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Hey Delephont, I don't want to pick an argument but I feel like your comment may not be entirely factual. I play ALL the games you mentioned (as can be seen on my Blog or various Skirmish game threads here on Dakka). Requiring less models to play doesn't necessarily mean you spend less money getting into that game. I'll base this all on The Warstore so as to show spending with standard internet discount rates (which, BTW, I didn't pay... I buy most everything brick and mortar).

Here's an example of me getting into the following games in a similar fashion to buying a GW Starter Set ($90, typically 30-90 models for two sides, rules and stats for all therein), except I only get one side so I have to hope someone else comes along that has an army.;

MERCs;

Rulebook (there are no model stats in here, Cards MUST be purchased separately) - $28
CCC Cards - $7
All five CCC figs (you need all five to play) - $40


$75 - 1 Book, 8 Cards and 5 non-customizable metal models. If I want to know what the rules for the three other factions are that will cost me an additional $21 for their card sets.

Infinity - Caveate; the rules are free online for this game, but I'm still including the Rulebook to show a luddites cost...

Infinity 2nd Ed Rulebook; $40
Human Sphere Rulebook (for the remaining model stats); $40
Pan Oc Aciemento Starter Box (6 Figs); $38
Peacemaker Armbot (2 figs ); $28

This is a very small Pan Oc force (<200pts). Total cost is $146 for 2 Rulebooks and 8 figures (one on a 40mm base). I could cut it down to $66 by having all my rules electronically and only have 8 non customizable metal figures.

Malifaux -

Malifaux 1st Edition Rulebook; $28
Fate Deck; $6
Ortega Starter Set; $31

So I've got a fairly small 25 Soulstone Guild force of six Family models for $65, plus a rulebook and the deck of cards needed to play.

It should be noted I will have to pay shipping on all of this as well in order to get my 20% off... which will add cost.

Mantic is an exception to the rule, but they require a similar total number of figures to a Warhammer game as their 'standard game size'. At roughly a dollar a fig that certainly does put them on the right side of affordable! Their character figures are roughly 5 dollars a piece in metal (usually $20 for four).

My roundabout point is that comparing companies like CB or MERCs (or Wyrd or DP9, etc) to 'main market' miniature lines is not really going to work. Those companies tend to produce 100% non-customizable metal lines (with resin occasionally), but charging $8-10 per figure on average. GW tends to charge in the $4-5 per figure range for customizable plastics in individual boxes, sometimes lower (Battalions, Brigades and starter sets come in around $1-3 per figure). Kings of War charges roughly $1 per figure for what are arguably comparable but smaller scale infantry in a similar genre. Before going TU Wargames Factory tried to do the same.

Not trying to pick a fight; but as an addictive personality Polygamerist I know what I've spent on the dozens of games I play. In each case it tends to be a similar amount for a 'playable' game. Whether that nets me 6 figures or 80 figures depends upon the production capacity and production capital of the company in questions. Small basement-miniature companies NEED to charge premium prices in order to stay ahead of their production costs that are inflated by low volume and outsourcing. Bigger companies that own their own infrastructure can charge less by using different materials and owning their own manufacturing.

So there it is; my 0.02.

I guess for me it's just part of the hobby, as long as I have the spare funds I will probably continue to buy, but I do mostly buy now from 2nd hand locations... there isn't really a close by gaming store. Sure there are 2-3 within 30mins to an hour, but until I find a fulltime job (contracting now) my budget isn't as big as it might be.

Delephont wrote:It seems as though GW has painted itself into a corner of their own making. Right now GW are charging for a basic plastic miniature not far off what you’d pay for a high end miniature from Corvus Belli, Studio McVey, MERCS or Hassellfree, yet look at the design and quality of the miniature you’d be buying?!? add to that the fact that you need so many of them to play a game and you have a recipe for disaster!

Totally agree and the harder it is to get in this silly hobby of ours the less newcomers will just try it out and give it a shot.
GW lacks the vision to lure people to small skirmish games and makes it their priority to just lure to the huge battles with lots of models... Its a choice but its going to cost them lots of newcommers and middle class parents with kids with not that much income... one thing is a couple hundred and have all you need for any competitive game and keep your kid painting some minis another diferent story is to spend triple that.

