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If you'd check the rulebook, you'd find that SnP automatically confers Relentless, for those worried about that.

I'd say yes to the Teleport Obelisk markers, honestly. Link them to the Monolith so that you can either Teleport to the 'lith, or to one of the Obs. Set up would be like Wood Elves of WHFB.

The units in the Necron codex are pretty good. All of them.

In terms of more mobility, I think all the teleporting is really pretty good in that regard, and they should stick with that theme. Transports are relatively lame compared to popping up all over the board!

Some cool new units would be neat, but they don't really need to fix the ones we have.

Main thing I want is an a drop pod style obelisk that is equipped with a downgraded power matrix (can be used as particle whip like the mono but it'd be something like s6/AP4-5, small blast). Add in a piece of purchasable wargear that networks all of the power matrix-equipped models on the field so you can teleport from one to another. If they had something like that, then I'd be for giving slow and purposeful to warriors and immortals.

Overall I'd like to see:

- effective CC units (fleet, power weapons or rending)
- increased mobility without resorting to transports (see above obelisks as well as keeping our jetbike-like units)
- make gauss scary again (make it rending)
- change phase out from being applied army wide to being applied on a unit by unit basis
- simplify WBB, or simply replace it with FnP

While phaseout is fluffy one thing that always bothered me about the rule is that an opponent can ignore all other objectives and just go for phaseout without any reprecussions. Yeah you can argue it's not cool and they shouldn't do that but in the end who's stopping anyone from just going for the phase out and objectives be damned? It hamstrings one player without putting any restrictions on the other, sort of like fighting with one arm tied behind your back.

If you insist on keeping it in for fluff purposes then you should add some ambiguity to the rule so there is a risk for the other player if he decides to go for phaseout. How? Take a page out of the BA codex with bloodthirst. The Necron player rolls before the game starts, in secret, on a 1-3 the army plays under phaseout conditions and on a 4-6 they are not under phaseout restrictions. The player writes the result down on a piece of paper keeps it on the table in view at all times and the other player now has to face a risk. Do I go for phaseout knowing that there is a 50/50 shot that his army is not playing under those conditions or do I stick to the game objectives?

Additionally if you really wanted to add some complexity you could make phaseout's putcome also determinable by a die roll. Say 1-2 Standard phaseout conditions. 3-4 75% or more for phaseout and 5-6 no phaseout at all. Now the player is facing the choice that there is a greater chance that the army is playing under phaseout but what exactly would that number be? Do I risk even going for it?

I think it adds some risk and strategizing for both players then just, here's my army now you know all you have to do is knock my warriors down by a certain amount to win no matter what the conditions.

As long as I can still make those losers phase out...

Nah, I think that Maelstrom covered the two things I'd need to see to consider taking my Necrons past the Lord and Wraiths I got for a little squaddie battle at the FLG.

- effective CC units (fleet, power weapons or rending)
- increased mobility without resorting to transports (see above obelisks as well as keeping our jetbike-like units)

I want for Pariahs and Flayed Ones what I want for Sisters Repentia and Arco-Flagellants: give us some new ways to get these SOB's into CC where they can be the beasts that their stat lines imply they are! I also think that Necrons could use something like IRL UAV drones. Something that could travel fast and cover flanks for cheap.

As far as i'm aware there is no fixed date for the Necron Codex. There is a remarkably good fandex floating around on here though. Check it out:


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/210/294849.page





I too woudl like power weapons or rending on my Wraiths to make them truly effective.

I'm not convinced abotu SnP to be honest. Stubborn and Relentless makes sens eto me. But i think SnP woudl just make an already slow army even slower. Maybe Lose SnP but say noone can run?

What if when 75% of the army is gone, every unit takes an Ld test with a -2 modifier, and the ones who fail the test phase out (doesn't affect C'tan stargods, scarabs, Necron lords with some wargear that prevents it, tomb spyders or pariahs (Pariahs are the ultimate hybrid so I believe the C'tan have prevented the phasing out in them somehow)).

