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He's talking about the 13th...

Also, ogres don't care one iota about the skaven nuke spell.

Oscarius wrote:He's talking about the 13th...

Also, ogres don't care one iota about the skaven nuke spell.

ahhh yeah, the 13th is nasty, but aside from a power scroll or grabbing double 6's you really shouldnt let it go off.

Also, the power scroll, at least where I play at is getting banned in the tourny scene.... That item is about half of what it should cost... If it was 55 points it would be fine, since only a lord would be able to take it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Thunderfrog - how is one spell that affects one unit affecting half your army? Especially as it cant even wipe the whole unit out if it is more than 25 models....

How do you get a 25 model cap?
Here's the FAQ.


Q: If a magical vortex ends its move over a unit it is placed 1"
beyond the unit. If this is also over a unit should it be placed 1"
beyond that unit, repeating the process until it is not touching any
models? When this happens, I assume models between where the
magical vortex ended its move and where the template is placed are
not affected by the spell? (p36)
A: Yes to both questions.


Ok, so the free movement from ending on a unit doesn't generate extra hits.
But that doesn't prevent the hits from the normal movement.
So initially, you get a 3" (or 5") template that moves 6" to 30", hitting everything in the path. After that, you get the same template moving 2-10", hitting everything in the path.

Or, are you playing that you place the template, then pick it up and have it land at the final destination?

IMO, the first is correct, as you place, then move, and anything touched is hit. It seems correct for the casting value of the spell.

-Matt

No!

Nostradamus's question was in reference to the Skaven Dreaded 13th spell.

I think.

THATS what I lost a unit of Chaos to. Not stupid Purple Sun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hawaii, you too. the 25 model cap is in reference to the 13th, from the Skaven lore.

Sadly I seem to have jacked the topic with the first part of my post unintentionally.

ogres cant be affected by dreaded 13th, it only works on infantry, which is why all WoC players should fear it. Even if you have >25 bodies in the unit it still kills 4d6 models outright. The only solution I have is kill the guy who casts it; every game I play against skaven has them casting it all game but not getting it off until turn 4 or 5 which makes the whole thing 10x worse.

The daemon list wasnt too bad, with the exception of trying to rely on puple sun. Its not 100% and neither is magic. For dwarfs its pretty much the same problem WoC has with 13th. Even if he only casts it once a turn, eventually its going off, and then youre boned.
I would score very badly against any daemon player who took Karios and/or two units of fleshounds.

Ah, my bad on the 13th vs purple sun confusion.

Warriors of chaos have an answer for the 13th spell.
Puppet & hellcannon. Both seem to take care of that grey seerer problem pretty well.

-Matt

Playing 1000point games with half your points in one unit is nuts - you're playing the deathstar idea. Sorry, play with deathstars and you're asking to be gimped by a bad matchup.

Ogres care not a jot about 13th, not being Infantry and all anymore.

Nosferatu.. the tactics I use aren't really the point here. I seem to have hijacked the thread and that wasnt the point.

The tournament was actually 1250, and so that block was more like 40%, but it's the same difference. 13th is a ridiculous spell, especially with how cheap / easily one can force irresistable.

The purple sun usage was the point of the OP, and I replied to that.

13th/super spells arent really a problem imo...

The problem is the power scroll, way to cheap for how powerful it is.

I can agree with that. I don't see a problem with the 13th and other "super" spells, because they tend to vary in effectiveness against different armies. That, imo, brings them in line enough. An OnG army doesn't care much for losing 4d6 night goblins or orc boyz when the cost of actually getting the 13th off will tend to exceed the value of the models lost. Against things like Ogres, it's completely pointless as the only possible target is gnoblars. Against elite troops, on the other hand, is where the spell shines. (looking at your Pheonix Guard!)

edit: quick question as I can't seem to find my rulebook. When using the power scroll I know you get IF/Miscast on any doubles, you still have to beat the spell's casting value though, correct? A la the Book of Hoeth and other such?

on the power scroll you do not have to meet the casting value.

On the book of hoeth you do, book of hoeth is even stronger since any double (besides 6's) is irresistible force but not a miscast. However you still must meat the casting value

Ah, understood. Thanks for clarifying.

The book is even more powerfull because it isn't one use only.

EDIT: Ignore this post. My browser declined to mention the fact this thread had a second page.

Sounds like that 4 wizard with purple sun list is risky as hell. Your opponent had just as much chance blowing up all his wizards and some of his army as pulling that off OP.

i think that 4 purple suns would be hell to deal with after all, even against high init armies, it still has the potential to cover a lot of models and score a lot of sixes and score a lot more power dice.

Thunderfrog wrote:Skaven only need one spell, and it incidentally has 13 in it's name.

Wrong the spell your looking for is warp lightning
also I asume that he got first turn because if you couldent sniper Karios in the first turn you should of

I'm a big fan of Bless with Filth, actually. Poisoned Attacks turn a Slave block from a regular tarpit into a tarpit of death.

ogres are monstrous INFANTRY. How is that not infantry?

Uhhm, in the same way as a crossBOW isn't a bow?

in the Rulebook, it says:

For the most part, monstrous infantry work exactly the same as normal infantry (i.e. follow the standard rules) but have a couple of extra facets to represent just how massive they are:

Stomp
Monstrous Ranks
Monstrous Support

I don't know how they are not considered infantry for the purposes of a spell that affects infantry. Someone is going to have to convince me otherwise. The whole bow isn't a crossbow thing is a feeble attempt, at best.

Please and Thanks

the Dreaded 13th only effects Infantry.

in the unit type list Infantry have a different section from Monsterous infantry.


if you insist that the 13th effects Monsterous Infantry then my Ogres get Thunderstomp as well as stomp because they are Monsterous infantry.



Monsterous Infantry =/= Infantry, just like Monsterous Cavelry =/= Cavelry and Monsterous beasts =/= Monsters.

Orkimedes wrote:The whole bow isn't a crossbow thing is a feeble attempt, at best.

Why? Infantry, Monstrous Infantry, Crossbow, and Bow are all clearly defined terms in the book. I thought it was a decent example.

Orkimedes wrote:in the Rulebook, it says:

For the most part, monstrous infantry work exactly the same as normal infantry (i.e. follow the standard rules) but have a couple of extra facets to represent just how massive they are:

Stomp
Monstrous Ranks
Monstrous Support

I don't know how they are not considered infantry for the purposes of a spell that affects infantry. Someone is going to have to convince me otherwise. The whole bow isn't a crossbow thing is a feeble attempt, at best.

Please and Thanks

That's not a complete list of exceptions, just "for the most part". If it were a complete list, then ogres could fight with 10 models in a building, and wouldn't fail dangerous tests on 1 or 2 in mashes.

-Matt

Orkimedes - does that mean a StormBOLTER is a BOLTER then? As in 24" RF?

No, the proper name "Monstrous Infantry" is entirely different from "Infantry"; despite containing 1 word the same, it is an indivisible entity.

Infantry /= Monstrous Infantry. A spell affecting ONLY infantry does NOT affect Monstrous Infantry.

The classifications run:

Infantry
Monstrous Infantry
Cavalry
Monstrous Cavalry
Warbeasts
Swarms
War Machines
Monstrous Beasts
Monsters
Chariots
Unique Units

So if something is listed as affecting Infantry, it no more affects Monstrous Infantry than it does Chariots. Monstrous Infantry are a different type of unit, not a sub-category.