Agreed, it was games like Heroquest that got me into Warhammer and my mini collections grew from there.

NAVARRO wrote:So it seems fair to you a 1 kg fat mamouth costs you the same a 1gram skinny ant just because as you say "they do the same" thing gamewise? That makes no sense mate.

Why not? I wouldn't buy a more expensive hat in World of Warcraft just because it had more pixels in it, either. I wouldn't pay more for a heavier car with the same performance, either. You get the idea... There's no reason why the end customer should be at all concerned with the amount of material used unless you plan to melt the thing down. What matters is performance. And looks, but you already discounted that, so no falling back to "a mammoth is cooler than an ant."

Achilles wrote:Snip

So there it is; my 0.02.

Mate comparing metal blisters model cost with plastic sprues is comparing apple and oranges... now try to look at GW metals and you will see that the price is in fact higher if you compare blister metal models VS blister metal models... And GW metals also dont have options... Mantic is the exception because you are comparing plastic vs plastic and thats more clearer to see the diferences

Just checked corvus belli store in spain vs GW spain and the price gap its funny. 7.75 euros for one 28mm minis on CB and a fat 11.50 euros for say a blister of a 28mm brettonian champ... Both with no options, both metals but both with a completly diferent quality... I think that was Delephont point?

It's weird how when these threads come up on Dakka they always presume the tipping point hasn't already happened.

At least for the GW part of the hobby, I'm already past that point. I used to have grand plans for a big ole' beastman army, but now I'll probably finish what I have and then put them in a box somewhere. It's not that I can't afford GW. I can. It's just that I don't feel like what I'm getting is worth what I'm paying, so I'm choosier. If I'm being choosy, I am not buying much, so I don't feel much pressure to finish what I have. If I don't finish what I have, I don't feel excited about buying new. It becomes a vicious cycle of apathy.

I'll probably here soon just start buying minis from smaller companies that I think present an interesting artistic challenge and maybe a game like Battletech or Infinity and basically be done with GW.

shealyr wrote:One of the great things about it is that an army is essentially a one-time expense. Once you buy a model, you can use it for years and years, with the only real expenses being a new codex/army book, and a few new models each edition.

Tell my poor chaos dwarf army that.

And no, an Indie GT rulebook doesn't cut it.

Johira: It's weird how when these threads come up on Dakka they always presume the tipping point hasn't already happened.

At least for the GW part of the hobby, I'm already past that point. I used to have grand plans for a big ole' beastman army, but now I'll probably finish what I have and then put them in a box somewhere. It's not that I can't afford GW. I can. It's just that I don't feel like what I'm getting is worth what I'm paying, so I'm choosier. If I'm being choosy, I am not buying much, so I don't feel much pressure to finish what I have. If I don't finish what I have, I don't feel excited about buying new. It becomes a vicious cycle of apathy.

I'll probably here soon just start buying minis from smaller companies that I think present an interesting artistic challenge and maybe a game like Battletech or Infinity and basically be done with GW.

And that's kind of where I'm at now as well. I'll finish my Ogre army and then have no plans to buy anything else. For me it's mainly perceived over real value; GW overstepped real value a long time ago and more recently my perceived value of the product was left behind. If I lived in a game store, I'd still be buying but since my life involves more than spending hour upon hour in a game store....uh, no. My 2 visits to a FLGS per month to play 1 game are not quite reason enough to sink the equivalent of new guttering for the house into something that sees so little use.

lord_blackfang wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:So it seems fair to you a 1 kg fat mamouth costs you the same a 1gram skinny ant just because as you say "they do the same" thing gamewise? That makes no sense mate.

Why not? I wouldn't buy a more expensive hat in World of Warcraft just because it had more pixels in it, either. I wouldn't pay more for a heavier car with the same performance, either. You get the idea... There's no reason why the end customer should be at all concerned with the amount of material used unless you plan to melt the thing down. What matters is performance. And looks, but you already discounted that, so no falling back to "a mammoth is cooler than an ant."