I''d like to see Obelisks, kind of like the ones from the Dawn of War.
It would be something that can deepstrike, and you can have 1 squad teleport to it for the rest of the game. It would have rules like the monolith for deepstriking, and living metal.

Maybe it would be bought as a squad upgade. Like for things with the necron rule. The obelisk deepstrikes, and then the sqaud teleports to it that very turn. It would also have a less powerful version of the particle accelerator.

Soulx wrote:I''d like to see Obelisks, kind of like the ones from the Dawn of War.
It would be something that can deepstrike, and you can have 1 squad teleport to it for the rest of the game. It would have rules like the monolith for deepstriking, and living metal.

Maybe it would be bought as a squad upgade. Like for things with the necron rule. The obelisk deepstrikes, and then the sqaud teleports to it that very turn. It would also have a less powerful version of the particle accelerator.

That is a really interesting idea for improving mobility. I like that it fits the general theme, and it doesn't seem like it would really put anything out of balance if it were at the right points cost.

As for Phase out... I really rarely phase out, and I play against opponents who do their best to do so... It takes skill, but it isn't as easy as it sounds... And you're hearing this from guy who fields only 2 squads of warriors all the way to 2000pts...

I sypmathize with non-fluffy transports. But in a mech heavy 5th edition, I'd argue for having them. Nothing protects troops like a vehicle. First you have to get through the armor, which limits which weapons can do so. Then you have to get a result that's actually going to force the guys inside out. Only 2/3 of the results will do so. Necron players know how hard this is when we have to glance a vehicle to death to be able to get to the troops inside that have been shooting us from those shifting fire ports. Cover saves are nice, WBB or FNP are great to have, but a mobile bunker is better. That and being able to ignore psychic powers because we have a small layer of anything between us and them.

So, if no transports? I want our stats to stay mostly the same or better, but with a rider on the toughness that says we can never be wounded on better than a 4+. Normal toughness to strength if T is higher than S, but mitigates severely high S weapons. If going with FNP, make it a special version that ignores the exceptions, without needing a res orb, so that we don't need to bunch up around them. And add on without number, so more will keep showing up. OR Ubiquitious 2+ armor 3+ invulnerable with fnp, and constant night fight rules for incoming fire, min T5 on everything, fnp, relentless, and stubborn. Plus upgraded weapons.

What I'd find interesting to see is Necrons become the army that everyone else needs to try to weather. As in severely overpowered, but necrons dont stay around. So, we go last automatically, and phase out end of round 5, giving the opponent a automatic victory if they're still on the table. But make us overpowered to the point that it's going to be hard for them to still be on the table at the end of round 5. Necrons show up, kill everything, if they can't achieve their goal within a set amount of time, they disappear from the field. Fits the fluff of vastly superior tech, and the bits I see here or there about them phasing out if the opposition is too stiff to overcome. I mean, as long as we're wishlisting...

Well, I like the idea of overpower, but that would mean that there is only one mission to play: anahilation.
And that won't happen...

Hey, I agree it would make the game different. Not sure that's a bad thing.

Also not sure if it'd be fun for anything other than an occassional thing. But it would be interesting.

Chinchilla wrote:CHEAPER WARRIORS: Firstly, I don't think warriors should get cheaper... Yes, they are expensive, but try to see what you get for that... How can you put them to be 15pts when normal marine is 16?! Problem is that in cc they die to easily, so that's what they have to change...

Ya but are you looking at what your average SM gets for 16 pts? Can't be sweeping advanced, comes with frag grenades so they always go at their initiative (which is already basically the best initiative for a troop choice in that they will pretty much always get to go at the same time, if not first, regardless of condition and opponent unit/model), automatically regroups if conditions are met, VAST amount of customization (for extra points, but still an option we don't get)...should I go on? I won't even go into the benefits the other codices of SM flavors...

So yes, warriors need to cost less or be better.

Well, I agree that they need to get better... If sweeping advance is regulated, then I still think they are worth those 18pts... Don't forget that you're paying for gauss (SM can't take out land raider with their bolters) and WBB...

