badab war mystery terminator

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**Dysartes**

Kanluwen wrote:And if we're going off "old"(aka the Black Templar Codex) fluff: The previous SM codex, for whatever the "new" Founding Chapter perk was mentioned something (paraphrasing here as I don't have it handy) that they were "newly founded, and thus only possessed a small number of Terminator Armor suits; all of which lacked the history and the more complex Machine Spirit of the ancient suits".

So where do the "newly Founded Chapters" get their Terminator Armor from?
Either it's constructed by hand(which makes by far the most sense, since it's one of the few things not constructed by a Chapter itself, but reliant upon the AM for) or the AM has a supersecret vault filled to the brim with suits of Terminator Armor.

Assuming that's referring to the Black Templars, then you're talking about a Second Founding Chapter - i.e., a chapter which was created nearly 10,000 years ago within the setting. Given that Terminator armour hadn't been around for that long at that time, as it had been created during the Great Crusade, I'm not sure how there can be "ancient suits" of Terminator armour at that stage.

Can someone with the BT book get us the actual quote for this, please, or am I going to have to bust out my 2nd edition Wargear book for quotes here?

**Samus_aran115**

BrookM wrote:Terminator armour is probably still being made, the novels go through them at a high speed. Space Hulk describes how several Terminator units are forever lost. The short story "the Core" tells how the Night Lords steal five or so suits from the Salamanders. The Ultramarine novels talk about how big Pesanius is and that the lower part of his power armour is made from a suit of Terminator armour. And so on.

Don't forget about dark apostle, where the word bearers lose something like a hundred suits to the necrons

**sonofruss**

There is also the small bit about every loyalist suit of armor having a small shard of the big E's armor embedded in the cruxis that is why they are irreplaceable relics as to them not being in production they are it just takes a while. The space wolves had to have a suit made for Ranulf The largest wolf next to Russ they almost had to use Russ's armor but he stopped growing.

**ChiliPowderKeg**

So it's gone from questions of a mysterious model to discussion of 40k fluff. I sense a forum sections switch soon

**Kanluwen**

Dysartes wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:And if we're going off "old"(aka the Black Templar Codex) fluff: The previous SM codex, for whatever the "new" Founding Chapter perk was mentioned something (paraphrasing here as I don't have it handy) that they were "newly founded, and thus only possessed a small number of Terminator Armor suits; all of which lacked the history and the more complex Machine Spirit of the ancient suits".

So where do the "newly Founded Chapters" get their Terminator Armor from?
Either it's constructed by hand(which makes by far the most sense, since it's one of the few things not constructed by a Chapter itself, but reliant upon the AM for) or the AM has a supersecret vault filled to the brim with suits of Terminator Armor.

Assuming that's referring to the Black Templars, then you're talking about a Second Founding Chapter - i.e., a chapter which was created nearly 10,000 years ago within the setting. Given that Terminator armour hadn't been around for that long at that time, as it had been created during the Great Crusade, I'm not sure how there can be "ancient suits" of Terminator armour at that stage.

Can someone with the BT book get us the actual quote for this, please, or am I going to have to bust out my 2nd edition Wargear book for quotes here?

I don't own the BT book. Aduro made the quote about the Black Templars book saying "The secrets of its construction are lost". I was just saying that if we go off the older BT book fluff, then the SM codex from that same timeframe stated, roughly paraphrasing, that "new Founded Chapters will have a small supply of Terminator Armour to draw from at their Founding, with Chapters with close ties to the Mechanicus usually having more".

**EvilHamster**

Alpharius wrote:For Pre-Heresy Terminator armor, I hope FW tries a little harder than that!

Unfortunately this is not pre-heresy termie armour, this is what happens when you commision artwork from somebody who made Doomtrooper and such bullpoo before, now everybody's making Warzonish shoulderpads on termies and declare them "pre-heresy"

The armour displayed on the FW images is actually MkIII terminator armour, pre heresy and heresy era armour Mki and II were made before by GW in 1980's.

**Agamemnon2**

BrookM wrote:The Ultramarine novels talk about how big Pesanius is and that the lower part of his power armour is made from a suit of Terminator armour. And so on.

So this Pesanius guy was truescaled?

**Element206**

mystery figure looks awesome. Im assuming those are the vaunted space sharks?

**shrike**

Yep. But now they're renamed.

**Mad4Minis**

EvilHamster wrote:
Alpharius wrote:For Pre-Heresy Terminator armor, I hope FW tries a little harder than that!

Unfortunately this is not pre-heresy termie armour, this is what happens when you commision artwork from somebody who made Doomtrooper and such bullpoo before, now everybody's making Warzonish shoulderpads on termies and declare them "pre-heresy"

The armour displayed on the FW images is actually MkIII terminator armour, pre heresy and heresy era armour Mki and II were made before by GW in 1980's.

Ok, Ill bite...so what DOES heresy/pre heresy term armor look like?

Ill also add that I like the big shoulder pads. once my termie collection gets in full swing Im going to do a squad with them.

**Aspiring Champion**

The way they've been wargeared and posed makes them look like a dance troupe.

**EvilHamster**

Mad4Minis wrote:

Ok, Ill bite...so what DOES heresy/pre heresy term armor look like?

Ill also add that I like the big shoulder pads. once my termie collection gets in full swing Im going to do a squad with them.

