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The Strange Dude wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Right, I think this question has to be split.

What is the most amount of anti-tank carnage you can put on a unit you'd reasonably consider fielding? Yeah, probably sternguard with combi-melta, or some terminators with some chainfists or the boradside broadside.

as for killy-per-point, I'd have to say the imperial guard priest. 3 re-rolling meltabomb attacks for 65 points? Yes please.

Don't you only get 1 attack per model when using grenades?

He's saying that an eviscerator is like getting 3 melta bomb attacks. It's not quite, of course. 13 is the middle of the bell curve for 2d6+6. 15 is the middle of the curve for 2d6+8. That's significant.

Still going with the uber long fang squad over the broadsides because of the mulitrole ability. How many broadsides can you put in a squad? In an army list you can also squeeze a termie into the long fang squad and two rune priests but we're talking a huge squad at that point, lots of points, and chosen special rule of the day for giggles. If broadsides are a unit of three, twinlinked 10 1's, Id rather take the moveable (chosen rule relentless from logan) 10 missles, or give them tank hunters and a few las cannons instead of straight missles. plus the rune priests psychic powers. Pure single turn tank hunting, maybe broadsides, overall effectivenes (with huge point variability) logans longfangs of doom.

Well then all this mean as another condition is, do tanks count as 'units' as per the OP's post?

Although devastating, the Logan/Long Fang trick is a bit too expensive to be able to compare to some of the other AT in here IMHO. For example, he can create str10 or ap1 lascannons, but broadsides already have that. Twin linked.

Personally, I still remain adamant that broadsides are the best: Cheap, twin-linked, long-range, high str, AP1, can move and shoot and are tough. The problem with many melta units is that they can be 'shut down' through their transport being destroyed or simply unable to get close enough. Broadsides have little to no flaws when it comes to tank-hunting...

willydstyle wrote:

The Strange Dude wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Right, I think this question has to be split.

What is the most amount of anti-tank carnage you can put on a unit you'd reasonably consider fielding? Yeah, probably sternguard with combi-melta, or some terminators with some chainfists or the boradside broadside.

as for killy-per-point, I'd have to say the imperial guard priest. 3 re-rolling meltabomb attacks for 65 points? Yes please.

Don't you only get 1 attack per model when using grenades?

He's saying that an eviscerator is like getting 3 melta bomb attacks. It's not quite, of course. 13 is the middle of the bell curve for 2d6+6. 15 is the middle of the curve for 2d6+8. That's significant.

Priest is only S3.

And an eviscerator doubles the model's strength and adds another d6.

Broadsides hands down imo

- S10 AP1
- Twin-linked
- 72" range (no having to expose yourself to angry CC units that are looking for revenge for putting a big hole in the side of thier ride)
- can benefit from marker lights to reduce or remove cover saves
- can be equipped to be able to individually target seperate units, giving the possibility for one unit to kill 3 seperate vehicles a turn.

Ediin wrote:Leman Russ Vanquisher with Multi-meltas, Lascannon, Hunter-killer Missile and Commander Pask.

This. Although broadsides are cheaper

I kid. This is about the best since you can fire every single weapon at the same tank and most likely kill it with something. If you aren't killing, you're doing it wrong.

Broadsides, for the range of twin linked railguns (six feet of str. 10 AP1 !), and that depending on how they're equipped, they can move & shoot, or shoot at two different targets, or both. That last option (for a two man/fish thing) would be around 165 points for two broadsides with advanced stabilization systems and one HW target lock. Two tanks a turn for roughly the cost of one tank? Yes please.

willydstyle wrote:And an eviscerator doubles the model's strength and adds another d6.

Melta bombs are only S6. I know, I was shocked when I found out too.

I think you missed this:

willydstyle wrote:It's not quite, of course. 13 is the middle of the bell curve for 2d6+6. 15 is the middle of the curve for 2d6+8. That's significant.

Fafnir wrote:

willydstyle wrote:And an eviscerator doubles the model's strength and adds another d6.

Melta bombs are only S6. I know, I was shocked when I found out too.

Funny my 5th ed meltabombs are S8. BRB p 63.

Melta bombs are S8+2d6.
Kraks are S6+1d6.
Frags are S4+1d6.

At least if I'm reading this right.

For price effectiveness, MM land speeders. For a small cost you get a fast moving MM with the ability to deepstrike if you want!

Melissia wrote:Melta bombs are S8+2d6.
Kraks are S6+1d6.
Frags are S4+1d6.

At least if I'm reading this right.

Yes, that's correct, unless I am so hopelessly out of the loop that I may as well quit now.

Or chalk it up as a learning experience and carry on. Either/or.

Right, the eviscerator is 2 points of strength lower than a meltabomb, but an average of 13 is still pretty darn good, especially given that you're hitting rear armor all the time. More importantly, they're rerollable.

