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zonino wrote:He said Dead not Dread. Incubi are basically Howling Banshees and Striking Scorpions rolled into one unit. WS5 S4 2 Attacks I6 power weapons for all unit with a 3+ save and fleet that can be given feel no pain, have transports they can assault out of and a Flamer that, while having low Strength, has AP 3, so it mulches pretty much every Eldar foot unit out there.

Yup, Eldar Aspect warriors could sure take that on!

My kitted out banshees are still stomping that incubi squad for half the price. lol

zonino wrote:The 2nd point is the main problem I have with Eldar at the moment. Choice... there is none. You either have to have a Mechdar list with a Farseer or you fail. Eldar have so many wonderful looking units and yet nearly 90% of them are useless in most games. Troops can't survive without being in Transports and can bearly shoot at anything. The only good Elite are Fire Dragons which people send off in expensive suicide squads which spits in the face of everything the Eldar codex talks about in regards to the Eldar way of life. All the fast attack is ludicrously overpriced for what it does, and all the best things are in heavy support, or at least would be, but everyone takes Falcons or Fire Prisms anyway.

I'm no arrogant though, I know none of this is the fault of the Dark Eldar codex, it's been this way since even before 5th ed, but that's why it's soo annoying. Not just Eldar, but any other Codex that's out of date is stuck playing a game of catch up, having to wait their turn to go on the rollercoaster of power before they'll get any real changes.* Eldar, Tau, even Necrons all have models already and in the case of the Eldar good looking ones too. Why do any of us have to wait to get a new book? If GW really did love the game they'd balance it a lot better than this.

*(Balance restrictions apply to all apart from Dark Angels, where it pretty much says in their FAQ they can use Codex: Space Marines rules with their own if they want, as long as both sides find it fair).

How is this different than it has ever been? You are justified in complaining about it, but really all old codexes are like this and it has always been that way (orks being the exception). Really its because everone figures out what units work what units dont and everone develops a norm. That and people figure out the general strategy for beating that army so people are forced into playing lsts that work... thus the eldar codex. sad but true

Samus_aran115 wrote:I love the codex. Craftworld eldar are stupid, they have no place in the 41st millenium.

1

O you angsty DE, listening to your screamo, and being all anticonformist with ur spikes. lol

sniperjolly wrote:

rivers64 wrote:How can any of you say this? Dark Eldar are cheaper and better in every way. I fully support the OP.

Not in durability. I'm sorry, did someone say something about armour 12? a closed top vehichal? What a luxury that must be. Troops choices that have 4+ saves? Preposterous! 2+ coversaves? Unheard of! A FOOT list!? how will you hide if you can't kill or tie up everything in one turn? You have twice the number of units with 3+saves then us, and actaully have 4+'s! (scourges dont count) Your transports can hold a heavy weapon and an independant charecter at the same time. There are plenty of hidden advantages to the Craftworld list. And one, big, glaring, yet still kinda hidden disadvantage of the DE 'dex.

Agreed

nosferatu1001 wrote:"Dead" /= "Dread".

Your opponents havent altered their lists yet. Reavers for example mince mechdar.

Ahhh that makes much more sense, still my point stands. Pretty tough for anything outside of haywire grenades or a buffed up (soul trap) archon to kill a dread in CC.

When the CWE go ten years without a new codex I'll listen to their(the exclusive Elfdar players') complaints. Since 2nd Ed the elfdar have had the rep of being the easiest army to cheese out, and deservedly so. I kinda dread the release of a new elfdar codex. How can they keep it up?

And yes, I have an elfdar army (as well as everything but Necrons), so I'm not just blowin' smoke.

Hey, Elfdar, how many of you HAVE to fire anti-tank weapons in order to take out a trukk or landspeeder? DE do. No more splinter cannons taking out the light stuff.

And as for warmachines with high T, have you looked at your Wraithlord lately? Can bolters hurt it? They can a Talos.

sniperjolly wrote:How can any of you say this? Dark Eldar are cheaper and better in every way. I fully support the OP.

rivers64 wrote:Not in durability. I'm sorry, did someone say something about armour 12? a closed top vehichal? What a luxury that must be. Troops choices that have 4+ saves? Preposterous! 2+ coversaves? Unheard of! A FOOT list!? how will you hide if you can't kill or tie up everything in one turn? You have twice the number of units with 3+saves then us, and actaully have 4+'s! (scourges dont count) Your transports can hold a heavy weapon and an independant charecter at the same time. There are plenty of hidden advantages to the Craftworld list. And one, big, glaring, yet still kinda hidden disadvantage of the DE 'dex.

AV12 Closed Vehicles? Great. Expensive too, also cannot assault from them if they move, even if it's just to swivel on the spot. Most are also BS3 and all of them cannot move at cruising speed and fire 3 lance weapons. They also have to move flat out to get an invunerable save.