Because it costs a lot more money to cast a big metal mini rather then a small mini... Some bigger miniatures can even fill a full mould disc... so for each spin you only get one mini X while some small minis can be up to 8 or so per disc meaning... you get 8X more minis... The casting in metal is good for small things but once it gets to determined size its better check other materials... THats why it makes sense to cost more...
So makes no sense to say the materials/ cast etc are not a justifiable part of production costs and that they determine final retail prices... This is not magic the gathering cards or videogames this is actually 2 completly diferent sized objects with diferent production costs.

To be honest I'm moving more towards the skirmish/smaller armies.

Skirmish means every mini gets some special detail to it and means that with the extra attention looks better.

Smaller armies means less money spent but I still play and enjoy.

I'm not going to increase my main armies any more and am going to get rid of others.

Is it that time of month again?)

The "When will we all quit the hobby?" posts seem to appear like clockwork.

And to sidestep the main question, being in the hobby is not necessarily connected to what you spend. I'm off to auction off about 8k in used miniatures later today. A lot of people will grab bargains, and the people that dumped stuff will grab free stuff off the shelves. That's a lot of hobby going on.)

NAVARRO wrote:Because it costs a lot more money to cast a big metal mini rather then a small mini... Some bigger miniatures can even fill a full mould disc... so for each spin you only get one mini X while some small minis can be up to 8 or so per disc meaning... you get 8X more minis... The casting in metal is good for small things but once it gets to determined size its better check other materials... THats why it makes sense to cost more...

Not the customer's problem. If you want me to buy a mini for 8x the cost of another mini, make it 8x better and/or 8x cooler. I'm not paying for extra pewter just for the sake of extra pewter.

I would be happy if GW released static plastic miniature box sets (like the ones you get in the boxed games). They could be sold cheaper than mulit-part and allow you to fill up big units without going into the red.

Mr Proudhoof wrote:I would be happy if GW released static plastic miniature box sets (like the ones you get in the boxed games). They could be sold cheaper than mulit-part and allow you to fill up big units without going into the red.

You do know they have those for the Imperial Guard, Eldar, Space Marines, Tyranids, and Orks yeah?

$8.25 for 4-5 monopose models.

They did it for the Sea Guard from the Island of Blood boxed set too...except those are $16.75 for a frame and only available directly from GW.

Mr Proudhoof wrote:I would be happy if GW released static plastic miniature box sets (like the ones you get in the boxed games). They could be sold cheaper than mulit-part and allow you to fill up big units without going into the red.

Isn't that what they did with Assault on Black Reach?

lord_blackfang wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:Because it costs a lot more money to cast a big metal mini rather then a small mini... Some bigger miniatures can even fill a full mould disc... so for each spin you only get one mini X while some small minis can be up to 8 or so per disc meaning... you get 8X more minis... The casting in metal is good for small things but once it gets to determined size its better check other materials... THats why it makes sense to cost more...

Not the customer's problem. If you want me to buy a mini for 8x the cost of another mini, make it 8x better and/or 8x cooler. I'm not paying for extra pewter just for the sake of extra pewter.

Cooler is subjective while the costs of producing something is not... Unless its a self promoting product or samples or charity you are paying for the prices of production so yeah its a Customer problem.

I fail to understand your reasoning mate.

agnosto wrote:

Mr Proudhoof wrote:I would be happy if GW released static plastic miniature box sets (like the ones you get in the boxed games). They could be sold cheaper than mulit-part and allow you to fill up big units without going into the red.

Isn't that what they did with Assault on Black Reach?

I think he means like the ones they used to do for Fantasy (see below), though for me this would be step backwards for GW

NAVARRO wrote:I fail to understand your reasoning mate.

Two identical miniatures. One is solid, one is hollow.

My position is that the customer shouldn't have to pay for the extra material in the solid miniature because it is completely irrelevant to him whether the miniature is hollow or not.

