Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Lol. So far I've offered some help in terms of mathhammering out some numbers. I've added more to this thread than you have.

Your criticism to me could have been in a PM, so as to not waste people's time with your antics. But instead, you need to prove how tough you can be on the internet. Good for you. You stood up to the big meany that told the OP his question is unanswerable without context. Way to go.

Stop the flaming. Please. You sound like a bunch of 10 year olds fighting over who is right about a question on opinions, which are personal and therefore neither right, nor wrong.

Back on topic:

As mentioned before, one lucky shot may kill a vehicle of any kind, FP included. It definately takes more than one shot to down a wraithlord.

The main problem with wraithlords, is that most opponents will target them instantly before they can get in CC, cause once they do and with their chosen target, its going to hurt.

So it really depends on your list. Don't take WL in fast mech lists, they'll fall behind or be forced to babysit guardians (wraithsight is a big disadvantage in fast lists)
In footslogging list, take them if they fit into your plan and can positively contribute to the battle.

And just think of this, if your opponent spends an entire turn shooting with everything he has at a 130 point wraithlord, then he hasn't been shooting at anything else

@Dracos: Oh yea because I really need to prove how tough I am to someone I will never even see. Yeah that's me 100%, yet you'll notice I'm not the one who is reverting to immature/uninformed comments, and notice I'm not the one attacking people in an unwaranted aggressive manner.

The fact is you have not helped the OP, you have not answered his question (which if it was unanswerable others woulden't have answered it). So you helped (if you can all it that) with a math error that someone else would have caught and would have handled in a proper manner. All you have done is get in the way of those who are helping him and been aggressive in the process. Nothing you have done has been of any real use to the thread.

You think it can't be answered unless the OP says what else he has or is wanting to take. Fine, think that no one is making you post in the thread. But don't get in the way of others who are actually being of use.

It's obvious you are going to just keep getting in the way so I'm going to quit trying to convince you to stay out of a situation in which you aren't doing anything.

To everyone else I apologise that this has gotten off track. Hopefully it will get back on track and deffinitly will if Dracos is ignored which he should be.

@ Lord Rogukiel: I apologise if telling someone they aren't doing any good makes me sound like a 10 year old

So you're done with the flame posts then?

*climbs up onto moral high-ground*

Are you both done with the flame posts then?

@OP, have you managed to decide how you feel about the WraithLord yet?

here is my list


2500 point
----------------HQ--------------------------------------------------------------

Eldrad Ulthran

Farseer
Runes of Witnessing
Spirit Stones
Fortune
Doom
Mind War
Jetbike

Jetbike Warlock Bodyguard (5)
Enhance
Embolden
Destructor (3)
Singing Spear


------------------------------------Troops------------------------------------------------------
Dire Avengers (10)
Exarch with Diresword and Shuriken Pistol
Defend
Bladestorm

Guardians Jetbike Squadron (3)

Guardians (10)
Warlock
Conceal
Bright Lance

-------------------------------------Elites----------------------------------------------------------
Howling Banshees (10)
Exarch with Executioner
Acrobatic
War Shout


Harlequin Troupe (10)
Troupe Master with Power Weapon and Fusion Pistol
Shadowseer
Death Jester
Harlequin’s Kisses (8)
Fusion Pistol


Fire Dragons (5)

------------------------------------Transport-------------------------------------------------------
Wave Serpent
Twin – linked Bright Lances
Sprit Stones


Wave Serpent
Twin – linked Eldar Missile Launchers
Sprit Stones


¬------------------------------------Heavy Support----------------------------------------------
Fire Prism/ Night spinner *2
Holofields
Spirit Stones


Wraithlord
Bright lance
Eldar Missile Launcher
Flamers – Free (2)



Grand Total – 2500

Replace Farseer with Avatar of Khiane or Yriel Prince of Iyanden


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Dracos and Just Dave: i really appreciate your help guys but i'd rather the models fighting rather than you two so both of you please be nice (not matter how tempting it is)