For a unit that averages 13 on armor penetration, has 3 attacks, gets to use WS against walkers, auto-hits stationary vehicles, hits moving vehicles 75% of the time, ignores cover, SMF, and those obnoxious serpent shields, and always strikes rear armor (while doing other cool things like letting other people's meltabombs reroll), all wrapped in a 4++ for 65 points?

Sounds like a great deal to me.

Nurglitch wrote:Or chalk it up as a learning experience and carry on. Either/or.

It was a joke, old boy.

"Joke"? Does not compute.

And so it begins...
To the ships!

Ailaros wrote:Right, the eviscerator is 2 points of strength lower than a meltabomb, but an average of 13 is still pretty darn good, especially given that you're hitting rear armor all the time. More importantly, they're rerollable.

For a unit that averages 13 on armor penetration, has 3 attacks, gets to use WS against walkers, auto-hits stationary vehicles, hits moving vehicles 75% of the time, ignores cover, SMF, and those obnoxious serpent shields, and always strikes rear armor (while doing other cool things like letting other people's meltabombs reroll), all wrapped in a 4++ for 65 points?

Sounds like a great deal to me.

It's still one T3 wound. A tactical marine strikes first and has a significant chance to kill the priest, though if he doesn't the tac squad will surely take some damage. I agree that it's a bargain-basement cost for an effective anti-vehicle model, but I also bet on him up against a dread.

IG vets with three melta guns under the "Bring it Down!" order via a senior officer or Bastonne. Bonus points if they have meltabombs.

Although I am mostly a loyal servant of the God-Emperor now ( IG ), I have never been disappointed by Obliterators. Terminator saves, option to Deep Strike, Fearless and you can choose your weapon each turn? Yes, please . For extra fun park them in cover ( woods, ruins etc. ) to seriously frustrate your opponent.

Have I missed this? Why have I not seen a battle wagon with a deff rolla yet? That's right, battle wagon with a deff rolla. D6 str10 hits to any vehicle it rams. Also not forgetting the thing can carry 20 orks lol. I know, not very useful in the grand scheme of things but it's funny as hell and yes, I would actually do it.

15 Tankbustas with 3 Tankhammers in assault, as well as a power klaw on the nob.

You mind as well just remove that tank.

Ninjabiscuit wrote:Have I missed this? Why have I not seen a battle wagon with a deff rolla yet? That's right, battle wagon with a deff rolla. D6 str10 hits to any vehicle it rams. Also not forgetting the thing can carry 20 orks lol. I know, not very useful in the grand scheme of things but it's funny as hell and yes, I would actually do it.

Actually someone has already said Deff Rolla/Battlewagon. Even so, it's too short ranged to be 'best'.

Ninjabiscuit wrote:Have I missed this? Why have I not seen a battle wagon with a deff rolla yet? That's right, battle wagon with a deff rolla. D6 str10 hits to any vehicle it rams. Also not forgetting the thing can carry 20 orks lol. I know, not very useful in the grand scheme of things but it's funny as hell and yes, I would actually do it.

Because it's easily countered and avoided as long as you have tanks of your own.

Yes, it actually is *useful* in the grand scheme of things, because it forces your opponent to play how you want him to play.

Actually someone has already said Deff Rolla/Battlewagon. Even so, it's too short ranged to be 'best'.

Well poop. I never said the best per say just the most fun. I have used broadsides and would pretty much agree on the effectiveness of them. Target locks just make them ridiculous, screw advanced stabilizers. Just park them in cover because the range of the rail gun is the advantage and with true LOS most vehicles can never hide anyway.

Zoanthropes.

I would say a Chaos Havoc Squad with 2 multi-meltas and 2 las-cannon, I have taken a Monolith out witha single multi-melta shot as it landed abit to close yo me.

In coming Party Pooper!!

LordWynne wrote:I would say a Chaos Havoc Squad with 2 multi-meltas and 2 las-cannon, I have taken a Monolith out witha single multi-melta shot as it landed abit to close yo me.

You can't get multi-melta's in Chaos Havocs and even so many other things can (arguably) tank hunt better, on the move, for less.

Nurglitch wrote:Zoanthropes.

Short range, nullification, perils or the warp and reliance on deep strike says otherwise.

Ninjabiscuit wrote:

Actually someone has already said Deff Rolla/Battlewagon. Even so, it's too short ranged to be 'best'.

Well poop. I never said the best per say just the most fun. I have used broadsides and would pretty much agree on the effectiveness of them. Target locks just make them ridiculous, screw advanced stabilizers. Just park them in cover because the range of the rail gun is the advantage and with true LOS most vehicles can never hide anyway.

Well for fun things, yeah Deff-Rolla's are good! Hell, if we were arguing fun then Broadsides might not even be on the list! Bt we're on about best, not most fun.

and with that, the pooping of the party is done...