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kirsanth wrote:

IvanTih wrote:The fact that an organic being uses gravity of a star system to achieve FTL(again organic).

As opposed to an organic being capable of instantaneous teleportation, like the imperium has?

The Imperium does not have instantaneous teleportation. It takes years to get across the galaxy.

Kirsanth: im more than familiar with zoats mate
Got 5 of them myself (origional models) and converted up 5 more from the previous plastic cold ones (DE) and ogres. (with alot of spare nid parts)


However, just seeing that makes me want older nids back, mainly stealer cults.

Zoats...You mean Hive Guard?

Thats the way its going nurgly.
Just slightly more nidlike in thier looks and abilities.


Still think nids should get a slaver and a unit of basic guard as troop choices. (can actually field stealer cults again then)

IvanTih wrote:

Amaya wrote:I don't see what's wrong with it.

The fact that an organic being uses gravity of a star system to achieve FTL(again organic).

It's not even that, its how does monofilimant spines tap into a gravity well across the galaxy? It's like they think String Theory involves actual strings you can pull on to go faster!


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Nurglitch wrote:

Retribution wrote:I'll never understand the fascination with the plausibility of pseudo-science from universes that openly promote friggin MAGIC (and demons, and space whales, and literal god-entities...)

The fascination is the same as the fascination with the plausibility of science in universes that openly promote magic (and ghosts, and aliens, and literal god-entities...). People like to talk about how worlds 'work'.

Anyhow, read this:
http://nitessine.wordpress.com/2008/05/19/argumentum-ad-fireballum/

That's why I prefer Sci-Fi to Fantasy. I find in Fantasy you really can use "because its magic!" to explain everything.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The Imperium does not have instantaneous teleportation.

The gate of infinity does what?

kirsanth wrote:

IvanTih wrote:The fact that an organic being uses gravity of a star system to achieve FTL(again organic).

As opposed to an organic being capable of instantaneous
teleportation, like the imperium has?

I know,but teleportation in 40k doesn't work on ST principle,but instead transports you through warp.
In earlier fluff 'Nids used warp.

kirsanth wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The Imperium does not have instantaneous teleportation.

The gate of infinity does what?

...I don't know. What is that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IvanTih wrote:

kirsanth wrote:

IvanTih wrote:The fact that an organic being uses gravity of a star system to achieve FTL(again organic).

As opposed to an organic being capable of instantaneous
teleportation, like the imperium has?

I know,but teleportation in 40k doesn't work on ST principle,but instead transports you through warp.
In earlier fluff 'Nids used warp.

Ya, but I think back then they just sort of randomly drifted through the Warp. So when they popped out it wasn't really anywhere specific. They probably still do that. I think the Narvhal is an attempt to give them a more strategic side. Like "hey that Narvhal's going to Maggrage everyone follow him."

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

kirsanth wrote:The gate of infinity does what?

...I don't know. What is that?

A psychic power that lets Space Marines teleport.

kirsanth wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

kirsanth wrote:The gate of infinity does what?

...I don't know. What is that?

A psychic power that lets Space Marines teleport.

Ah yes, while that is kinda stupid it involves warpcraft. Basically when dealing with warpcraft you can break the laws of physics becasue it involves a dimension that has no laws of physics.

The thing with the Narvhal is it has nothing to do with the immatarium. It's supposed to be using our laws of physics.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:supposed to be using our laws of physics.

What would ever prompt them to do that?!?

Nurglitch wrote:

Retribution wrote:I'll never understand the fascination with the plausibility of pseudo-science from universes that openly promote friggin MAGIC (and demons, and space whales, and literal god-entities...)

The fascination is the same as the fascination with the plausibility of science in universes that openly promote magic (and ghosts, and aliens, and literal god-entities...). People like to talk about how worlds 'work'.

Anyhow, read this:
http://nitessine.wordpress.com/2008/05/19/argumentum-ad-fireballum/

Interesting read, thanks

It is almost as ridiculous as the song "scatman's world"

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Anavrin wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Furthermore a person falling on earth has a terminal velocity of 195 kph. Don't know how a Narvhal's bigger mass effects that equation but were talking about 100 of kphs as opposed to the many times the speed of light that thing seems to be clocking.

There's no terminal velocity in space to speak of, so it could keep accelerating to within a fraction of the speed of light.

It's using the gravity of its target planet so it would be the planets terminal velocity.

I think you've got the wrong idea of what terminal velocity is. Terminal velocity is the maximum speed an object can travel through a medium at a certain amount of force. This means that terminal velocity isn't constant for all objects. Additionally, in a volume of space where there is no medium to fall through, such as Space, there is no terminal velocity since the acceleration does not have any drag, instead in Space you get relativity.

Sorry for going off on a tangent.

Mahtamori wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Anavrin wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Furthermore a person falling on earth has a terminal velocity of 195 kph. Don't know how a Narvhal's bigger mass effects that equation but were talking about 100 of kphs as opposed to the many times the speed of light that thing seems to be clocking.

There's no terminal velocity in space to speak of, so it could keep accelerating to within a fraction of the speed of light.

It's using the gravity of its target planet so it would be the planets terminal velocity.

I think you've got the wrong idea of what terminal velocity is. Terminal velocity is the maximum speed an object can travel through a medium at a certain amount of force. This means that terminal velocity isn't constant for all objects. Additionally, in a volume of space where there is no medium to fall through, such as Space, there is no terminal velocity since the acceleration does not have any drag, instead in Space you get relativity.

Sorry for going off on a tangent.

Don't apologize that's what I'm trying to get into. I hadn't thought about the drag of the atmosphere but still after all is said and done and lets say after the Narvhal falls into the gravity (which still doesn't make sense) it gets like an extra 1000 mph. That's still nothing, it needs like 1000 miles per second.

