building a list, I at least, always pick an extreme to deal with. Usually mech spam.
I wish there were more competitive builds within most armies. Guard are one of the more extreme examples. It is just so blatantly obvious which army to choose with guard.
You called?
Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
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I need to save up for a chimera. What's that? A cheap transport with two heavy flamers? Yes, please.
"Show me a man or a woman alone and I'll show you a saint. Give me two and they'll fall in love. Give me three and they'll invent the charming thing we call 'society'. Give me four and they'll build a pyramid. Give me five and they'll make one an outcast. Give me six and they'll reinvent prejudice. Give me seven and in seven years they'll reinvent warfare. Man may have been made in the image of God, but human society was made in the image of His opposite number, and is always trying to get back home." -Glen Bateman, The Stand (C&U), 3rd paragraph of Chapter 42, by Stephen King
Frazzled wrote:Long have I waited to hear of people calling Chimeras cheesy and hard to beat. As an old guard player, your tears are so sweet!
This is so very, very true.
The funniest bit is that relatively few things changed to make people cry - it's just a "Buy 3 for the price of 2!" sale, relative to the older 'dexes.
Didn't they used to count as open-topped when guys fired out? Or am I making that up? Have they always been able to have 5 special or heavy weapons shoot out?
6,000 Come to the Nova Open, the best miniature wargaming convention in the East: http://www.novaopen.com/
Kolath wrote:Didn't they used to count as open-topped when guys fired out? Or am I making that up? Have they always been able to have 5 special or heavy weapons shoot out?
They used to, if the contents had a save worse than 3+. The Inquisitorial ones still do.
They also used to have 1 or 2 (I can't Remember) "Real" Fire points and also had 6 Lasguns that could be used by the blokes inside.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/23 20:07:32
Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
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Thanks, Gwar! Yeah that confirms my annoyance with the 5th ed chimeras. The ability to load a unit with 4x plasma or 4x meltaguns and have them all shoot out seems OP to me. If it was limited to 2 and/or there was some downside (other than not using orders) then maybe it would be a little more reasonable.
6,000 Come to the Nova Open, the best miniature wargaming convention in the East: http://www.novaopen.com/
2. If the Chimera is Shaken or Stunned, the passengers cannot fire.
2. If the Chimera is Destroyed (Wrecked), then passengers bail and take a pinning test on their Imperial Guard leadership.
3. If the vehicle is Destroyed (Explodes), each Imperial Guardsman in the Chimera takes a S4 AP- hit, and they take the pinning test as well. If that's a five strong Company or Platoon Command Squad, expect 2.24 unsaved wounds, or two casualties. If that's a ten-strong squad of Infantry or Veterans, then expect 4.5 unsaved wounds or five casualties. In each case the squad is likely to take a Morale test as well as a pinning check. If they're under 50% of the squad's original size when they fail that test, they ain't coming back.
4. Once you crack the soft metal shell with shooting, you can charge the gooey bits inside.
Should imperial guard have solid competitive options that include lots of tanks? Of course, that is one of the big draws of the IG. The problem is that IG and many other 5th edition codexes are almost forced to mech. That shouldn't be the way this game works. We should have other options that are equally as competitive. I like the blood angels codex quite a bit because of their flexibility of choices. Unfortunately , this isn't the way most codexes are currently built.
Give us more options, make this game more varied and allow us to play the armies we want. Otherwise we might as well remove the other non-armor/non-armor-killing options and have more tanks/tank-killing options if that is what this game is gearing towards. I'm fine either way as long as I get a wider selection to choose from, instead of looking at my codex and cutting out half the entries and equipment options because they aren't viable. It isn't just the current meta either. The entire 5th edition rulebook and following codexes have been written to be geared towards armor values.
Variety is the spice of life and that spice is very rare atm.
In the embrace of the great Nurgle, I am no longer afraid, for with His pestilential favour I have become that which I once most feared: Death.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Yeah GW overpowered them (guess there was a new model coming huh).
The points and standard guns are fine, it's the 5 fire points that make it ridiculous. They should have kept it at 1 fire point + 3 las guns a side.
QFT. Just another vehicle that slipped through the cracks in playtesting. Ohh wait, what playtesting?
Oh I think they knew just what they were doing during play testing.
"Oy! We gots 'em new Kay-meras coming wot! Made 'em dead 'ard!"
Come back for the next codex when Valkyires and Chimeras will be useless but the new plastic Krieg will be god-like.
You mean like how everyone had 6 Carnifexes then they nerfed them so hard their Grannies went OW but suddenly Zoanthropes (which no-one had) suddenly became a "Must have 9" unit?
Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail. Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!)
Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Ehh, chimeras and certain IG lists can be good, though you should feel sorry for them, chimeras burn a hole in anyones pocket.
Agreed, 50 AUD is quite alot. Didn't they used to be 40, or less?
Luckily I got into IG right before the Codex was released (but available to internet savvy folks) and bought my Chimera and Hellhound force for roughly 15$ a tank. And the Leman Russes were about 20$. Cleaning up other peoples' eBay models is a great way to deal with prices.
Most people I play with don't use mech lists because most of them don't like WAAC lists, but it pisses me off that Mech IG are suddenly everywhere when in the fluff they're hardly ten-a-penny.
Jervis complains about tournament gamers, but it's HISdev team that made 5th edition what it is.
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made.
Why are people hating on tanks? I love the balance between infantry and vehicles the current game has struck.