Honestly, stubborn is the best addition the necrons could get at this point in time. I played a battle mission where all infantry received the stubborn rule and it made playing necrons MUCH more enjoyable and allowed for a varied scheme of tactics to be used instead of the normal "shoot a lot and stay away from CC" that they pretty much have to do now. And quite honestly, it wasn't even really overpowered at all. Sure it made the army a bit tougher but not outside the realm of still doable. They still weren't monsters in CC but at least they weren't pussy-cats either.

If I were playing Necrons right now, I would want Phase Out to happen on a unit by unit basis. That makes "phase out number" meaningless, and makes it more appealing to field Non Necron units. I would also want Heavy Destroyers to be re worked, either by giving them more wounds or proper armour. I'd like a Destroyer Lord to allow me to take Destroyers as troops. I'd like a way of giving everything Eternal Warrior (like my Deamons.) I'd like more flexibilty as reguard weapons.

Is that OK??


Oh..how about giving some units regeneration? That seems to mimic self repair quite well..

Praxiss wrote:As far as i'm aware there is no fixed date for the Necron Codex. There is a remarkably good fandex floating around on here though. Check it out:


http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/210/294849.page

I too woudl like power weapons or rending on my Wraiths to make them truly effective.

I'm not convinced abotu SnP to be honest. Stubborn and Relentless makes sens eto me. But i think SnP woudl just make an already slow army even slower. Maybe Lose SnP but say noone can run?

+1 to this. Other then the fact that the c'tan are completely absent from it, that fandex is pretty solid. I would play those crons

As troops are very important to the game Warriors need the most fixing. I don't mind the idea of Slow and Purposeful and Stubborn. I do think they are worth 18 points if they can fire and move and are it becomes easier to avoid being swept in close combat.

Mobility is something that is a bit meh. They have a lot of mobility options in Veil and Monoliths now. They aren't able to be hidden in little metal boxes like other armies but they get near army wide WBB to help offset that. I would like to see something along the lines of the teleport platforms mentioned before. I would hate to see a traditional transport though.

Replacing WBB with FNP does cheapen it a bit (as we'll now have to worry about AP3 weapons) but it does streamline things a bit and makes units that with WBB would count towards combat resolution not count. Res orb Lords become more important if they allow FNP without restrictions.

I think Heavy Destroyers need to be made Destroyer upgrades rather than their own FoC slot. Would love to see a mini-Monolith in the Heavy Support slot.

Wraiths and Flayed Ones could use some sort of power weapon option as well.

I don't think they desperately need another Troop choice - just something that isn't a liability as a Troop. Fix Warriors and I'm fine with it.

Rending could be a bit over powered but it allows Gauss to function without adding a bunch of new gun options to the Codex. Necrons desperately need something that can destroy Vehicles from range. Heavy Destroyers are not good and a Monolith needs to be able to be doing other things.

Make Immortals and Pariahs troop choices, but unable to claim objectives, like Death Company.

Some sort of Necron Walker/Dread, the Stalker, and maybe more new selections.

With the C'tan moving to Apocalypse, need to make the Necron Lords a bump stronger, or upgradable to stronger.

FNP.
Relentless without the Slow and Purposeful. Necrons aren't slow, but they don't stop coming.

Something akin to ATSKNF might be handy, perhaps something like:

Emergancy Phase Shift - <Insert ATSKNF rule here with fancy necron theme>

A slow and purposeful-esque rule would be good, but I think 1D6 movement might punish them a little too much; perhaps make it 2D6 and pick the highest?

An upgrade to other units could allow more to hold objectives, perhaps have an upgrade that allows Immortals/Pariahs to claim objectives, but only one of them can do it:

Immortal Tactic: Capture and Hold - All units of Immortals in your army have been ordered to aid in the capture and control of mission objectives where possible. All Immortal units in your army become scoring units. Incompatible with Pariah Tactic: Capture and Hold.

