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Melissia wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Melissia wrote:Chaos would win against the Star Trek universe more likely than not, they're very poorly equipped and trained to deal with such a threat.

Chaos is more than just raving lunatics charging at you screaming "blood for the blood god!", it's a subversive, subtle thing.

Meh, chaos would just be another faction. Unlike the Imperium the UFP wouldn't care about chaos. They are just other worlds. live and let live. Besides, Kirk would party hearty depending on which chaos god was the focal point of the planet...

I don't think you quite understand the danger of Chaos then. Chaos can take over the minds of starship captains. Fleet admirals. Planetary governors. Entire RACES have been subverted to the will of chaos.

The ruinous powers would destroy the Federation from within, and all of the universe would be swept within a never-ending tide of blood, sorcery, plague, and slavery.

Thats what the Imperium wants you to think.

In the UFP's limited retinue of planets they have a whole world dedicated to partying (Ryza-spelling). Don't oppress the Federation with your Imperial hangups man! Lets embrace our differences, diversity makes us stronger. That foaming guy in the corner with the axe? No, the one next to the Klingon not the klingon, ok him too you're right. They are valued members. When the replicator breaks down they can use their axes and batliths to open it up for repair. Besides, we have to keep the tribble population down somehow. So he shouts "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!" once in a while. Hey who hasn't?


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Mortified Penguin wrote:The Emperor is the most powerful psyker alive (or dead, as the case may be).

He could simply mind crush the UFP's commanders.

Except he can't of course, that whole dead thing.

Lol. Yes, that kind of attitude wouldn't let the UFP last long when you see pleasure cults of Slaanesh causing worlds to be half-submersed in the warp, so that daemons can come and go across the world at will, torturing and raping whoever they wanted.

And that guy screaming blood for the blood god doesn't care whose blood he spills. So he chops off the captain's head because not enough blood has been spilled, and makes a shrine out of the man's skull to donate it to the throne of skulls.

Frazzled wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mortified Penguin wrote:The Emperor is the most powerful psyker alive (or dead, as the case may be).

He could simply mind crush the UFP's commanders.

Except he can't of course, that whole dead thing.

*coughastronomicanhackemperor'starotcough*

Furthermore, if you focus the blazing power of the Astronomican on a single mind at a time, I'd imagine an effect similar to putting an ant under an arc welder.

Melissia wrote:Actually I think if the Emperor didn't have to fight off the chaos gods, he could manifest himself again in a "mortal" body once more.

Well, his psychic essence (whatever that original amalgam of shamans is now) is still fully intact, and there are a number of theories on how the Emperor could be "reborn".

1. If his mortal body fully died (turn off the throne), he would fully manifest as a warp entity (i.e. Star Child).
2. If his mortal body was restored (sacrifice the Sensei), he could wake up.
3. If a suitable host for his power was found/created (probably something involving Sensei again), he could reincarnate.

Of course, the problem with these possible solutions is that even if they work, the beacon of the Astronomicon disappears so the Imperium falls apart again. And a number of sub-sects of the Inquisition theorize that an unimaginably powerful psychic entity that spent ten thousand years tied to a corpse in a coffin may just be a little flying rodent gak crazy when it emerges.

Melissia wrote:Lol. Yes, that kind of attitude wouldn't let the UFP last long when you see pleasure cults of Slaanesh causing worlds to be half-submersed in the warp, so that daemons can come and go across the world at will, torturing and raping whoever they wanted.

And that guy screaming blood for the blood god doesn't care whose blood he spills. So he chops off the captain's head because not enough blood has been spilled, and makes a shrine out of the man's skull to donate it to the throne of skulls.

That only happens when there's a tear in the warp. The Sabbat wrolds were fine and dandy until the Imperial did that whole crusade thingy, interrupting everyone's party.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mortified Penguin wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mortified Penguin wrote:The Emperor is the most powerful psyker alive (or dead, as the case may be).

He could simply mind crush the UFP's commanders.

Except he can't of course, that whole dead thing.

*coughastronomicanhackemperor'starotcough*

Furthermore, if you focus the blazing power of the Astronomican on a single mind at a time, I'd imagine an effect similar to putting an ant under an arc welder.

if they could have they would have. Who cares. Send in robby the robot. no mind involved.

Fine then. UFP beats Imperium, Chaos floods reality. Yeah, nice one.

