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Matt65 wrote:

disty wrote:I'm sure I saw the same topic in the 40k discussion not long ago.

I do remember that originally the warhammer world exists somewhere near to the eye of terror but I think that's now been removed by GW. There was also a very interesting theory that originally Sigmar was one of the missing space marine primarchs!

the other day I ws reading the BRB and thought the same thing. Sigmar lives to be 80 ( im asuming with no magic assistance ) and is still in good health enough to leave his empire on a quest of adventure just because hes bored. when realistically 500+ years ago you were lucky to make it to 40.

If you survived past childhood, and kept away from doctors and their leeches, you'd actually live to a respectable age back then, Newton for example lived past 80. It's infant mortality that pulled the average age down.

djones520 wrote:

sebster wrote:It's pretty common in the material that inspired WHFB that great men would live much longer lives. In LotR for instance, Aragorn and other high men would make it past 100 fairly regularly.

Aragorn was a Numenorian though. His race was granted long lives by the Aiur as a reward for the sacrifices they made in the war against Morgoth.

Yes, he was. Ultimately it's just background detail explaining why he, like heroic characters in many fantasy settings, lived an unusually long life. Which was my point, the heroic characters in fantasy settings typically have very long lives, and Sigmar is just another in that sequence.


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Freman Bloodglaive wrote:If you survived past childhood, and kept away from doctors and their leeches, you'd actually live to a respectable age back then, Newton for example lived past 80. It's infant mortality that pulled the average age down.

Absolutely. Thing with Sigmar, though, was that he was still fighting fit at 80, when he headed off into the Chaos wastes to fight one last time. I'm not sure Newton was capable of the same at that age

hahah.
NO

sebster wrote:

djones520 wrote:

sebster wrote:It's pretty common in the material that inspired WHFB that great men would live much longer lives. In LotR for instance, Aragorn and other high men would make it past 100 fairly regularly.

Aragorn was a Numenorian though. His race was granted long lives by the Aiur as a reward for the sacrifices they made in the war against Morgoth.

Yes, he was. Ultimately it's just background detail explaining why he, like heroic characters in many fantasy settings, lived an unusually long life. Which was my point, the heroic characters in fantasy settings typically have very long lives, and Sigmar is just another in that sequence.


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Freman Bloodglaive wrote:If you survived past childhood, and kept away from doctors and their leeches, you'd actually live to a respectable age back then, Newton for example lived past 80. It's infant mortality that pulled the average age down.

Absolutely. Thing with Sigmar, though, was that he was still fighting fit at 80, when he headed off into the Chaos wastes to fight one last time. I'm not sure Newton was capable of the same at that age

I can't remember the guys name but there was this British man on CBC who was 99 years old, who beat up a much younger person that was tying to mug him. This guy at 99 years of age also did some running marathons while taking brief

brakes for a smoke or a pint of beer. Old people can do amazing physical feats too.

Cheesecat wrote:I can't remember the guys name but there was this British man on CBC who was 99 years old, who beat up a much younger person that was tying to mug him. This guy at 99 years of age also did some running marathons while taking brief

brakes for a smoke or a pint of beer. Old people can do amazing physical feats too.

I'm not really sure what an old person today doing something remarkably athletic has to do with the trope of heroic characters being unusually long lived. While elderly people can be remarkably healthy, no person at the age of 80 could be considered one of our greatest warriors... it's an idea of high fantasy.

Lexx wrote:Yeah he had parents in the back-story. Far as I can remember. Unless you want to do the superman cliche of finding the baby in a crater....

Except for that whole thing about there being an actual night of his birth with him popping out of his mother and everything.

Unless you want to come up with a reason why the Chaos Gods would reverse age a baby and put him INTO a woman to be born yet didn't do it to the OTHER Primarchs, there's no way Sigmar's a Primarch(at least not by today's fluff).

sebster wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:I can't remember the guys name but there was this British man on CBC who was 99 years old, who beat up a much younger person that was tying to mug him. This guy at 99 years of age also did some running marathons while taking brief

brakes for a smoke or a pint of beer. Old people can do amazing physical feats too.

I'm not really sure what an old person today doing something remarkably athletic has to do with the trope of heroic characters being unusually long lived. While elderly people can be remarkably healthy, no person at the age of 80 could be considered one of our greatest warriors... it's an idea of high fantasy.

You don't have to be the greatest fighter in order to fight.

Cheesecat wrote:You don't have to be the greatest fighter in order to fight.

Are you saying Sigmar headed off to close the gate once and for all with his zimmer frame?

sebster wrote:

Cheesecat wrote:You don't have to be the greatest fighter in order to fight.

Are you saying Sigmar headed off to close the gate once and for all with his zimmer frame?

Yes.

Old people can do amazing physical feats too.

Nearly all centurians do stuff like run marathons, sky dive, Lift weights, Ect., ect, ect. Stuff you wouldn't normally associate as something people so old could do. It seems staying active helps their body and more importantly their mind, keep running.

there's no way Sigmar's a Primarch(at least not by today's fluff).

What about his FATHER? it's possible he's the grandson of the emprah?

People miss some pretty important links as far as relics go too.

Star-metal references, certain magical weapons, the old ones and the "starships" they travelled in.

The most important link that deamnds recognition that the worlds were, at one point, linked is the Dark Elf Power Fist.
Str 8 and ASL on a Dark Elf? Yeah.

personally, I like the idea of them being linked.

And they are!

