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BlueDagger wrote:Honestly, while really borderline shady... I see this as perfectly legal up to the corner of the vehicle. The dread would have had to stop at the corner of the rhino because at the point where he is turning the corner he would have been heading away from the rhino in order to make the next turn to the right. Vehicles must always move forward or backward, they can turn as many times as they want, but must always move forward or backward.

Doesn't a dread move like infantry and not a vehicle?

Anyway, it looks legal to me, but I play warmachine.

Regardless the infantry movement would have the same issue in that you must move away from the vehicle (direction wise, not distance) to clear the corner.

BlueDagger wrote:Regardless the infantry movement would have the same issue in that you must move away from the vehicle (direction wise, not distance) to clear the corner.

I don't see the distinction. how do you get farther than 1" when moving around the corner? Conversely, when do you determine if you're closer then when you started, is it at the start of your move, during, or at the end? The rules only make a distinction in this case when discussing bike turbo-boosting.

It has nothing to do with physical distance, it has to do with direction of movement. Granted, you can declare that you moving toward the corner of a rhino to max your distance toward something but your model has to physically movethat distance. If you move a model to "walk" him around that corner at some point the direction he is moving is heading away from the rhino, which is disallowed.

I'm not contesting then fact that you have achieved as close as you can toward the model, but the rules do state that you have to move toward the model therfor even if you are within 1" you still can't just walk around it as you please because you aren't moving toward it.

Once he's within 1" he's moving away from his closest point. It's not RAW, RAI or spirit of game.

well the word used is toward not along.

assuming : flat terrain, no special movement rules dreadnaught vs rhino

you start 18" away from the closest rhino, to satisfy the rule move at best speed toward the enemy you must end your movement 12" away. if you are 13" away you have not satisfied the requirement of the rule to move at best speed toward the enemy. because you could have moved 1" more.

if you start greater than 1" away and end your movement 1" away you have moved at your best speed toward the enemy because the rules do not allow you to get any closer than 1". there is nothing in the rules to tell you that you have to pick the closest point that your movement allows you to get and be 1" away, only that you must make best speed toward the enemy.

so i think it would be valid to go around the corner of a rhino assuming your starting movement is 1.01" and your ending movement is 1.0" away no matter how you chose to move the model. you have succesfully moved toward the target.

it is not valid to run along the side of the rhino when you start 1.0" away because you are not following the rule that your movement must move you toward the closest enemy. starting 1.0" and ending 1.0" is the same so you have not moved toward the enemy as the distance is not shorter.

This is an interesting situation.

if you are already 1 inch away from the rhino can you move towards the back of it as long as you end your move 1" away?

its not really covered in the rules.

but since the only requirement is to move toward the enemy unit, I would be inclined to say you can move towards any part of that enemy unit.

after the dreads move you have to ask yourself one question to fulfill the requirement:

Did I move towards the closest visible enemy unit?

if you are closer to any part of the unit than you started out, then the answer is yes you have fulfilled this requirement.

lixulana wrote:
it is not valid to run along the side of the rhino when you start 1.0" away because you are not following the rule that your movement must move you toward the closest enemy. starting 1.0" and ending 1.0" is the same so you have not moved toward the enemy as the distance is not shorter.

Moving toward the model does not mean that the distance must be decreasing.

A dreadnought starts 4" away from an enemy Wraithlord. Between the Dreadnought and the Wraithlord are two friendly vehicles, so that if the dreadnought tries to get into base contact with the Wraithlord, it will end its movement 6" away.

So following the shortest path towards the enemy model, the distance is not shorter.

DeathReaper wrote:This is an interesting situation.

if you are already 1 inch away from the rhino can you move towards the back of it as long as you end your move 1" away?

its not really covered in the rules.

but since the only requirement is to move toward the enemy unit, I would be inclined to say you can move towards any part of that enemy unit.

after the dreads move you have to ask yourself one question to fulfill the requirement:

Did I move towards the closest visible enemy unit?

if you are closer to any part of the unit than you started out, then the answer is yes you have fulfilled this requirement.

The easiest way I visualize it is look where you're pointing your measuring tape when you move. Is it toward your closest visible unit? No? Then you're breaking the Rage rule.

If you have a dreanought on the corner of the Rhino and you set your measuring tape parallel to the rhino, as to move laterally, but staying within 1", you're not moving "toward" the rhino. You're moving "toward" where ever your tape measure is facing.

