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I saw in another thread that you got this from a WD about Tycho seeing what happened in the fight, right?

That story is just tycho being so insane he plays make believe that he is sangy when fighting orks. No source on tearing horus' throat out.

@Ed bodger


Thing is Ed what you forget is that the emperor hadn't lost any sleep over the millions already killed in his name before the heresy.. so what's a few more. He feels guilt when they look to him for leadership and he doesn't know what to do, but thats about him being a gak leader.

But Horus.. Horus had been with him from the beginning even saved his life at one point. He is in many ways the closest thing he has to an equal. Even Sangy favored number 2 is pretty much irrelevant to Horus.

You can't relate to the emperor because first your not a warlord and second he's a fictional god like being. Get it?

Of course I get it when I originally made the point I was being flippant. However IMO he made a mistake he had only known Horus for 200 years out of a lifetime of thousands of years I'm sure he could have had a little more clarity. On the otherhand I don't really care that much. Get it?

Thanks for those stories Gonads of Waagh. I hadn't seen those before.

I think the portrayal of the Emperor, primarchs and marines as more human, although more in line with old fluff, is more intriguing. They have to have SOME humanity in order to be decent characters. The Emperor, although still insanely powerful, is able to feel the weight of responsibility and kinship. He even refuses to accept that his favored son is lost because of love (admit it, it was love) until he reads his features as he murders the marine.

The part where Sanguinius and Angron stare each other down, wordlessly, and then Angron simply walks off is awesome. Somehow he realized they wouldn't be cowed. I hope that doesn't get altered in the HH series.

Ed_Bodger wrote:Of course I get it when I originally made the point I was being flippant. However IMO he made a mistake he had only known Horus for 200 years out of a lifetime of thousands of years I'm sure he could have had a little more clarity. On the otherhand I don't really care that much. Get it?

lol its so ridiculous.. Oh course he made a mistake.. haha.

Ed_Bodger wrote:Of course I get it when I originally made the point I was being flippant. However IMO he made a mistake he had only known Horus for 200 years out of a lifetime of thousands of years I'm sure he could have had a little more clarity. On the otherhand I don't really care that much. Get it?

how about this? he knew Horus more as an ally than an enemy

also, if the Emperor could like, I dunno, do something he might actually bring some folks back over to his side of things. you make it seem so simple but I don't believe you would have such a little amount of imagination as to say he is Black and White, though and through, could to the bone, utterly evil and irredeemable if it came to your own kid, unless you saw him doing such nefarious things, such as on the news or something. heck, if you and your kid were best buddies (like some real friendship) you might even think it would be different if you got to talking face to face, after all, people change personalities dramatically when in war and at home. I mean, you do have a file in your brain that is capable of interpreting what going on with your kid, he isn't suddenly Hitler

that being said, I'm sure there would have been more than enough sources for thew Emperor to look over and have plenty of time for contemplation for when he meets up with his son. it was probably a daft decission none the less

personally though I would love to have a son who would become the next Hitler (and suceed) if not myself. well, as long as he's not supporting something I've never heard of.

Lotet wrote:
personally though I would love to have a son who would become the next Hitler (and suceed) if not myself. well, as long as he's not supporting something I've never heard of.

After reading this I believe you to be one of the sickest people I have had the misfortune to communicate with.

Lotet wrote:
personally though I would love to have a son who would become the next Hitler (and suceed) if not myself. well, as long as he's not supporting something I've never heard of.

If there were any sort of natural justice in the world, people like you would be prevented from breeding so as not to pollute the gene pool.

Ed_Bodger wrote:

Lotet wrote:
personally though I would love to have a son who would become the next Hitler (and suceed) if not myself. well, as long as he's not supporting something I've never heard of.

After reading this I believe you to be one of the sickest people I have had the misfortune to communicate with.

sorry 'bout that. I forgot to mention how he used some political powers and what have you, to help his country become powerful and prosper and stuff after the last war. I'd love to see such a determined leader gain the favor of the people and make it mighty. he didn't just conscript everyone and throw them into battle and he blah blah blah blah blah

I forgot to mention how he used some political powers and what have you, to help his country become powerful and prosper and stuff after the last war

yeah, that's exactly what Hitler did, and that's why he re's remembered so fondly...

.. what exactly are you saying here. Please choose your words very carefully.

Ed_Bodger wrote:
You are a kid so your vote doesn't really count.

Oh you're right. A kid shouldn't have any say in whether or not his dad shoots his child's brains out. That'd just be silly.

Seriously, a man should have the strongest feelings and relationship with his family possible. One that overrides the concerns of others. If there's one thing that my father has taught me in my life, is that a good father provides and puts the family first. Blood is important.

EDIT: For propa spelling chex. Another thing he taught me.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Ed_Bodger wrote:
You are a kid so your vote doesn't really count.

