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Or you could fight bikernobz the easy way ...... With crushers.

Unit of crushers with or without a herald destroy them every time, and for far less points

Units of warriors or shrikes with boneswords also do the job well.

Phase Out

Nothing like a rule that auto hands you a victory by doing a half-arsed job fighting your opponent.

Jaws of the World Wolf i have killed over 400 points of tyranids with my 100 point Rune priest in one go with that power.
Hive tyrant
Doom of Malantai
2 Zoanthropes

Shouldn't "broken" take into account points values as well?

For example, Nob Bikers are tough and effective but to even a minimum sized mob is quite a point sink.

Blair:

Hush now, this is supposed to be the thread where the world comes to an end, not where it can't because you can't fit all four horsemen of the Apocalypse into a 2000pt army.

I remember this one time when my Jump Pack Librarian used Helfire and hit every single nob biker with it. Rolled 12 on 2 for strength and 1 on a . That is a flame template with strength 10 ap 1. Instant killed all of them with no cover save. Lets just say I one the game after that...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Helfire is a Dark Angels Lib power with the following stats:

Range Strength AP Type
Template 2D6-2 D6 Assault 1

I'd say nob bikers, but my markerlights can help me out there. I'd say SS termies or railguns just because that sstuipd 3+ is hard to get past, even after blowing up the land raider I usually see them in. I still have better targets for my railguns. And rail guns are great as you can bring only 9 of them, but those are TL, but since you can take so few it kinda balances out.

The humble ork boyz unit. 6 points for a model, with a unit size of up to 30, the option to re-roll failed morale checks and can contain a hidden PK.

JotWW gets my vote. It bypasses so many mechanisms of the game. No one model should have a power that can outright destroy a 360 point Nightbringer in one shot... and then continue to wipe out more guys behind him.

It is not that difficult to picture it taking down over 1k points of a big bug list in one or two shots. Silver bullets are one thing, but this is a gold plated shotgun that can be a pain for everyone. And it is not expensive and any SW army can take up to FOUR of them. Yeah, that's fair.

The following is my opinion on what is most broken/dodgy

Most broken rule: Decent of Angels, Deepstriking LRs
Most Broken Spell: Lash of Submission
Most Broken Unit: Librarian Dreads and Mephiston (by far)

To add further on most broken unit, no dread should get a large amount of attacks and have access to a psychic power that allows them to move like jump pack infantry.

As for Mephiston, he is probably the most unbalanced SC in 40k. His lack of an inv save and IC status does not make up for his uber killiness as a smart BA player can easilly compensate for this. Mephiston's rules as a whole appear to be unbalanced and “strange” and don’t fit the template in how a 40k SC should be.

Nurglitch wrote:And by 'anything', the rules for the Jaws of the World Wolf means: "Monstrous creatures, beasts, cavalry, bikes and infantry models..."

In other words vehicles, jump infantry, and artillery, are completely immune, and by extension units embarked in vehicles. Monstrous Creatures have a -1 bonus for their initiative test.

If you tried to tell me Jump Infantry were immune to JotWW I'd probably slap you. Please just try to convince me that they aren't infantry models. Just because you get a movement rule doesn't change the fact you are still infantry. Hence, jump INFANTRY.

Sorry for the OT, but that is just ridiculous.

EagleArk wrote:Mind you cant Dark Eldar can get a 2+ inv?

And it's the only invulnerable save they have...period.

jump infantry are NOT infantry... in the big rulebook it states the different types of infantry. jump infantry, bike infantry, jetbike infantry, and infantry are all different. If jump infantry were normal infantry, they wouldn't take dangerous terrain tests moving through terrain (they do, even if they only move 6")

SS temies, they rape with combat resolution

No, to force a morale test you need to inflict 3 S8+ wounds. S8+ will instant-kill them and ignores their FNP. They have a 1/3 chance of failing their cover save so you need to cause 9 S8+ wounds to have a reasonable chance of doing that. Between battle cannon, melta vets, vendettas, manticores, and all the other insane amounts of shooting that guard get that shouldnt be a problem.