Mortified Penguin wrote:Fine then. UFP beats Imperium, Chaos floods reality. Yeah, nice one.

Excellent.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:One has time-travel capability, the other does not. I rest my case.

Which one has time travel?

The Federation doesn't. There IS a time travel organization in the Star Trek universe, but it's not the federation.

Haha, the first time the Federation entered the warp without the beacon to guide them, they'd all get raped and eaten by demons. Game over.

I think that pretty much sums up the thread in all honesty.

But if you wanna hear the truth...here it goes.

Simple fact is the UFP is a small organization compared to the imperium. It says the imperium is across MILLIONS of planets. millions. untold and uncountable billions man those planets. As far as the Tau are concerned, it says right in the Tau codex that during the even though they beat off ONE small fleet of the imperium, they recognized that the imperium had showed the smallest fraction of its power, and they would have to be extremly careful in the future, otherwise they know they would be wiped out extremly quickly. the UFP is like the Tau. Beggining their space travels and figuring out peace with other aliens, good technological power, lots of buddies and allies to back them up. The imperuim doesnt need buddies to back them up. They killed all their buddies because they know eventually, they will turn on them.

Tau are finding this out already. Several of their planets or groups of peoples are starting to think for themselves. In star trek, I think they have a group of people called the Machi, who are similar in their ideas. The Machi cause lots of problems for Starfleet. If the Machi existed in the imperium they would probably own a few planets...and exterminatus. IF the imperium saw them as something to focus their attention on.

As far as Kirk goes....I'd like to see captain kirk stand toe to toe with any Space marine captain or comissar. His phaser stun settings and goofy smile is all he'd have. Ingenuity? Does anyone honestly think that someone could outstrategize a space marine commander, someone who has been alive for hundreds of years of constant war? Probably not.

As for the genesis torpedo...how many could the UFP fire off until they were utterly destroyed by the uncountable fleets of imperium? How many do they have? Not to mention, if these even worked, why havnt they used them agains the Borg? Or any other enemy for that matter? If you say its because the UFP doesnt beleive in such harsh ways to commit genocide, then they lose again to the imperium, who commit genocide on a daily basis.

I think its no comparison. I think if the the UFP was equal size to the imperium, with same amount of ships, etc, then yes, the UFP would probably wipe the floor with the imperium. Same with the Tau in 40K, they would as well. Problem is they arn't.

Again, the Imperium can't get it up to swat the Tau. The UFP is dramatically more advanced. By the time the Imperium noticed they were there the Imperium would already be dead. These doofuses can't even build a car anymore, and they are going to compete with an organization that went from space flight to creating reorganizing states of matter in what 300 years?

The Federation has Jean Luc Picard. The Imperium doesn't stand a chance.

Stolen from the OT thread

Vorlon wrote:How could you forget

Melissia wrote:The Federation doesn't. There IS a time travel organization in the Star Trek universe, but it's not the federation.

I remember two TV episodes and two films where they travel in time in various different ways.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Melissia wrote:The Federation doesn't. There IS a time travel organization in the Star Trek universe, but it's not the federation.

I remember two TV episodes and two films where they travel in time in various different ways.

Yep. Its not difficult for the Federation. The wheel is difficult for the Imperium.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Melissia wrote:The Federation doesn't. There IS a time travel organization in the Star Trek universe, but it's not the federation.

I remember two TV episodes and two films where they travel in time in various different ways.

Hell if you watch DS9, they do it 8 times a season.

I didn't watch that very much.

Night Lords wrote:The Federation has Jean Luc Picard. The Imperium doesn't stand a chance.

The Imperium has Yarrick.

Melissia wrote:

Night Lords wrote:The Federation has Jean Luc Picard. The Imperium doesn't stand a chance.

The Imperium has Yarrick.

Yarrick's just a Borg. UFP knows how to deal with Borg.

Sleeeeeeeeeeeeeppp...

Fine, the Imperium has Creed.

The UFP has Kirk.

Kilkrazy wrote:The UFP has Kirk.

Kilkrazy wrote:The UFP has Kirk.

Kirk loses due to tactical geni-CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!

Kirk's never lost. Its not physically possible for him to lose. If it were to occur Chuck Norris, Bill Adama, Muhammad Ali, Patton (real Creed), a pirate, a ninja, Abraham Lincoln, a ticked off Frazzled with twin linked rocket propelled weiner dogs, and Apollo Creeeeeeed would spontanenously appear and set the universe to right in proppa Speghetti Western fashion.