DeathReaper wrote:This is an interesting situation.

if you are already 1 inch away from the rhino can you move towards the back of it as long as you end your move 1" away?

its not really covered in the rules.

but since the only requirement is to move toward the enemy unit, I would be inclined to say you can move towards any part of that enemy unit.

after the dreads move you have to ask yourself one question to fulfill the requirement:

Did I move towards the closest visible enemy unit?

if you are closer to any part of the unit than you started out, then the answer is yes you have fulfilled this requirement.

No you can not, because once you have met the 1" boundary you can not "move toward the tank since you have already got as close as possible. Any other move at that point would be illegal. You would have to start your move even a fraction more way then 1" then you could move toward any part of the model you want, as long as you are moving TOWARD it. Hence when turning the corner of the rhino during that move would be illegal because you would have to move in the direction away from the rhino to make it around the corner.

Please note though that rage doesn't force you to assault or shot the closest target. If 3" away you could walk diagonally toward the corner of a rhino and assault anything in 6" from that point.

BlueDagger wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:Did I move towards the closest visible enemy unit?
if you are closer to any part of the unit than you started out, then the answer is yes you have fulfilled this requirement.

No you can not, because once you have met the 1" boundary you can not "move toward the tank since you have already got as close as possible. Any other move at that point would be illegal. You would have to start your move even a fraction more way then 1" then you could move toward any part of the model you want, as long as you are moving TOWARD it. Hence when turning the corner of the rhino during that move would be illegal because you would have to move in the direction away from the rhino to make it around the corner.

Please note though that rage doesn't force you to assault or shot the closest target. If 3" away you could walk diagonally toward the corner of a rhino and assault anything in 6" from that point.

Really? The Dread in the Pic is moving toward the closest enemy unit, even though he is already 1" away from said unit.
He is closer to the corner of the unit, so he fulfilled the requirement.

Does the RAGE USR give you the ability to do anything more than move towards the closest model? It sure doesn't, once your next to the rhino, it's the closest model and you stop moving. You are not giving the ability to do any more. Same deal with other rules, if your not given the ability to do it, you can't.

DeathReaper wrote:Really? The rhino in the Pic is moving toward the closest enemy unit, even though he is already 1" away from said unit.
He is closer to the corner of the unit, so he fulfilled the requirement.

Right, you're picking out parts of the unit to justify moving. The rule doesn't say that you CAN move towards certain parts, it simply says you must move towards the closest visible enemy unit. If you're already 1" away from the unit, you can't move any closer to it. A lateral move, is not closer to the unit. It may be closer to the back of the unit, but that's not what is being discussed, or even allowed.

DeathReaper wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:Did I move towards the closest visible enemy unit?
if you are closer to any part of the unit than you started out, then the answer is yes you have fulfilled this requirement.

No you can not, because once you have met the 1" boundary you can not "move toward the tank since you have already got as close as possible. Any other move at that point would be illegal. You would have to start your move even a fraction more way then 1" then you could move toward any part of the model you want, as long as you are moving TOWARD it. Hence when turning the corner of the rhino during that move would be illegal because you would have to move in the direction away from the rhino to make it around the corner.

Please note though that rage doesn't force you to assault or shot the closest target. If 3" away you could walk diagonally toward the corner of a rhino and assault anything in 6" from that point.

Really? The Dread in the Pic is moving toward the closest enemy unit, even though he is already 1" away from said unit.
He is closer to the corner of the unit, so he fulfilled the requirement.

I bolded what I think you meant.

He is not moving TOWARD the closes unit (which is the rhino).

If you started 1" away in this picture you can not follow the direction that arrow is facing because that would put you closer then 1".


Use the method described earlier, pull out a tape measure and place the 6" mark over your model and the end of the tape where you want to go. Is the direction "toward" the tank? No? Then it's an illegal move.

puma713 wrote: The rule doesn't say that you CAN move towards certain parts, it simply says you must move towards the closest visible enemy unit. If you're already 1" away from the unit, you can't move any closer to it. A lateral move, is not closer to the unit. It may be closer to the back of the unit, but that's not what is being discussed, or even allowed.

Exactly, in the pic, have you moved towards the closest enemy unit?

well since the dread is closer to the corner than he started, then Yes he has moved towards the closest enemy unit. Requirement Fulfilled.

DeathReaper wrote:

puma713 wrote: The rule doesn't say that you CAN move towards certain parts, it simply says you must move towards the closest visible enemy unit. If you're already 1" away from the unit, you can't move any closer to it. A lateral move, is not closer to the unit. It may be closer to the back of the unit, but that's not what is being discussed, or even allowed.

Exactly, in the pic, have you moved towards the closest enemy unit?

well since the dread is closer to the corner than he started, then Yes he has moved towards the closest enemy unit. Requirement Fulfilled.

