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filbert wrote:
Not sure why with the level of plastic moulding tech metal is still being used. Surely plastic is cheaper and therefore profit per kit is greater? You have to produce moulds and tools for both - albeit the casting method is different - but for companies like GW who have already outlaid for the injection moulding tech, why the hell are they still using metal?

Investment on plastic moulding is another completly diferent universe of prices when comparing to metal moulding mate... sure in the end selling plastic seems more profitable... but dont be fooled by that, the costs of making pastic sprues is only profitable if you get your investment back by huge/ amazing sales numbers. Even GW knows that and its more profitable to make some metal characters than invest on plastic for everything.

Now add that a crappy sale of any GW item outsells full ranges of small companies and you will understand that the investment on metal is a lot less riskiy and a lot less expensive and much more profitable for small companies.

NAVARRO wrote:

filbert wrote:
Not sure why with the level of plastic moulding tech metal is still being used. Surely plastic is cheaper and therefore profit per kit is greater? You have to produce moulds and tools for both - albeit the casting method is different - but for companies like GW who have already outlaid for the injection moulding tech, why the hell are they still using metal?

Investment on plastic moulding is another completly diferent universe of prices when comparing to metal moulding mate... sure in the end selling plastic seems more profitable... but dont be fooled by that, the costs of making pastic sprues is only profitable if you get your investment back by huge/ amazing sales numbers. Even GW knows that and its more profitable to make some metal characters than invest on plastic for everything.

Now add that a crappy sale of any GW item outsells full ranges of small companies and you will understand that the investment on metal is a lot less riskiy and a lot less expensive and much more profitable for small companies.

I take the point but it still doesn't change the fact that metal is fiddly and annoying to work with. For a company the size of GW and considering the investment they have already made in injection moulding infrastructure, they should be producing most, if not all their minis in plastic; after all, even startup companies like Mantic for example, can rapidly produce multi part plastic minis of a high standard and for a reasonable price. If Mantic can do it (and presumably they are turning a profit otherwise they wouldn't bother?) then surely GW can, especially given their sales are much greater.

You can call me a cynic, but a large part of me only thinks that GW carry on producing metal minis purely as a justification for keeping prices artificially high. They can then use the metal mini price as a reason to raise plastic prices to 'bring them in line'

Yeah it really just comes down to start up costs. 1 4"x6" plastic frame will run anywhere from $10-20k to get the molds made. maybe even more. And that's not including paying a sculptor, taking care of packaging and all that other stuff. However yes it is cheaper to cast. One company quoted me at 25 cents per sprue to actually cast it once the molds are done.

Metal on the other hand, while costing a bit more to cast is a very small investment to get started (and therefore a smaller risk) which is why so many small/new companies do metal. Personally I'd love to do my game in all plastic. But at this stage of the game it's just not gonna happen. Mantic's stuff is great, i'm sure they had a real nice bank account or loan to get started with and it's great seeing them be successful. it's very promising. Some day when I can afford it, I'll produce multi part plastic cowboys & indians, but I just don't see that happening anytime soon

Speaking of mantic and their profitability, well i dont know the sales numbers and neither their investment loans etc I only wish them the best of luck because the first years are critical for any new company... the bigger the risk you know the rest...

Edit: just to get a general idea of costs, for the price on one plastic sprue you can make a really big range of metal miniatures for some years... Its a no brainer why people starting up go metal... if things dont sell well you dont have to sell your house to pay up the debts.

I always pin all parts of my metal models and after putting together a unit of 10 warmachine nyss hunter mercenaries that are 7 parts each(the demented sculptor even made the sword handles for the sheathed swords separate parts instead of molding a new scabbard with the handle included) I can say I'd at least like to see the heads on the bodies and the two arms together. I like the idea of models with some variability but a balance must be made.

Dais wrote:I always pin all parts of my metal models and after putting together a unit of 10 warmachine nyss hunter mercenaries that are 7 parts each(the demented sculptor even made the sword handles for the sheathed swords separate parts instead of molding a new scabbard with the handle included) I can say I'd at least like to see the heads on the bodies and the two arms together. I like the idea of models with some variability but a balance must be made.

The handles are seperate so they didn't need to sculpt an entirely new scabbard for those Nyss holding a bow and those holding their claymores. Still fiddly and gorram annoying, but there's a reason at least.

I recently started dabbling in Malifaux and have really remembered quickly how annoying metal models really are, especially smaller, slender models. I would probably be very annoyed with a line of models that were really modular like a GW sprue but all metal.

Necros wrote:Well the current plan is to have a pack of "henchmen" for your gang. It will come with 4 different torsos & heads, 4 different legs, and 6-8 different pairs of arms on a little sprue, so that people could equip their gang members however they like.

The idea being, the arm sprues could be used for other releases, the bodies & arms could be reused for models on horseback where I'd just need to get horses and horse rider legs done, stuff like that.

I know I want to be able to offer the different arms, so I guess the real question is, would it be worth doing the separate bodies like that or would folks prefer a single whole body?

I was planning 1 gang leader for each faction, and then they'd both use the same henchmen pack. So, the latter would probably mean having more sculpts done (and more sculpting costs) to give each faction 5 unique models to start with.

....What kinda gang rides horses.... you dont see the bloods running through the streets on ponies do you ;/

I betcha if the cripps and bloods were around in 1870, they'd use horses & buggies amish style for all their drive-by shenanigans