Dire Avengers (the 4+ Armour Troops) have no heavy weapons upgrades, no anti infantry upgrades, and a gun with 18" range. They aren't as good as they think you are. 2+ Cover save dudes are expensive as hell snipers (24 points a model). Both fold and die from the massive amount of flamers that all armies have.

Foot lists?! Who uses foot lists nowadays except Tyranids, Orks and possibly Guard? Everything is tanks tanks tanks transports transports transports. Those 4+ saves don't mean that much when you're taking a volley of Strength 4+ shots with no cover saves because you're walking up the table.

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It's easy to SAY what advantages an army has, but it's another thing altogether to make them work. Clearly Dark Eldar, as everyone has been pointing out, are a Glass Cannon designed to hit hard or shatter. The only reason Eldar are not perceived to be the same, even though they are, is because everyone plays them by taking small units and sticking them in transports. Get enough AV12 tanks on the field and any army can look tough, but as soon as those tanks go down Eldar die just as quickly as Dark Eldar. You can trust me on that, I play them!

Think about it for a moment: The most successful Eldar unit is Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent, and they work by flying up to something at top speed, getting out, and turning a tank/unit to molten slag. They then die. Does this sound Familiar?

I am an eldar player i have seen thier reviews and why the hell did they put harlequins on thier elite choice? I think that we can beet them all that inccubie are is scorpions without guns but instead have power weapons. Who else can shoot people with thier heads? No one. I say that we are better we have the night spinner something they cant amount to. If we can keep range for a short period of time and then get into close combat after all thier scarry units are gone we can win. Eldar are better they have bean cheased out but we have better range and armor. All im saying is Battle tights for the win.

Everything in the dark eldar list minus the "turning into slag" bit?

Eldar are still a glass cannon, but (bad metaphor incoming) of a smaller caliber, less likely to shatter, and yet less powerful on the first shot. The Eldar foot list exists and is possible, as does the Wraithguard list (but you had better not play against DE) and a "5th turn win" army is feasabale. The DE have Wracks, wich are tiny units of orks w/painboyz at best. The DE 5th turn army woulodent make it to 5th turn, they would be dead by then, and heaven help them if it drags to turn 7. THe DE HAVE to go for the throat, and they are very good at it, however, if they miss, well, it's curtains for them. The skilled DE player will rarely ever miss, and the inexperienced one will almost always, thus the disclamer that it is not, by any means a beginners army, regardless of power level. Eldar players would probably be very good at DE and see the army through a good DE player's eyes. A marine player might not, an just make a wreck of the whole thing.

I think dark reapers and night spinners are our best units

Yeah I play as csm. My codex was made around the same time as yours. I feel your pain. And thank god my buddy who is like the only person I play with is CWE so we get to play balanced lists against one another.

I played some blood angel one time and I pretty much pooped my pants with all the ridiculous junk they were sporting. Librarian dreadnought was just about the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

I hate GW because GW doesn't give two poops about it's players. And you all may not like us complainers, but if we complain enough on forums GW will find out about it. It's like that with new video games that suck. The company will announce that considering the 'feedback' they've received, they will make updates. This feedback comes straight from forums and the like.

Personally I expect more from GW. I expect balanced codex's and units that are useful and variety and uniqueness to the army. Not this Mechdar to be competitive crap. Or this daemon prince obliterator plague marine crap. Or any of this, yo let's make some money and make these models good this codex and increase their price.

GW scalps their players. They get us invested in their game then they scalp us. Maybe if they lowered the prices more people would play which would give them more buisness which would allow them to have more updates. I wanna get people into warhammer all the time and the first thing people always say is dang that's too expensive man... and they're right! It is too bloody expensive especially for the crap GW does to us. Not only is it too expensive but the game is unbalanced.

If they really wanted to make money here's what they should have done. When 5th edition came out, they should have updated every single codex too. Sure it would be a lot of work for them but at least we could play warhammer 40k at a point in time where every army is balanced with one another. And we could choose to play the army that looks coolest to us instead of having to consider what is outdated and what isn't. It's garbage really. There are so many warhammer players who have quit playing for years. And if they were here they would be complaining as well. But they have just given up on the game and don't care anymore to voice their opinion. If GW cared more for their customers, a lot more of their customers would still be playing and their product would become more and more popular and they would be able to lower the prices which would allow more people to get their friends to play. GW's business etiquette is poor in my opinion. They don't seem to realize that the success of a business relies upon the satisfaction of their customers.

But I still have hope, maybe in a few years GW will shape up and I've been wrong about them. Maybe they really are trying to do everything they can with what they've got. But for now I suppose it's "good enough" that I'll keep playing. But I really expected more.