Creed's never actually won anything. Besides, that cigar's going to give him cancer.

I'd like to see that, if only because I'd like to see Chuck Norris get his arrogant ass handed to him.

You are a worthy foe.

Chuck Norris cannot be defeated. His chin is a third fist after all.

of course, its irrelevant once the wonder weinies take the field. Even the Space Amprah don't feth with no weinie dogs. You don't get that old being stupid or suicidal.

Frazzled wrote:Kirk's never lost. Its not physically possible for him to lose. .

Except for that time he got killed by a, you know, tricksy bridge.

Both the UFP and the Imperium have pretty damn slow travel (Compared to, say, Star Wars), but the Imperium beats the Federation easily.

No Federation vessels can destroy the surface of a planet in little time. Imperial ships have exterminatus.

On the ground? The best a phaser has shown is grenade launcher level (Destroying a thin wall of rock with a tunnel behind it). Star Trek has shown no armor, no artillery other than some weak mortars in The Arena, and some of the worst infantry in the universe. Almost all of their combat happens at the same tiny ranges 40K excels at. Hell, one of their strongest personal has shown nothing better than a Space Marine (Data).

And if anyone is going to use the teleportation argument: No. Teleporters are stopped by shields. Imperial ships have shields.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:One has time-travel capability, the other does not. I rest my case.

Inconsistent time travel that does not alter the original dimension.

Ergo, if Star Trek uses time travel, they're not beating the Imperium of Man, they're defeating an alternate dimension Imperium of Man.

Deadshane1 wrote:To those of you that will say...

"but 40k warships are 100's of times bigger than the largest starfleet vessel..."

Two words...

Genesis Torpedo

Never was mass-produced, original is lost.

Melissia wrote:Besides, if you want to use the genesis torpedo, the Imperium has its own world-destroying weapons. Even the standard issue orbital bombardment can wipe out all life on the world.

And unlike the Genesis torpedo, there's a lot of them.

andruin wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Kirk's never lost. Its not physically possible for him to lose. .

Except for that time he got killed by a, you know, tricksy bridge.

NEVER HAPPENED

KIRK IS INVINCIBLE!

I think everyone knows who would win the battle in the end. Fact is no one is ever gonna admit it. Whenever someone from the 40K side offers evidence of "hey, we have uncountable ships, men, military power, and technology that, while may not be as advanced as yours, it still is pretty close to par, and we pracitcally own the entire galaxy except for a few small areas" it gets counter argued with things like

"Kirk in invicible." He hasn't fought a space marine yet. Or a Nid. Or and eldar Exarch. Or really anything that would have him crushed, eaten and smashed to pieces in seconds. Only thing Kirk has fought is human sized and speed aliens that have claws and can't seem to best him in hand to hand combat. And Klingons. Neither of those have power armor.

"We have environment bombs." As someone has stated already, they dont have that technology anymore, it's dead.

"If kirk fought chuck norris and pirates, Kirk would obviously come out on top." I dont even need to point out how un-related this is.

"We have time travel" Which cannot be re-created reliably, frequently, and seems to only happen when freak occurances in the universe permits for an episode or two.

"The imperium would never notice the UFP! They'd be dead by the time they did" even though they notice tons of small races of creatures on new planets frequently which are put to the flame....and still alive, and still the majour military might in the Galaxy. And which many other races know not to provoke them unless they draw their fury, and be smashed.

Even Eldar, who can see the future, whos technology is vastly more advanced than the UFP and the imperium, don't mess with them. They pick small guerilla warfare battles and win small battles. However when drawn into major conflicts, they lose and then go off and cry about it. Wars of attrition is something the imperium CAN do. It's not something the UFP could do. The imperium has been at war constantly, and still is, for tens of thousands of years, and it STILL rules their known Galaxy, which is probably 100 times larger than the star trek sector. The feds rule a tiny little sector in their galaxy, and whenever war comes up they negotiate peace talks because they openly admit that they would lose too many men. It's a numbers game. And Feds come up short.

Not to toot the Ultramarines Chapter horns (so to speak) or anything, but I think just that chapter alone could deal with the UFP. That chapter and the various Guard regiments that owe them their loyalty due to marny being the (sub?)sector governor basically.