Oh you're right. A kid shouldn't have any say in whether or not his dad shoots his child's brains out. That'd just be silly.

Seriously, a man should have the strongest feelings and relationship with his family possible. One that overrides the concerns of others. If there's one thing that my father has tuaght me in my life, is that a good father provides and puts the family first. Blood is important.

Look I am going to keep this as polite as possible so that my point is not distilled by vitriol.

I adore my kids which is why I don't see them for six months at a time when I go to Afghanistan to fight to protect their future safety. There is literally nothing I would not do for them, with no exceptions if it kept them safe.

However if something god forbid went drastically wrong in their upbringing and they developed into a mentally disturbed perpatrator of mass genocide then I would deal with it. There is no point arguing about this because it is never going to happen and we are relating this to a fictional story created in the mid-eighties that has no bearing on the real world.

As I said earlier I was being flippant but I am not having my parenting attitude questioned by someone who is barely out of puberty. Now don't get offended by this because I do not mean to offend you but please don't speculate on something that you cannot understand because you are not a/ a parent or b/ me.

Rant over topic closed.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic (ok, maybe I was a little).

You yourself have pointed out that you would think it impossible that your own children could commit such acts of genocide and destruction. Only if you saw it for yourself could you possibly imagine bringing harm to them by your own hand. It's this type of torn up father/son relationship that the writers were trying to capture, that bit of hesitation where only seeing the act of evil for himself could the father finally gain the will to put an end to his son.

BTW, good on you for doing your part.

EDIT: Spelling again.

reds8n wrote:

I forgot to mention how he used some political powers and what have you, to help his country become powerful and prosper and stuff after the last war

yeah, that's exactly what Hitler did, and that's why he re's remembered so fondly...

.. what exactly are you saying here. Please choose your words very carefully.

*deep breath* *Wikipedia search*

okey dokey, well, he was a bad person overall, no doubt about that, but after World War 1 Germany suffered. to put the good he did forward simply, he provided more infastructure which lead to jobs which lead to labourors and farmers (though not specialist like tailors and artists) having a higher standard of living and a massive drop in the unemployment rates. this was for the modernization of Germany and lead to a much more powerful economy.

that's putting it nicely and removing the bad stuff. the point is Germany had been weakened and he turned it into a country that embroiled every major nation in War. I don't want a racist kid, I want a leader who can analyze what he has (such as Australia having the most Uranium and producing the most Titanium amongst other things) and turning it into something that earns the attention of all others. someone who can do what most people would have never imagined possible

but really, I only say this because I have a constant urge to argue and debate, I mean, I keep saying I'm Athiest but alway support Christianity, I'm one of those people who enjoy debates and never tire (and can never tell when my enemy is pissed off unless they say it out loud) of the back and forth. I'm a person who likes the world for more than how people see it on. so please don't think I'm some sort of Nazi

replying to a Mod with Satan in his username

So wait...you want Australia to nuke the world and utilise Titanium weapons in order to gain attention?










ALRIIIIIGHT! (jks )

I don't want a racist kid

In which case choosing Hitler was, frankly, pretty much the stupidest example you could have used in the context and way you did.

Every country suffered after WW I, and every country struggled to get through that period. But there's ways of doing it without choosing a genocidal maniac to lead them. There's much better examples of leaders who actually managed what you are now explaining you meant, ones that won't make you look like a Nazi apologist.

that's putting it nicely and removing the bad stuff

Hmm,..yeah.. FYI : that'll get short shrift on this forum and life in general in most circumstances.

Anyway, now we've cleared up we shall return to our regularly scheduled posting.

So...if we remove all the bad stuff...what was Horus again?

Emperors Faithful wrote:So...if we remove all the bad stuff...what was Horus again?

Fictional for starters.

No. He was real. Or at least that's what Eqyptians say.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Equiptians? *facepalm*

..isn't it lucky all that writing fits exactly in the gap around them like that.

They were so strong that writing stood apart and made them room

Photoshop?

..it's clearly twitter...

http://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot&play=true

..Ithankyou, I'm here all week, try the steak.

No, they just painted the picture before they put the writing in...

reds8n wrote:Ithankyou, I'm here all week, try the steak.

Get off the stage!

Scott-S6 wrote:No, they just painted the picture before they put the writing in...

Cheh. Right.

I didnt mean to start a nazi vs satan war in my humple topic :(

Ed_Bodger wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:

Ed_Bodger wrote:Probably yes I could if I had just watched the little fether kill my other son and millions of people pass me the shotgun and a mop.

Do you have kids, Ed?

Also, the Primarchs weren't just children to the Emperor. They were the culmination of thousands of years worth of work, a plan to reunite all of humanity, to lift the entire species to a new golden age. I can barely stand to drive my car after I just washed it; I can't imagine what the Emperor was going through. In all of the works about them, its one of the few moments where we get to see some humanity out of the Emperor. And I for one think its totally understandable. No matter what your son does, he is still your son. Nothing changes that. Only when the Emperor saw Horus's evil first hand did he realize he had to end it.