Pariah Tactic: Capture and Hold - All units of Pariahs in your army have been ordered to aid in the capture and control of mission objectives where possible. All Pariah units in your army become scoring units. Incompatible with Immortal Tactic: Capture and Hold.

Since objectives make up 2/3 games, you're taking a risk by preparing for a game you might never play (you could roll annihilation several times in a row), but if you do roll it, then it'll pay off.

FNP seems fine instead of WBB.

Changing the orb to fit FNP might cause some trouble though. For Plague Marines, people still think they're overpowered, and they cost 5pts more than your average warrior; however, they can still be splattered by anything S8 (since instant death ignores FNP), with battlecannons or demolisher cannons really ruining their day.

Having the Orb allow FNP regardless would make them overpowered, as they would get saves against everything (have a hole ripped through you by a lascannon? No problemo!). Giving them an FNP re-roll, or indeed simply acting as WBB (Take a wound, fail save, fail FNP, fall to the floor, ressed by the orb), but with restrictions:

Killed by anything with S7 or less and AP4/5/6/- = WBB on a 4+
Killed by anything with S8+ with AP4/5/6/- = WBB on a 5+
Killed by anything with S7 or less and with AP 3/2/1 = WBB on a 6+
Killed by anything S8+ with AP3/2/1 = No WBB

This represents the various levels of damage taken; being shot by a lasgun would be easy to repair, whereas a Star Lance (only weapon I could find that was Str8+ with AP4/5/6/- in a hurry) wound would be harder to repair, but it won't have penetrated the armour. Death by plasmagun would be even harder, as it would've penetrated the armour, but might not have caused catastrophic damage, but something like a demolisher shell would do enough damage for it to be too hard to repair on the battlefield.

Only some of my thoughts though.

I think that is a little too complicated.

FNP coudl work, although it wuodl take away some of the fluffiness and cool bits of WBB (like standing back up out of combat....LOL!)

If they did switch to FNP then makgint he res orb allwo FNP all the itme woudl be by far the simplest option, an not overly OP as it only has a 6" range.

I agree on the option of making other untis scoring though. if they did this they coudl avid chucking more units into the Troops box.

6" range wouldn't matter, you'd just ensure each unit has 1 necron in range; being clustered wouldn't matter either, as you'd get a nice juicy 4+ FNP against any S8+ AP3/2/1 template that comes your way.

It'd be incredibly boring to play against a list like that, not to mention to possibility of an all warriors list; it'd basically be playing against an army that will win on a roll of 4+.

I feel Gauss doesn't need to be changed. I like how it works as is. I've glanced Land raiders down to a storm bolter and immobilized with one squad of shooting, and then turn and kill a Demon prince. And that's with warriors...

I Think what the army needs is more options. Options to add to all the troops because their versatility is terrible. I think that the Phase out rule needs to be a squad by squad basis. Pariahs need a buff... Either making them Necrons or giving them an Invuln save. They're just not good enough otherwise to justify the point cost. I think an additional troop unit would help, and a transport. Maybe make Flayed Ones troop units, and give them some sort of transport. That's my opinion though.

Edit: I don't think that FnP should be swapped for WBB. WBB is a unique thing and I feel losing it would lose a big part of this faction. Besides, I think it'd nerf them. Feel no pain doesn't allow a check against wounds that ignore armor saves or instant kills. WBB at least with the phylactery gets around that.. and its not especially hard to get quite a few AP3 weapons in an army.. I just don't see FNP being a better choice than WBB.. plus you get rid the ability of WBB extension by Spyders

AP3 doesn't matter against FNP or WBB. FNP is negated by AP 1 and AP 2, double toughness and anything that ignores armor in CC. WBB is negated by Double Toughness and anything that ignores armor in CC. Both are negated by anything that removes from play. Res Orb allows for WBB restriction on damage to be over-ruled.

FNP is better in some ways but all in all I think it will not change the achilles heel of the army and will basically make them worse than they are now since it is much easier to negate FNP vs. WBB. I stand by Stubborn being a MUCH better change to necrons than screwing with WBB.