If they take a warboss and wazdakka, they are t5. And usually the nob biker players put the first hits on them until they have 1 wound left, then you need to kill 4 bikes after that, so a total of 8 unsaved wounds which is a level of firepower my gunline guard can't dish out. My dark eldar list if I go all lances has about 21 at 1500. But that is still not even half of the shots I need, to even force a morale check.
Frankly I don't see how anyone can argue anything else as broken. SS termis aren't mounted on bikes, or count as troops, or have two wounds, or have feel no pain, or have different wargear so they can spread wounds if they had 2 wounds. If SS termis had all that then they would be slightly better than nob bikers. The nob bikers still have a ridiculous amount of firepower should they require it, where SS termis have nothing

Mattlov wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:And by 'anything', the rules for the Jaws of the World Wolf means: "Monstrous creatures, beasts, cavalry, bikes and infantry models..."

In other words vehicles, jump infantry, and artillery, are completely immune, and by extension units embarked in vehicles. Monstrous Creatures have a -1 bonus for their initiative test.

If you tried to tell me Jump Infantry were immune to JotWW I'd probably slap you. Please just try to convince me that they aren't infantry models. Just because you get a movement rule doesn't change the fact you are still infantry. Hence, jump INFANTRY.

Sorry for the OT, but that is just ridiculous.

Read a rulebook. Infantry and Jump Infantry are separate unit types.

I want battlesuits in devilfish NAOW! Why did noone inform me that jump infantry = inf? What FAQ is this in?

Maybe this is to make DE scourges better! All hose heavies n a raider?! Wait, they would still be worse than ravagers...

In all seriousness, it makes total sense that if the ground tries to swallow you, and you can fly, you will simply fly.

Bjorn the fell handed is one I can think off...Is he OP? Well not really....Is he super Powah-full and has the ability to take on anything in the game and keep smiling...HECK YES.

With an Invuln save he has the ability to keep coming back...and adds points to your victory if played right if the event happens that he does die.


jotww is another good one.

Shokk attack gun is another...but only if you roll double 6.

Mega-nobs in battle wagons. Anyone of you can say that..oh I will just pop that with my S8 weapons from far away and shoot them down....Try doing that to a 30 mega-nob army with battle wagons and other neat stuff. I seen that list and Tau, Chaos and Other Ork players could not beat it. They were all running the kinds of lists you arrogant people who claim my S7 pr S10 AP rending this and that's and this cannot affect me cuz I gots this and that...well they were running those kinds of lists and while one or two tanks got shot....it really does not help you very much. Mega-nobs of that number are not a very easy list to beat especially with Mad Doc and Thraka in the list with them.

In short...I am sick of mega nobs. No matter the type of stuff I need to do in the game. I keep running up...I get into CC...Kill EVERYTHING....then I wipe out everything somewhere around turn 3-4.

I got so sick of running them in games that I retired the 8 mega-nobs I have to a display case where their shinny golden and tin bits armor looks pretty and nothing more.

Tantras wrote:

Volkov wrote:SS Termis don't hold a candle to Nob Bikers. Nob Nikers also can get a 3+ cover save, have 2 wounds, can hold objectives, move 24", can have different wargear to spread wounds around without removing models, and have feel no pain as the cherry on top. Every army can deal with terminators, precious few armies can deal with nob bikers. Oh and I forgot to mention the really long bases allows you to spread them out to both avoid ordinance and multi-assault along a massive front

I whole-heartedly agree.

What really pisses me off is that in the Tyranid Codex they closed the loop-hole for spreading wounds due to unique equipment (I can't remember the wording, but they did) for Tyranid Warriors, yet they haven't released an errata for the Ork Nob situation. It really, really annoys me.

I love your Avatar

In my opinion nothing is "broken", there are just harder items.

For example want to neuter nob bikers to the point of helplessness? Ruins. Stick the object two stories up and the Nobz are going nowhere near it.

The most broken Character is Mephiston? Really? Sorry, no Inv save and no IC rules means he is cannon fodder.