No, it's not. Because you move closer to a part of the unit doesn't mean you've moved any closer to the unit itself. It doesn't give you permission to move to 'parts' of the unit, only toward the unit.

If you're standing next to a wall, and you're told you're only allowed to move TOWARD the wall - are you allowed to move laterally? No, because then you're moving TOWARD the corner of the room.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Once again:

puma713 wrote:
look where you're pointing your measuring tape when you move. Is it toward your closest visible unit? No? Then you're breaking the Rage rule.

Once the dread makes it to within 1" of the target model's closest point from the Dread's starting position, the Dread cannot move "TOWARD" the closest unit anymore. Any movement that does not bring the Dread closer to the enemy model breaks raw.

It does not say that you have to assault that unit, therefore, you can assault whatever you're within range of.

puma713 wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

puma713 wrote: The rule doesn't say that you CAN move towards certain parts, it simply says you must move towards the closest visible enemy unit. If you're already 1" away from the unit, you can't move any closer to it. A lateral move, is not closer to the unit. It may be closer to the back of the unit, but that's not what is being discussed, or even allowed.

Exactly, in the pic, have you moved towards the closest enemy unit?

well since the dread is closer to the corner than he started, then Yes he has moved towards the closest enemy unit. Requirement Fulfilled.

No, it's not. Because you move closer to a part of the unit doesn't mean you've moved any closer to the unit itself. It doesn't give you permission to move to 'parts' of the unit, only toward the unit.

If you're standing next to a wall, and you're told you're only allowed to move TOWARD the wall - are you allowed to move laterally? No, because then you're moving TOWARD the corner of the room.

puma713 wrote:
look where you're pointing your measuring tape when you move. Is it toward your closest visible unit? No? Then you're breaking the Rage rule.

You are only required to move toward the unit, it does not specify what part of said unit you need to move closer too.

So you can move laterally along the side of a rhino. since this would be moving toward the closest visible unit.

If I move laterally along a wall I am moving toward that wall. simply because I am moving toward a spot on said wall.

You need to move toward the closest visible unit. if you have you moved toward the closest visible unit then you have fulfilled the requirement.

The positioning of the tape measure has no bearing on anything.

DeathReaper wrote:You are only required to move toward the unit, it does not specify what part of said unit you need to move closer too.

Actually, that is a good point at least when the closest unit is infantry. Nothing says you need go toward the closest model in that unit as long as you move toward the unit.

DeathReaper wrote:
If I move laterally along a wall I am moving toward that wall.

For you to make statements like this, means we're never going to see eye-to-eye.

______________________________________ A

_______________________________________B

Is line A moving toward line B? No. They're moving the same direction, but they're not moving toward each other. At all.

DeathReaper wrote:
The positioning of the tape measure has no bearing on anything.

Yes it does. The direction of the measuring tape is the direction that your model is moving 'toward'.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spetulhu wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:You are only required to move toward the unit, it does not specify what part of said unit you need to move closer too.

Actually, that is a good point at least when the closest unit is infantry. Nothing says you need go toward the closest model in that unit as long as you move toward the unit.

True, but there's a vast difference in moving toward and entire unit and inching alongside a rhino. If you were standing 1" away from the unit you are supposed to be moving "toward", you cannot move down their lines, as you'd be moving laterally.

Unless you're with DeathReaper in thinking that moving parallel to something, means you're moving toward it.

Kinda getting no where here because folks aren't seeing the point.

1. USR states you MUST move TOWARD the nearest unit

2. If you are 1" away from the closest unit, in this case a rhino, it is IMPOSSIBLE TO MOVE TOWARD IT ANYMORE.

3. If you are 1" and move laterally down the side of the tank to the end of it, still 1" away YOU ARE NOT MOVING TOWARD THE TANK, therefor this is ILLEGAL.


Caps for emphasis.

Nah, I'm thinking it's fishy to inch around the Rhino... but can't really see a way to stop it without also stopping the Rage unit from moving at all if there's an obstacle that would make him go farther away before closing in.

Spetulhu wrote:Nah, I'm thinking it's fishy to inch around the Rhino... but can't really see a way to stop it without also stopping the Rage unit from moving at all if there's an obstacle that would make him go farther away before closing in.

I dunno, a case could be made that you're making your effort to move 'toward' the unit as quickly as possible. You can't go through the terrain, so you must go around it.

Inching around a rhino is not moving toward a unit as quickly as possible at all. It is simply moving parallel to it, trying to manipulate a USR.

Argument has devolved into circular "no it isn't" "yes it is" territory. Locking.