Frazzled wrote:

tylermenz wrote:Actually, Artificial Gravity is probably just as unrealistic, but more necessary within the sci fi realm.

Assuming that technology is advanced enough to create artificial gravity, the propulsion system is actually quite feasible. you just need to create a large gravity well in front of your fleet and continue to move it forward iin order to conitously fall faster and faster towards the system.

Based on that, if you then add in the assumption that the amount of gravity is relatively fixed (such as a law of conservation of mass and energy) then you would need to pull the gravity from somewhere, namely the destination system would be easiest.

As far as the effects on the system, totally believable if the amount that gravity pulled was lessened throughout the entire system. The sun's and earth's cores are under extreme pressure which will push out rather catostophically if gavity is lessened, thus creating solar flares, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, etc

Of course that means they are likely limited to the speed of light or less, which means it would take them 900 gazillion years to get anywhere. As such they would be a nonexistent threat when the Imperium has warp technology. They could launch fleet after fleet year after year at the various threats, or just move the organic life out of the way of the tenrdils starving them.

Its a jump the weiner dog moment.

Actually, assuming you believe in Einstiens Theory of Space Time, then it wouldnt take forever, and actually you could do it quite quickly. You see, gravity distorts space time. So it is like when you place a very heavy weight on a stretched out thin piece of rubber. It pulls the rubber down into the inside of a cone, and if one were to travel around the inner edge of the cone instead of done and out, the distance you travel is shorter than the actual distance that the two points would be if there was no gravity well.

Also, considering that there is also a time dilation effect while travelling extremely fast, AND while being near an extremely heavy object, although it may seem to outsiders that many years pass to the tyranids, it would be less.

tylermenz wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

tylermenz wrote:Actually, Artificial Gravity is probably just as unrealistic, but more necessary within the sci fi realm.

Assuming that technology is advanced enough to create artificial gravity, the propulsion system is actually quite feasible. you just need to create a large gravity well in front of your fleet and continue to move it forward iin order to conitously fall faster and faster towards the system.

Based on that, if you then add in the assumption that the amount of gravity is relatively fixed (such as a law of conservation of mass and energy) then you would need to pull the gravity from somewhere, namely the destination system would be easiest.

As far as the effects on the system, totally believable if the amount that gravity pulled was lessened throughout the entire system. The sun's and earth's cores are under extreme pressure which will push out rather catostophically if gavity is lessened, thus creating solar flares, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, etc

Of course that means they are likely limited to the speed of light or less, which means it would take them 900 gazillion years to get anywhere. As such they would be a nonexistent threat when the Imperium has warp technology. They could launch fleet after fleet year after year at the various threats, or just move the organic life out of the way of the tenrdils starving them.

Its a jump the weiner dog moment.

Actually, assuming you believe in Einstiens Theory of Space Time, then it wouldnt take forever, and actually you could do it quite quickly. You see, gravity distorts space time. So it is like when you place a very heavy weight on a stretched out thin piece of rubber. It pulls the rubber down into the inside of a cone, and if one were to travel around the inner edge of the cone instead of done and out, the distance you travel is shorter than the actual distance that the two points would be if there was no gravity well.

Also, considering that there is also a time dilation effect while travelling extremely fast, AND while being near an extremely heavy object, although it may seem to outsiders that many years pass to the tyranids, it would be less.

That's fine, but The Tyranids are one of the only races that really don't care about time passed. How much time has actually passed for the target planet is all that matters.

If a Narvhal is able to produce something similar to an Alcubierre metric then it could well be possible to arrive at a target system within a reasonable amount of 'time'.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
It's using the gravity of its target planet so it would be the planets terminal velocity.

Planets don't have a terminal velocity, just a gravitational force. Terminal velocity is determined by the force of gravitational acceleration on an object versus its resistance to the medium it's traveling through. Space has an extremely low density, and so provides almost no resistance.

Edit - Someone else already said this, my bad.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

Amaya wrote:I don't see what's wrong with it.

The fact that an organic being uses gravity of a star system to achieve FTL(again organic).

It's not even that, its how does monofilimant spines tap into a gravity well across the galaxy? It's like they think String Theory involves actual strings you can pull on to go faster!

Actually, gravity is the only one of the four forces which does not stop effecting over distance. You right now can feel the gravity of the moon, the sun, jupiter, alpha centuri, the black hole at the center of the Milky way, as well as the gravity of the entire Andromeda galaxy. The only thing that happens to gravity is that it gets weaker, but never completely disappears. Now how do you tap into that gravity, idk, but that would be where the fiction part of SciFi comes in. Also we still don't know why or how gravity works, so a lot of things are relatively plausible.

Also, faster than night travel does not need to be achieved. Even if Humans were able to get to 1/2 the speed of light we could get to our nearest neighbor in about 10 years.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

That's fine, but The Tyranids are one of the only races that really don't care about time passed. How much time has actually passed for the target planet is all that matters.

Well star density is about 1 star per cubic parsec (that is about 3.26 light years), and that would mean that each star would be about 3.26 years away while travelling the speed of light. Less nearer to the center of the galaxy and farther away the further from the center of the galaxy (for instance the next closest star to earth is a little over 4 light years away)

Another thing that I should give a hard time to but didn't is the Necrons. They also mysteriously can travel at higher speeds than anyone else in 40K without the use of the warp through what is called "frictionless drives"....because y'know space has so much friction in it.

The thing is that's just an excuse for them to say Necrons have super-duper high tech stuff so don't even ask. We can't criticize it because it might as well be magic. That's what's funny about the Narvhal its just exactly the wrong amount of information. Space Whales with monofiliment horns make bugs go fasta!

Anyways, that being said I now actually think Necrons are using your Alcubierre thingabob Gogsnik.