Here ya go mate
like this(MkI)

And like this (MkII)

Please do note that those things on MkI are not shoulderpads

Oh and here's the link to the original catalogue scan:
http://solegends.com/citcat89/c894106marines-h.htm

**shrike**

They'll probably look good as a model, but on screen?

they look terrible!

**EvilHamster**

shrike wrote:They'll probably look good as a model, but on screen?
they look terrible!

Heretic!!! They are beatifull!!

Btw:
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/165/d/5/Incendiary_by_jollyjack.jpg

**endtransmission**

I used to have one of the MkII suits and it was really nice. I'd love to see a new interpretation of it

**Samus_aran115**

Scultpted by jes goodwin no less

**Alpharius**

Actually, as posted earlier, they now look like this:

The "M&M" and "Bulldog" Terminators are literally old school Citadel miniatures that used to represent what Per-Heresy Terminator Armor looked like, but given what we've seen from the "Visions" artbooks, that is no longer the case.

I've got a bunch of the "M&M" Terminators though, waiting for the right project...

**brettz123**

Should be interesting to see what forge world comes up with for pre-heresy terminator armor. The new artwork is much better than the old terminators they made.

**Mad4Minis**

Id be game for some of those ^^^. Well, Id score any that werent too terrible really.

Though the ones posted above look like something from Warmachines Menoth faction...

**insaniak**

Alpharius wrote:I've got a bunch of the "M&M" Terminators though, waiting for the right project...

Heh... I have a bunch of the older Terminators that I was planning to use for my Red Corsairs. Never did manage to track down the "M&M" one though.

**Mad4Minis**

brettz123 wrote:Should be interesting to see what forge world comes up with for pre-heresy terminator armor. The new artwork is much better than the old terminators they made.

Id prefer if GW and not FW did them. Im not sure Id buy them from FW...their quality is extremely sketchy, especially in smaller stuff. If they were really cool and decently priced I might take the chance...maybe...

**shrike**

Alpharius wrote:I've got a bunch of the "M&M" Terminators though, waiting for the right project...

can you post pics? Dunno what those look like...

**Samus_aran115**

Mad4Minis wrote:
brettz123 wrote:Should be interesting to see what forge world comes up with for pre-heresy terminator armor. The new artwork is much better than the old terminators they made.

Id prefer if GW and not FW did them. Im not sure Id buy them from FW...their quality is extremely sketchy, especially in smaller stuff. If they were really cool and decently priced I might take the chance...maybe...

I think everyone would agree with you here

People would just snatch those up. I doubt forgeworld could meet the demand well enough, with good quality at least. Besides, then we wouldn't have to wait like 5 years for hem to show up on our doorsteps, we could just go buy them

**Mad4Minis**

Samus_aran115 wrote:
Mad4Minis wrote:
brettz123 wrote:Should be interesting to see what forge world comes up with for pre-heresy terminator armor. The new artwork is much better than the old terminators they made.

Id prefer if GW and not FW did them. Im not sure Id buy them from FW...their quality is extremely sketchy, especially in smaller stuff. If they were really cool and decently priced I might take the chance...maybe...

I think everyone would agree with you here People would just snatch those up. I doubt forgeworld could meet the demand well enough, with good quality at least. Besides, then we wouldn't have to wait like 5 years for hem to show up on our doorsteps, we could just go buy them

Theres that as well.

I could stand the shipping time if the quality was there. My experience with FW is very mixed. I got a Baneblade many years ago that was perfect. Ditto for the chaos dread. The chaos renegades were warped. The Grey Knight strike cruisers were terrible. Well, one was fine, the other looked like it took several torpedoes on the way across the pond.

**Alpharius**

shrike wrote:
Alpharius wrote:I've got a bunch of the "M&M" Terminators though, waiting for the right project...

can you post pics? Dunno what those look like...

It looks a lot like the picture posted earlier:

**shrike**

wow. And I thought power armour shoulder pads were big...

**sonofruss**

Those are not shoulder pads they are a solid part of the armor I saw one years ago they are quite heavy being lead and rather solid in the body.

**alphaecho**

MajorTom11 wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Aduro wrote:How long ago was it that they lost the ability to make more Terminator Armor? Seems odd that they'd advance it after the Heresy, then forget how to make it altogether.

Never?

They've never lost the ability to "make more Terminator Armor". They've just "lost" the ability (or more likely, purposely misconstrued the directions) to mass produce the armor. It's now basically hand-crafted.

What's your source for that??

p.s - Not snarky, genuinely curious, I don't recall reading that anywhere, I always remember reading that they no longer knew how to make it, and each suit was a precious irreplaceable relic. Which always bugged me, as I am pretty sure after a millennium or 2, they would all be shot up and finished... It's not like they had a ton of spares even back in the day to explain how it would be possible to keep most chapters owning suits.

One source is the Index Astartes article on Terminators (collected in Index Astartes IV). The article states new suits are produced by the Adeptus Mechanicus but at a slow rate so existing suits are treated with utmost care.

**Breotan**

Alpharius wrote:Actually, as posted earlier, they now look like this...

wh40k.lexicanum.com shows that design pattern as Adeptus Custodes Terminator Armour.

**Alpharius**

Fantastic!

The Horus Heresy Collected Visions shows this as Pre-Heresy/Heresy Era Terminator Armor (Iron Hands Marine):

Where are we going with this again?