I dearly hope you can now understand my reasoning, because I can't explain my position any more clearly. Whether you agree or not is your choice. I'm done.

NAVARRO wrote:

Achilles wrote:Snip

So there it is; my 0.02.

Mate comparing metal blisters model cost with plastic sprues is comparing apple and oranges... now try to look at GW metals and you will see that the price is in fact higher if you compare blister metal models VS blister metal models... And GW metals also dont have options... Mantic is the exception because you are comparing plastic vs plastic and thats more clearer to see the diferences

Just checked corvus belli store in spain vs GW spain and the price gap its funny. 7.75 euros for one 28mm minis on CB and a fat 11.50 euros for say a blister of a 28mm brettonian champ... Both with no options, both metals but both with a completly diferent quality... I think that was Delephont point?

I was comparing base cost to play the game (which doesn't seem to change).

The point I was making is that skirmish games cost overall the same to play in the end as the mass combat games. I've spent over 400 dollars on MERCs overall. I've got twenty metal figures, a rulebook and four sets of cards. I've spent about $400 on my Blood angels army. I've got about fifty figures, a rulebook and codex. I've spent over $2000 dollars on Infinity. I've got about eighty figures and two Rulebooks. I've spent about $2000 on my Forge World Red Scorpions. I've got about 200 figures and some Rulebooks.

All I'm trying to say is that in my experience the low model count skirmish games cost you as much as the big battle ones do. In the end, it doesn't seem to me to be apples and oranges at all.

£18.00 for 10 orc boyz is unbelievable.
Roll on Mantic, I say.

lord_blackfang wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:I fail to understand your reasoning mate.

Two identical miniatures. One is solid, one is hollow.

My position is that the customer shouldn't have to pay for the extra material in the solid miniature because it is completely irrelevant to him whether the miniature is hollow or not.

I dearly hope you can now understand my reasoning, because I can't explain my position any more clearly. Whether you agree or not is your choice. I'm done.

Your example would be more accurate with your past arguments if you said:

The exact same 2 miniature one costs Y and the other costs Y+X
- Makes sense to you if if X means it can fire tunderbolts from its fingertips
- Makes no sense to you if X refers to the actual production costs of the miniature

Also Hollow vs full mini is not a good example because your comparing bad design with good design.

You seem a bit stressed to have a casual talk, chat, argument over this... Sorry if it somehow disturbs you.

Starting Hell Dorado soon, So cheap man full 200 point army gonna cost around 100 - 120 bucks.

Achilles wrote:Hey Delephont, I don't want to pick an argument but I feel like your comment may not be entirely factual. I play ALL the games you mentioned (as can be seen on my Blog or various Skirmish game threads here on Dakka). Requiring less models to play doesn't necessarily mean you spend less money getting into that game. I'll base this all on The Warstore so as to show spending with standard internet discount rates (which, BTW, I didn't pay... I buy most everything brick and mortar).

Here's an example of me getting into the following games in a similar fashion to buying a GW Starter Set ($90, typically 30-90 models for two sides, rules and stats for all therein), except I only get one side so I have to hope someone else comes along that has an army.;

MERCs;

Rulebook (there are no model stats in here, Cards MUST be purchased separately) - $28
CCC Cards - $7
All five CCC figs (you need all five to play) - $40


$75 - 1 Book, 8 Cards and 5 non-customizable metal models. If I want to know what the rules for the three other factions are that will cost me an additional $21 for their card sets.

Infinity - Caveate; the rules are free online for this game, but I'm still including the Rulebook to show a luddites cost...

Infinity 2nd Ed Rulebook; $40
Human Sphere Rulebook (for the remaining model stats); $40
Pan Oc Aciemento Starter Box (6 Figs); $38
Peacemaker Armbot (2 figs ); $28

This is a very small Pan Oc force (<200pts). Total cost is $146 for 2 Rulebooks and 8 figures (one on a 40mm base). I could cut it down to $66 by having all my rules electronically and only have 8 non customizable metal figures.