Against the new DE, it is more a liability. Poisoned weapons kill it with ease.
However, against other armies like SM it still can be a brick.

yeah... how would one deal with poisoned weps? my friend runs Nids and the toxin sacs could be an issue

Cover save providing screening unit? I'm pretty sure that the plethora of DE poisoned weapons are going to put MC's in general in a spot of hurt. In your 2500 list, I'd run 2 prisms and 1 spinner, assuming you have them, or even 3 prisms. With stones and fields, their survivability is pretty top notch and they can dish out respectable damage firing individually. I don't think the WL really has a place in your list other than to absorb fire, really. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I think the 155 points you're spending can be better spent elsewhere.

I won't critique your list as there's other places to get advice on it however I've never managed to make a mix of foot and mech work for Eldar.

I run 2 wraithlords in a footslogging list that also includes the Avatar and 3 War Walkers.

Generally if you ram the fortuned Avatar down your oponents thoat then they usually concentrate their high strength weaponry on him as he's a scarier prospect than the 2 wraithlords.

As others have said in this thread multiples of them work better than one. They do provide some good ranged anti tank firepower if you equip them with BL and EML.

Game wise the tactics above are pretty sound.

Background wise, just say its not alive anyway, so what's poison going to do to psychoplastic?

Wraithlords are difficult to use in a footslogging list but think of it like this, better they get shot at than the rest of your army right? They are pretty damn hard to kill IMO and have 3 wounds for under 150points? That is definately a steal, who cares if it has no ++ save atleast it has a 3+ It can be destructive but mostly I'd use it as a freaking huge meatshield, 1 or 2 of them can last 2-3 turns easy maybe 4+ turns main thing is I think with a footslogging list such as yours keeping your infantry and supporting ranged vehicles is a higher priority than worrying about if the wraithlord even gets into CC still as a meatshield it makes its points back with interest by absorbing firepower rather than something you should care about and it can buy you some time by simply distracting your enemy

Thats a fair comment, but then the question is anti infantry or anti tank?

Black Dragon Ninja wrote:Thats a fair comment, but then the question is anti infantry or anti tank?

I'd say for the sake on not relying on something that is going to be used as a meatshield anti-infantry, hell give it the sword if you want both but leave the shooting as anti-infantry so you can walk him up and shoot.

well if i go anti infantry i was thinking scatter laser and starcannon meaning i've got 6 S6 shots at 36", admittedly the range isn't much (for a Heavy Support choice), but it's not bad in the S department. BTW with the extra 15 points, what should i get for them?

Ghaz+wraithlord=ghaz dinner O.o

Fire Prism is no where = to a wraith lord

Good opponents will shake and move when firing at prism's, you can't do that to a wraith lord.
A wraith lord can take a beating, then still move, shoot and fight or at least influence an area of the battle field, I find the prism to be highly overrated, the cannon isn't great at killing tanks and is ok at killing infantry. The wraith lord is just as good at killing tanks at range, killing infantry with dual flamers then can beat whats left with st 10 attacks. Fire prisms only have a little speed on the lord, thats about it. This is coming from an experienced general, not a math-hammering forum junky.

Also, long fangs do not own wraith lords considering it takes at least 10 missiles to reliably kill one and thats when one is not in cover, double that for one that is. Hardly a case of owning if you ask me.

Bottom line is an aggressive wraith lord will always have more influence on a game than a pop shooting grav tank or a wraith lord that tries to sit back all day and not get stuck in. To get the most out of the lord you need to advance or defend in an aggressive manner and use all of its assets, the big gun the flamers and the strength 10 attacks.

and just like anything else spamming magnifies effectiveness, 1 wraith lord is a pain that can be dealt with, dealing with 3 wraith lords is hard if not impossible for a lot of lists.