If you want to play with all infantry, play Cities of Death. If you want to play with all tanks, play Spearhead. If you want both, well, that's the balance we have now in 40K.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/24 03:13:25
Cheese Elemental wrote:I'm sick of mechanised lists in general.
Most people I play with don't use mech lists because most of them don't like WAAC lists, but it pisses me off that Mech IG are suddenly everywhere when in the fluff they're hardly ten-a-penny.
Do you know anything about the fluff at all?
"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..." Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe.
Cheese Elemental wrote:I'm sick of mechanised lists in general.
Most people I play with don't use mech lists because most of them don't like WAAC lists, but it pisses me off that Mech IG are suddenly everywhere when in the fluff they're hardly ten-a-penny.
Do you know anything about the fluff at all?
QFT.
I don't really like the Chimera as a vehicle (I'd rather have the Rhino's AV11/11 to 12/10). I like what its done to the Imperial Guard though.
For clarification, I believe he is referring to the "Wall of Scales' as I so call it (get it...chimera...mythology...nevermind) as the opponent has around 8-10 of them side to side, where hitting side armour is pretty difficult.
Cheese Elemental wrote:I'm sick of mechanised lists in general.
Most people I play with don't use mech lists because most of them don't like WAAC lists, but it pisses me off that Mech IG are suddenly everywhere when in the fluff they're hardly ten-a-penny.
Do you know anything about the fluff at all?
You know what I mean. The archetype of the Imperial Guard is a mass of bodies. Why should this not be better represented in the game itself?
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made.
Frazzled wrote:Long have I waited to hear of people calling Chimeras cheesy and hard to beat. As an old guard player, your tears are so sweet!
QFT. I've been playing a Mechanized Guard list since they put it in the Armageddon book. I like finally having it pay off. It's like GW rewarded me for sticking with it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/24 06:01:44
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Cheese Elemental wrote:I'm sick of mechanised lists in general.
Most people I play with don't use mech lists because most of them don't like WAAC lists, but it pisses me off that Mech IG are suddenly everywhere when in the fluff they're hardly ten-a-penny.
Do you know anything about the fluff at all?
You know what I mean. The archetype of the Imperial Guard is a mass of bodies. Why should this not be better represented in the game itself?
Last I checked you could fit 132 Models into a Single Troops Choice, with not a vehicle in sight. 147 Wounds for 880 Points.
Oh yeah, the Codex does a horrible job of representing the massed infantry IG army. </Sarcasm>
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/24 06:10:39
Got 40k Rules Question? Send an e-mail to Gwar! for your Confidential Rules Queries.
Please do not PM me unless really necessary. I much prefer e-mail. Need it Answered RIGHT NOW!? Ring me on Skype: "gwar.the.trolle"
Looking to play some Vassal? Ring me for a game!
Download The Unofficial FAQs by Gwar! here! (Dark Eldar Draft FAQ v1.0 released 04/Nov/2010! Download it before the Pandas eat it all!)
Cheese Elemental wrote:I'm sick of mechanised lists in general.
Most people I play with don't use mech lists because most of them don't like WAAC lists, but it pisses me off that Mech IG are suddenly everywhere when in the fluff they're hardly ten-a-penny.
Do you know anything about the fluff at all?
You know what I mean. The archetype of the Imperial Guard is a mass of bodies AND TANKS.
Fixed that for you. Whinging about how the game does not support your particular misinterpretation of the fluff is a pretty weak position to make an attempt to argue from.
Also, considering how silly it was that in 4th edition effective lists generally minimized transports because they were such weak death traps, the increased mobility and discouragement of game-long static lines more tanks encourage should be perfectly acceptable. If you want to do mass of bodies, what's stopping you? The 'leafblower' is the current flavor of the month sweeping the 'net, but I'd like to see how it'd do against a pure foot-slogging IG list.
"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..." Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe.
Frazzled wrote:Long have I waited to hear of people calling Chimeras cheesy and hard to beat. As an old guard player, your tears are so sweet!
*goes into IG Preacher Mode*
My brothers, let me hear an AMEN!
Long have we suffered as our infantry is plagued by bolter and shuriken fire, but then the almight god emperor smiled upon us, and he said, Lo, and behold Metal Boxes! And we got down on our knees and praised Him for his mercy! And then we stood again, righteous fire gleaming in our eyes, and called down the fire from on high in our valkyries as we took shelter within! AMEN!
Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
I think i agree with you i would love too see more traditional guard armies.
I mean imperial guard can have the most infantry out of any other race and i love the classic cadian armies with 100+ line troopers backed by Leman Russ and Basilisks.
And how is melta vet fluffy I can only see it being fluffy for catachan as they love melta and have lots of vet's. But even mech regiments like DKOK actually have normal people
But then again i would bet a good foot guard against a leaf blower list. Just the sheer amount of autocannons and lascannons and then the crazy barrages of las fire.
I'm both orderly and rational. I value control, information, and order. I love structure and hierarchy, and will actively use whatever power or knowledge I have to maintain it. At best, I am lawful and insightful; at worst, I am bureaucratic and tyrannical.
BloodRavens: 3500pts (100% Painted).
Necrons: 3000pts. (100% Painted) .
Tau: 1850pts. (100% Painted). 
6,000 
-Kulvain Hestarius, Death Guard 
Renegade Guardsmen 
I can only see it being fluffy for catachan as they love melta and have lots of vet's. But even mech regiments like 