JotWW is NOT broken - if you play like an idiot because you dont know what it is / does, then fair enough, but it is surpriisinglky easy to neuter:

- dont line up your big bugs
- vehicles
- get the guy in combat. the only vehicles he can be in and see out to fire it are rhino class. kill the vehicle, assault.
- shoot him from range. 24" isnt that far.

Now, Murderous Hurricane, the "unit moves as in difficult and dangerous" IS murder, and by far the stronger power.

nosferatu1001 wrote:For example want to neuter nob bikers to the point of helplessness? Ruins. Stick the object two stories up and the Nobz are going nowhere near it.

Hahah, amazing! Why did this not occur to me sooner?

Broken meaning "good or overpowered": Chimeras, Space Marines. A vehicle that can house an entire firing squad moving around the board pumping plasma or melta into things is insane. Space Marines basic units have the same save as tyranids' strongest creatures. If there are TWO things in this game I wish I'd never have to see ever again, it's a space marine or a chimera. Bring on the TH/SS termies, the triple dissie or lance ravagers, sanguinary guard, doom of malan'ti or anything else, but I would never want to see a chimera or space marine.

Broken meaning "Bad or unusable": DE scourges, they have heavy weapons, but can't move and fire. Necron phase out rule. DA bikes that can't turboboost during scout move when other armies can. Stuff like that is just so counter-intuitive it makes me wonder how it got published.


Edit: Battlefleet Gothic, the whole damn necron fleet is a mix of both broken good and broken bad.

space marine 3+ armor overpowered??!?!!

GAH!!! I loose so many damn marines while sitting in 4+ cover, wondering why my marines thought it would be a great idea to stand up and take a bolter round to the face instead of trying to use the cover, then if he was hit anyway, taking a bolter round to the face.

In a game where 4+ cover saves are so incredibly common, paying extra points for a 3+ save in a majority shooty army is more often than not a liability. if I could get a refund of 7-8 points per tac marine to drop his save to 5+, guess what, i'd do it in a heartbeat. I'd be taking techmarines to give me a 3+ cover save, and i'd be happy as a pig in slop, with double the normal marines on the table.

the ONLY TIME a 3+ save is worth ANYTHING is in hand to hand, and really, because marines are so expensive and only have 1 attack in hand to hand anyway, its not even that much of a saving grace when your forced to take 10-12 saves. and your only dealing 4 wounds or so.

Gandair - you mean "can move 6" if the squad inside want to fire, and they cant do that if you get *1* shaken result on the vehicle" I take it? Side armour 10 (on huuuge sides) is not difficult to deal with.

SPace marines are T4, not T6. So you are wounded far more often ,reducing the value of their save.

DA Bikes cant turbboost because they have homing beacons. So that the landing-first-turn deathwing cant be literally in your lines Turn 1.

nosferatu, the problem with chimeras is that the av10 on the sides is never visible... if you have a wall of 15 chimeras coming at you. You can get around a major disadvantage by just taking more chimeras.

Well... you don't actually have to see the side armor to be rolling on side armor... you just get a 3+ cover save in that situation.

Chimera spam is the phalanx of 40k. As we all know, historically the phalanx was never beaten, which is why modern militaries still fight in phalanx formation!

Is no-one going to call jetseer councils overpowered? Please?

but... jetseer councils arent overpowered.

take a marine librarian with a psychic hood... you stand a good chance to stop fortune from going off, and even if it does, you can still try null zone + plasmas / power swords to cut them to prices. and even if you can't stop fortune, a 4+ re-rollable save is only slightly more durable than a single 3+ save.... so ap3 wounds will still get 1/4 wounds through.

It's not.
It relies heavily on fortune, and these days you can either stop the fortune or unleash so much dakka or force multipliers that it evens out.

It is a trick pony list now.

Honersstodnt wrote:nosferatu, the problem with chimeras is that the av10 on the sides is never visible... if you have a wall of 15 chimeras coming at you. You can get around a major disadvantage by just taking more chimeras.

So you dont have any fast units *at all*? THen that suggests a problem with your list or tactics.

Chimeras arent an issue, not compared to the good old valkyrie with HB and missile pods.