IG88 wrote:

Fire Prism is no where = to a wraith lord

Good opponents will shake and move when firing at prism's, you can't do that to a wraith lord.
A wraith lord can take a beating, then still move, shoot and fight or at least influence an area of the battle field, I find the prism to be highly overrated, the cannon isn't great at killing tanks and is ok at killing infantry. The wraith lord is just as good at killing tanks at range, killing infantry with dual flamers then can beat whats left with st 10 attacks. Fire prisms only have a little speed on the lord, thats about it. This is coming from an experienced general, not a math-hammering forum junky.

Also, long fangs do not own wraith lords considering it takes at least 10 missiles to reliably kill one and thats when one is not in cover, double that for one that is. Hardly a case of owning if you ask me.

Bottom line is an aggressive wraith lord will always have more influence on a game than a pop shooting grav tank or a wraith lord that tries to sit back all day and not get stuck in. To get the most out of the lord you need to advance or defend in an aggressive manner and use all of its assets, the big gun the flamers and the strength 10 attacks.

and just like anything else spamming magnifies effectiveness, 1 wraith lord is a pain that can be dealt with, dealing with 3 wraith lords is hard if not impossible for a lot of lists.

OMG. So true.

isn't the entire point of a FP to be long range fire support, it isn't supposed to be in the thick of the fighting (although i'll admit that doesn't alway work) but still WL are mid range fighters while FP's are supposed to blow holes in the opposing army.

BTW how is the FP over rated? it's got the best non Ordinance gun in the game (excluding the Railgun...)

Black Dragon Ninja wrote:isn't the entire point of a FP to be long range fire support, it isn't supposed to be in the thick of the fighting (although i'll admit that doesn't alway work) but still WL are mid range fighters while FP's are supposed to blow holes in the opposing army.

BTW how is the FP over rated? it's got the best non Ordinance gun in the game (excluding the Railgun...)

I posted earlier in this thread, the biggest problem is that you are attempting to compare Green Apples and Red Apples. They SEEM the same but they really aren't.

Neither one of these two units will be in the same competitive list. In isolation, or say a 1v1 game I would rather have a WraithLord than a Fire Prism. But in terms of competitive build and cohenrency with other units I would rather take 2 - 3 fire prisms.

I have 3 prisms in my list, and in a game I played last week against necrons, my best two units were FirePrisms and FireDragons. Having a STR7 AP2 Large Blast, sure hurts ALOT of the Necron units and eliminated WBB. Even the STR6 AP3 Large Blast from 2 Prisms wrechs a MEQ's day.

I have seen a Wraithlord survive combat with a MEQ squad and come out victorius on the other end (after 3 turns). But in terms of sheer killing power, nothing touches the Prism.

And the question is destructive monstrosity or walking target stand? The answer is both. WraithLords kick @ss in every role you give them, but when you are running wraithlords, there are bound to be no other targets for your opponents AT weapons. They will be eating lots of big fire, and maybe that's their role.

I just prefer the versatility (tank shock, ramming and big guns) that is provided by the FirePrism.

Black Dragon Ninja wrote:isn't the entire point of a FP to be long range fire support, it isn't supposed to be in the thick of the fighting (although i'll admit that doesn't alway work) but still WL are mid range fighters while FP's are supposed to blow holes in the opposing army.

BTW how is the FP over rated? it's got the best non Ordinance gun in the game (excluding the Railgun...)

My friend. If it can be shot, it's in the thick of the fighting.

Yeah prisims are by far a better choice to ruin someones day, but like I said if you do take a wraith lord that thing will soakup so much firepower it isnt even funny, thus diverting attention from your militia whom have 12-18inch guns and paper aromor (excluding the guardian jetbikes and paper armor does not apply to dire avengers)

If you can get wraithlords cover then they are a very sturdy unit. Prisms I've found a bit unreliable as an anti-tank platform. I do like their cheaper cost though. To me it depends on what the rest of your list looks like. If you have lots of skimmers then prisms compliment them well. If you have a mixed army then wraithlords perform their role as ranged anti vehicle and close combat support for your troops. Prisms do give you a better shot against blessed hull raiders and monoliths if those are around in your area.