Do I want to see WBB changed? Yes. Do I know how I want it to be changed? Sure, but it would be considered OP. How would I change it and keep it fair? Don't know. But I'm not writing the rules.

Kevin949 wrote:AP3 doesn't matter against FNP or WBB. FNP is negated by AP 1 and AP 2, double toughness and anything that ignores armor in CC. WBB is negated by Double Toughness and anything that ignores armor in CC. Both are negated by anything that removes from play. Res Orb allows for WBB restriction on damage to be over-ruled.

FNP is better in some ways but all in all I think it will not change the achilles heel of the army and will basically make them worse than they are now since it is much easier to negate FNP vs. WBB. I stand by Stubborn being a MUCH better change to necrons than screwing with WBB.

Do I want to see WBB changed? Yes. Do I know how I want it to be changed? Sure, but it would be considered OP. How would I change it and keep it fair? Don't know. But I'm not writing the rules.

This ability cannot be used against wounds from weapons that inflict instant death (by having a high enough strength or special rule to that effect; even if the model is an eternal warrior). Neither can it be used against wounds from AP1 and AP2 weapons, power weapons and any other wound against which no armour save can ever be taken (like wounds from pwerfists, dreadnought close combat weapons, rending weapons that roll a 6, perils of the warp, failed dangerous terrain tests, etc)

I figured since the weapon of that is AP3 would matter since it denies most units in the Necron army their armour save... It doesn't say close combat weapons that deny an armour save, just any wound which no armour save can be taken. It's redundant, but I'm pretty certain since no armour save is permitted from that wound than they can't take the FNP. I was going with the circumstance, not the general rule with my post.

Stubborn would work much better.

It says "no armor save can EVER be taken". I thought the same as you BUT there are models with 2+ saves that COULD save an AP3 weapon. Plus, if you look at the examples it gives (since they already pointed out the AP weapons that do ignore FNP) they list examples of wounds taken that you never get an armor save. An AP3 weapon can still be saved by a terminator, for instance.

One example people have pointed out to me are the units (nurgles I believe?) that have NO armor save and ONLY a FNP save. So, what would you do then?

The only units of Nurgle that could have no armour save and only FNP would be their daemon units, in which case they have the inherent invulnerable save daemons have.

Maybe so, but going off of what he was saying they would still never get the FNP they have if they have no armor save to speak of and Invul save =/= armor save, so if the way he believes it is was true then having FNP would be superfluous and do nothing for them. Which is not the case.

A HUGE problem with the Necrons is their crappy initiative values. the fact that Warriors strike last (they have Tau equivalent Initiative values -- THE TAU!!!) is completely sad, coupled with the fact that they have no power weapons (and according to my memory) they're not available to anyone in the army, save the Necron Lord, means that they are almost guaranteed to lose against Marines and, by the Warp, they're likely to lose against a Guardsman's Platoon Command Squad! Even Flayed Ones, the Necrons CC specialists (aside from Pariahs . . . which arent even Necrons) only have ME Initiative.
Necrons NEED, without a question of a doubt, the Stubborn USR.

But lets one up that. Intead of Stubborn USR, open your mind and hear me out.

Instead of a group of 10-20 ancient machines of death being chased down by two Marines with power swords, why dont we match the Emperor's Chosen? Think of the Necrons with an "And They Shall Know No Fear" equivalent. They cant be Sweeping Advanced. If they lose combat, they fall back towards their own lines and regroup if they're caught! Imagine!
In the fluff it talks about how Necrons fall back because of tactical considerations . . . but when a tactical consideration leaves entire 180pt units down the drain because of a few bad rolls and a Terminator with a hard on, its not very tactical.

Yea, Im ranting about the Marines. Im not anti-marine, but I've had my frustrations. Before you get all angry about an ATSKNF equivalent . . . just sit back and think. It fits into the fluff like a glove. It fits in the tactics of the fluff. It fits to fill in the tactical failures of every Necron army I've ever seen.

Think about it . . .