Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Keep in mind the only thing the BRB says about using 'two special weapons' is that you do not get the extra +1 attack for having a second special CCW. 3 CCW are not covered as has been noted. Nothing is said of a weapons special ability in this case. This is why I initially believed the Djinn blade to not confer the extra +2 attacks just because a person had it in his inventory so to speak.

Because it states the bearer of the blade gets two attacks. Not the person using the blade, but simply having the blade

And in the very next sentence it says a double will cause the blade to rebel against it's wielder.

Then a few words later it switches back to bearer.

Or do you think that means the weapon has a drawback only when you attack with it?

I think the switch from bearer to wielder, and vice versa, means that using the blade is different from holding the blade.

ChrisCP wrote:An archon has 3 wounds, and a 2++ in theory, he should 'kay from just a measly 2 PW attacks.

How on earth are they going to 'kill you outright'?

C'tan, Skulltaker, Greater Daemons of all sorts, Gift of Chaos, Boon of Mutation, Those magical weapons that DaemonHunters get.

Then spread the RAW word. If you choose to purchase a Djin blade, buy another SCCW. That way you get your attacks with that Special CCW, and 2 bonus power weapon attacks.

That seems appallingly silly. Phil Kelly has written Marines before. If he meant it to be like a Servo Arm, he would've written it like one. Also it would be in "other equipment" not "weapons"

Except you cannot do that, as you MUST choose to *use* one weapon. ALL of your attacks are made using the abilities of the weapon being used - if you gain additional attacks from another source these still use the special abilities of the weapon being used.

FOr example mandiblasters additional arent resolved at S3 on a striking scorpion, they get the S4 from their chainblade.

A mandi-blaster isn't a special CCW. It's simply gear that adds +1A.
A Djin blade is a special CCW. Not using it? No +2A

Yet it states the "bearer" gains +2A. Meaning there is no requiremetn to use it, just to own it / have it on the model. Which is the point....

In terms of actual RAW, it seems to hold water. However, if I was going to pull that one in a tournament, I'd get written confirmation from the TO beforehand.

No, the point is that for only 5 points more than a standard power weapon, you get +2A with a downside




Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281421
They can make the position better than I can.

Pretty much, "bearer" isn't defined. And you can't mix and match SCCW abilities per the rules.
Another example. The Animus Vitae. A SCCW, the bearer of which can get pain tokens for kills.

Crevab wrote:No, the point is that for only 5 points more than a standard power weapon, you get +2A with a downside




Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281421
They can make the position better than I can.

Pretty much, "bearer" isn't defined. And you can't mix and match SCCW abilities per the rules.
Another example. The Animus Vitae. A SCCW, the bearer of which can get pain tokens for kills.

I see your point, but the Animus Vitae is partly the reason I changed my mind. You only have to have it on your model. It doesn't have a WS/BS or anything, just that it gives you a pain token for making a kill on a model. While I do think 'Bearer' and 'Wielder' are pretty interchangeable in the english language regarding the Djinn blade, there is still the point of where in BRB does it state you can't mix and match SCCW abilities? It doesn't and thats the final reason I decided to change my opinion on the matter. Also, as I stated before, despite me believing it is supposed to work in this fashion, I would never do it because it's too costly to waste that many points for a few extra attacks.

On a side note somewhat relating to this issue, I find it funny the Archon on the cover of the codex is holding a Soul Trap and Huskblade, yet has 2 more swords on his hip.

In English English "wielding" is actively using, not simply holding - this is a difference to US English.

The BRB simply states you use A weapon's special abilities. This gives a special ability to the bearer, and doesnt require you to use the weapon.

I have been reading and I had a question similar, which I think has been answered by this thread.

If I had a Huskblade and Sissorhand I would not be able to combine the two I would have to choose one and use it in combat....Correct???

I came up with this idea with the intention of finding a way to kill nob bikers with Dark Eldar... i don't see a plausible way to do it yet and hoped that this could be done.

If they are both special CCW you have to choose which one to use.

nosferatu1001 wrote:I think the switch from bearer to wielder, and vice versa, means that using the blade is different from holding the blade.

Alright, after sleep and work, a new look. Blast the inability to post rules, but look at the entry again. When it switches from "bearer" to "wielder" and back again, it refers to the same attacks the whole time. They're using them interchangebly

Well, post the quote, obviously it's essential to the conversation and that's okay~!

Is it? Thought rules brought the GW IP police. Ah well, mods get ready.

"A djin blade is a power weapon. Furthermore, the bearer makes two bonus attacks every round of combat - roll these separately. If any double is rolled for these two attacks when rolling to hit, the blade rebels against its wielder - the two attacks automatically hit the bearer."

Generally small excerpts for a reason are alllowed.

The secodn wielder implies, in English, that it is being used - however 2 lots of bearer indicate it is simply holdnig it that can cause you issues....

So... what? They didn't use wielder enough, so we can ignore its presence?

It depends if the writer was thinking US - English or UK - English, or a mishmash of the two. In us there would be no difference between bearer and wielder, as both can mean "holder" of the item.

The fact they are used interchangeable implies wielder = bearer, ie the more US centric definition.

Not ignoring, assessing and analysing the sentence.

From the codex wording, I would say the Djinn Blade (or Blade Djinn - wording it this way seems to make more sense to me) works like a passive buff, or enchantment. Either that, or I see it as exotic wargear, that act autonomously. My two examples are as follows.

Your Archon has a pistol and Huskblade. He enchants the huskblade with blade djinn, giving the Husk Blade an extra two attacks. This is wooly logic, admittedly, but I'd play against it so there you are.

My second example is an autonomous piece of wargear, separate from the Archon himself (almost like a retinue member, albeit without a statline) but tied to the Archon's mind (hence it uses his BS etc).
The Archon attacks with a pistol and huskblade with 6 dice.
The Blade Djinn then rolls his attacks on two different dice. His attacks count as a power weapon, and completly ignore the Archon's wargear, as he is a separate entity.

Both are probably wrong, but are examples I could be convinced of playing against.

Notice also that the Djinn Blade has a period between calling it a power weapon and the secondary ability. The two are not part of the same sentence. The Husk Blade and Agonizer specifically call out that it is a power weapon that also has yadayadayada.

I think the scissorhand is also an interesting case. It states that it grants +1 attack. Not when wielded or used, just grants +1 attack. You could probably make a case for a scissorhand boosting your attacks even when using another weapon. Notice that the scissor hand is also placed in the special items category and does not replace a weapon.

Haemoculous Ancient with Huskblade and Scissorhand . . . hmmm.