I play chaos pretty much all assault. When my buddy plays eldar he puts Kaine and Wraithlord in front of his army and I gotta assault through both of them. It's a real pain in the ass, then he guns me down afterwords. Wraithlord is pretty good to run straight up to a landraider and go boo!

well, i've been told that i should either go: CC WL, long range Anti infantry or long range anti tank, the current model is kinda doing the splits between infantry and tank specs and i'm wondering what the better is with my army list in mind (see above)

necro post
What works best for me is to put 2 WLs in cover with my battery of D-Cannons and have them surround the hidden cannons. Equip them with EMLs and you have not only an excellent guardian for your D-cannons but also anti-tank. Between the coversave, armor save, and 3 wounds these guys will be in for at least 2-3 turns of firepower. ONLY 115 pts a model!!!
hiding them with your d-cannon battery is essential to combat deep strikers. pop transports with the WLs then have your d-cannon annihilate what comes out of it.

I ran a wraithlord in 1500 point tournament yesterday.
he survived 2/3 games. It may be important to note i also took 2 war walkers and they survived all 3 games.

The wraithlord set-up i chose was scatter laser shurican cannon and the walkers were all scatters. The wraithlord was 120 points, as were the 2 walkers.
I found the walkers to be low priority once my opponents noticed my rolling, 6/16 hits is not a big threat. The wraithlord however took the brunt of enemy shooting but most of the time i was able to get him into cover, or provide cover with careful placement of wave serpents. Considering every shot that was fired at him could have wrecked one of my transports he earnt his place quite easily.

In the first game he managed to come on behind a vindicator (wierd deployment, thats battle missions for you) with his 7 S6 shots he managed to wreck it, he then charged into a unit of CSM and ended up running them down along with their attached sorcerer (which is why you an icon of chaos glory over any of the others) After that he crushed an obliterator into the ground and spend the rest of the game stuck in combat with some death guard. In that game he did exceptionally well, and got very lucky as he did take 6 lascannons to the face and survive.

The second game was where cover proved very important, facing off against 3 obliterators it was a difficult choice for my opponent, shoot at the lord in cover? or the walkers in cover? The lord would be slightly harder to wound, the walkers might only end up being shaken. In the end the opponent gave up and concentrated on my serpents and the tasty morsels held within.

For the third game the lord again took fire, cover proving very usefull against the lascannons coming his way. The only time he was out of cover was to charge a grey hunter unit in order to assasinate a psyker that was disrupting my own psykers. After that the power fist in the unit managed to being him down.

So all in all... just going by those games alone, the wraithlord can be a destructive monstrosity if he gets in the right place, hard to do when he is so slow but if you group together and the enemy comes to you he is a decent counter attack unit, even if kitted out with 2 guns and no sword. Sending him against big units however means he'll likely be there for the rest of the game, or get brought down by power fists. The only reason i see in charging units is to wipe out a small unit, stop a unit claiming an objective by contesting or pulling them away from it with defenders react or charging in with the specific intention of killing a charecter. As for a firebase... use him to compliment the rest of your force. If he is kitted out for anti-tank while the rest or force is anti-infantry then he WILL become a big target and go down quickly, same goes vice versa, depending on your opponets force. If however he is kitted out to simply add to your firepower (scatter lasers on the lord, serpents and walkers) then he wonts stand out as a threat as much and may simply be ignored in favor of something easier to kill.

When it comes to cover saves, i find them essential, even when theres little cover on the board he can sit behind serpent or falcon or prism and still manage to see over the top, or angle him slightly to the side to gain LoS over the curve of the hull. Plus, i WANT my lord to be shot at. He can take at least 3 shots that could kill 3 of my vehicles. One lucky shot on a serpent and its gone, that same lucky shot on a wraithlord and its still standing with 2 wounds.