Yes I do have kids, and I would compare Horus with Hitler and if I had been his father and in possesion of a gun I would have blown his brains out.

Forget all the crap about thousands of years of work The Emperor had seen that:

a) he could be beaten and as far as he was concerned he was the only being capable of leading humanity.
b) his second favorite son Sanguinius had just been chocked to death by Horus.
c) his favorite son had destroyed everything the Emperor had spent thousands of years working on.

And comparing you car to a son that had annihalted millions is just silly. The Emperor had 20 sons and Horus had corrupted half of them and killed one with his own hands.

Sanguinius had his heart ripped out, not choaked to death

After reading that extract (thank you Waaaagh Gonads), I think it's clear that there will be no definitive answer for what happened between Horus and the Emperor, it's a simple part of fiction. I apologise for being level-headed, it's my thing.

If you read that extract and compare it to other sources and claims, there are clear differences as to what happened. For example, in the Bill King novel/extract Rogal Dorn has dark hair, whereas in the pictures (HH trading cards for example) and more recent background, he has white hair. Similarly, the Titans are 10x the size of a man, where as modern fluff they are the size of a large building, the list goes on.

Because of the Horus Heresy and WH40K itself being a fictional piece of work, the background can be repeatedly changed, which it has. The best you can really do to 'decide' what happened in his 'chamber' is to collect every (official) interpretation, then it's up to you to decide which is true. Or on the other hand, you collect these different interpretations and you find an 'average' or common ground.
For example in this case, it can be rounded down/deduced to the following:
- Horus lowers the shields on his barge - probably as a trap rather than for sight-seeing.
- Emperor, Sanguinus, Rogal and many astartes teleport aboard. They all get split up.
- Sanguinus ends up face to face with Horus and refuses to surrender. They fight, sanguinus dies. Probably without causing the chink through which the emperor killed Horus.
- The Emperor and Horus battle, Horus is beating the Emperor and then the Emperor rip's Horus a new one (psychically). This probably only happened after the emperor only then realised how far Horus had changed after the killing/flaying of a Terminator/Custodes/Guardsman.
- Emperor crippled. Horus dead. Traitors leg it. Rogal gives Emperor a shiny wheelchair.

As I said, being fictional and therefore open for interpretation and change, there's no definitive answer for what happened. Just a collection of possibles, from which you can believe whichever you like.


Dave.

as a side-note and personal opinion, I don't believe/follow the idea that it was a guardsman that turned up on the bridge and got flayed, I can't imagine a guardsman surviving that far, not going mad and teleporting onto the ship.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

Owain wrote:Correct. It was originally a Guardsman named Ollanius Pius, and I personally hold on to that version.

Brofist! It sounds much more heroic than some Custodes standing up to Horus.

Indeed!

Extracted from 1d4chan,

LOOK AT THIS f----g GUARDSMAN.

He's spent months fighting a grueling war in which his enemies are demigods allied with daemons, and now he's found himself in the closest thing to Hell he's ever known. He probably wasn't even supposed to get teleported up to the arch-traitor's battle barge in the first place, and just ended up in the wrong place at the worst possible time.

Somehow he's survived horrors beyond comprehension to make his way to the very bridge of Horus' flagship. He saw a veritable angel call upon Horus to answer for his crimes, and he saw that angel die as messily as any guardsman. His Emperor - who he fervently believes is a god incarnate, even if he's not supposed to - lies mortally wounded, and Horus, perhaps, has taken a moment to gloat before he strikes the killing blow.

His armor is slightly more effective than tissue paper, his weapon is slightly more powerful than a flashlight, and Horus' power claw is bigger than his entire body. He stands before a being infused by the dark gods with incalculable power, that can and will obliterate his soul with no more effort than it would take him to swat a gnat. Nothing he can do could possibly make a difference.

He could run. He could turn his weapon on himself. He could give in to the insidious whispers that echo from the ship's corridors into his mind.

Ollanius Pius does the duty his Emperor requires of him. He dies standing, and holding the f-----g line.

seriously, its such a shame they retconned the hell out of him, because he was a badass, also he should have shot him in the face

Steamin' hot demigod on demigod action.

I hadn't read that excerpt before, thanks for posting it; that second story was great, and portrayed the Emperor in a much different light than in most of the recent stuff that he shows up in.

Its clear that the Emp was holding back to some degree, and while we can all agree that he shouldn't have been, it is pretty apparent he was. I don't think he realized how much of an ass-beating he was going to receive either, I guess a Primarch infused with the power of all four chaos gods will do that.

From that story, it didn't seem like Sanguinas did much, other than get wrecked; which isn't surprising given what he'd been going through for the past few days. Its too bad the Emp didn't witness that battle, otherwise maybe he would have mind-lanced him sooner.