The Old Ones in 40k are the same Old Ones in Fantasy and the whole Warp-Gate collapse is what ties these settings together. Heck, the Elves and Eldar have exactly the same gods, there is no difference between deamons and Chaos gods in these settings... There is a link for sure, but I very much doubt that the warhammer world is a planet in 40k. I find it more likely that both universes are separated by the Realm of Chaos.

The Elves and the Eldar having the same gods and the Old ones being the same surely mean its linked.

Sigmar =/= primarch. read Heldenhammer and you will find out he was born naturally just like every other human being. Aswell he did not go North he went East.

GW changes the fluff frequently. That means that in threads like this everybody gets to be right (and wrong to boot). In my mind debating what fluff is correct is a vain attempt, as it has continuously changed in the past, and will keep doing so in the future.

In short, it's the argument we've heard before: blah blah blah blah whatever sells models blah blah.

RaptorsTallon wrote:The Elves and the Eldar having the same gods and the Old ones being the same surely mean its linked.

No, it means that both fantasy universes were created by the same people, in tandem, with some of them holding the idea that the two universes are linked.

GW made the choice to seperate the two universes at some point. This was largely so they could rewrite the backstory of some 40K races without changing their fantasy counterparts. Note the changes made to orks, and try to reconcile those techno-savant fungal things with fantasy orcs.

Now, at some point they may even decide it's best if the two universes were re-aligned. Who knows? But as of right now all we know is that they were developed by roughly the same people over roughly the same time, sharing many common elements, until GW eventually said 'these are seperate things entirely' and re-envisioned elements of one setting to become much different to the other.

another connection is the old ones. They are obvi huge in the fantasy story arc but, tehy are also mentioned in 40k. In fact their disappearnce is explained and that is that the C'Tan destroyed them

lukesdabest wrote:another connection is the old ones. They are obvi huge in the fantasy story arc but, tehy are also mentioned in 40k. In fact their disappearnce is explained and that is that the C'Tan destroyed them

Yes they're in both. Because, again, the two settings were developed in parallel, and this is why there are many, many similarities between the two settings. But GW moved away from that process, and now considers them seperate. Which is why the new setting elements brought in from that point have shifted the two settings apart.

Yes the warhammer world is in 40k universe-but cant be reached except via the realm of chaos (The poles) -this allows rare techno-weapons (viewed as magic items) to be granted to chaos champions/the same daemons to exist in both settings.
No access for warp travel so no marines or chaos fleets.
It is not in or near the eye of terror but is surrounded by some sort of interference that i cant remember -its all in the original realm of chaos books.
some one was talking about how you could not have an army book for chaos and fantasy today due to size, but the roc books (x2) were each 3-4 times the thickness of today's books.
Sigmar's age and still fighting-hes supposed to be a god/demigod so whats the problem???

jprp wrote:Yes the warhammer world is in 40k universe-but cant be reached except via the realm of chaos (The poles) -this allows rare techno-weapons (viewed as magic items) to be granted to chaos champions/the same daemons to exist in both settings.
No access for warp travel so no marines or chaos fleets.

No, that's not the official stance. It's cool if you like and like to think of it that way, but it isn't 'how it is'.

No. I had a discussion with the GW staff. No. It does not exist.

It doest matter what the staff say, most of them are young kids with little knowledge of the products-read the realm of chaos books and original 40k then come back with a comment.

The best way to describe the difference between the two universes is to look at their one parallel.

The Chaos Gods.


40k to all intents and purposes plagiarises the mthology of the Warhammer world, its just the same as if another company did it, except without the lawsuits.

40K has the smwe gods as Warhammer but you neednt concern yourself if thre universes are connected in canon because that is irrelevant. GW recycled the mythology to let one size fit all.


Back ages ago crossovers were attempted, just as there were crosovers into Talisman. Nothing shouold be read into that. khorne champions and further back Amazons could have laser weaponry, but again this just reused the rules for laspistols it did not create a cross reference except for conveneince of what types of guns cross over and how thety work. In fact the amazons with laser pistols predates 40K in its entirity.

Crossovers still exist even relatively recently. The rewards for thr Albion campaign are thinly disguiseed 40K wargear.

Orlanth wrote:The best way to describe the difference between the two universes is to look at their one parallel.

The Chaos Gods.


40k to all intents and purposes plagiarises the mthology of the Warhammer world, its just the same as if another company did it, except without the lawsuits.

40K has the smwe gods as Warhammer but you neednt concern yourself if thre universes are connected in canon because that is irrelevant. GW recycled the mythology to let one size fit all.


Back ages ago crossovers were attempted, just as there were crosovers into Talisman. Nothing shouold be read into that. khorne champions and further back Amazons could have laser weaponry, but again this just reused the rules for laspistols it did not create a cross reference except for conveneince of what types of guns cross over and how thety work. In fact the amazons with laser pistols predates 40K in its entirity.

Crossovers still exist even relatively recently. The rewards for thr Albion campaign are thinly disguiseed 40K wargear.

Different universe same evils.

It's just fiction, you don't expect it to be original. You just want it to be rehashed in a different way that is new enough. So it plagiarizing its own stuff, so what? It gave it a new twist with who follows the gods and where they come from and all that.

They are seperate now that's all that matters.

I've heard all the following:

1. WHF takes place on a world that is inaccessible to anyone/anything from the 40k universe.

2. WHF takes place in The Emperor's mind.

3. WHF is 40k a long time ago.

I like 1 the most. 3 is obviously the hardest to attempt to justify.

1. was the official GW cannon until they said yeah no lets seperate them.