Malifaux -

Malifaux 1st Edition Rulebook; $28
Fate Deck; $6
Ortega Starter Set; $31

So I've got a fairly small 25 Soulstone Guild force of six Family models for $65, plus a rulebook and the deck of cards needed to play.

It should be noted I will have to pay shipping on all of this as well in order to get my 20% off... which will add cost.

Mantic is an exception to the rule, but they require a similar total number of figures to a Warhammer game as their 'standard game size'. At roughly a dollar a fig that certainly does put them on the right side of affordable! Their character figures are roughly 5 dollars a piece in metal (usually $20 for four).

My roundabout point is that comparing companies like CB or MERCs (or Wyrd or DP9, etc) to 'main market' miniature lines is not really going to work. Those companies tend to produce 100% non-customizable metal lines (with resin occasionally), but charging $8-10 per figure on average. GW tends to charge in the $4-5 per figure range for customizable plastics in individual boxes, sometimes lower (Battalions, Brigades and starter sets come in around $1-3 per figure). Kings of War charges roughly $1 per figure for what are arguably comparable but smaller scale infantry in a similar genre. Before going TU Wargames Factory tried to do the same.

Not trying to pick a fight; but as an addictive personality Polygamerist I know what I've spent on the dozens of games I play. In each case it tends to be a similar amount for a 'playable' game. Whether that nets me 6 figures or 80 figures depends upon the production capacity and production capital of the company in questions. Small basement-miniature companies NEED to charge premium prices in order to stay ahead of their production costs that are inflated by low volume and outsourcing. Bigger companies that own their own infrastructure can charge less by using different materials and owning their own manufacturing.

So there it is; my 0.02.

Ahh, but there in lies the crunch.....the examples you use above indicate you buying everything you need to play those other games.....if you're disciplined, then those costs could be your only cost, and thats it, enjoy MERCS, Infinity, etc....now the GW comparrison is a Starter box only, can you say "that's it" after buying your starter set? of course not, thats just the beginning isn't it.

Now my point is partly what Navarro pointed out, i.e comparing metal blisters with metal blisters, but also, when you consider the amount of plastic needed to field a "complete" army from GW compared to a metal army from either Infinity, MERCS, etc...then the difference in price becomes a lot more considerable......now I haven't checked these numbers, but, if I need 5 minis from MERCS at £10 each, thats £50! How much of any army for WH40K can I buy for £50?......not much. Hell thats just a bit more than a Landraider.....one vehicle.

But your argument cuts both ways. I just as easily COULD play with a GW starter set forever. Would it have options or be competitive? Not very... But neither will a master and five minions in Malifaux that often only add up to a 20 SS crew (30-35SS being standard).

Likewise I can't teach anyone to play with just a single army. To get a complete starter set equivalent will cost me a lot more money.

When I started 40k at the end of 4th edition, I thought it was an expensive hobby. At 16, and working part time making terrible money/tips... it took me a good year or more to amass a small 1500 point SM army. Bought up BoM Marine Spures, Ebay'd Unbuilt vehicles, hunted for deals. Ended up spending around 350 USD with Glue, Paint, Models, Books, and so on.

Now that I actually make some money, it doesn't seem that expensive. When I was a kid I didn't pay for car/alcohol/gas/college/girls as much. I still live at home, but the money I do make tends to go to different things. I added up a Mech IG List I wanted to do... it was going to run me around 550 USD... off the warstore.

My Daemons of Chaos army? I still used Ebay/cheap means/conversion to buy models. Ended up running me around the 300 USD even when most of the models I purchased were under half retail.

I'm halfway through college at the moment without student loans (That'll change in another year), but when I move out/finally start teaching I doubt I'd play that much. Once everything is settled and I'm in my late twenties/early thirties and have a stable income/system working I'll be able to blow money. At the moment, I can't really wrap my mind about blowing money I could use for bills or car repairs/upkeep on an army that I then have to blow time building and painting.

As I've gotten older, I seem to have less time to put into the hobby, and the hobby itself is still as expensive. When I was a kid 300$ was a huge investment for an army. Now when an army is 500~$, even with a job that pays well I can't justify the cost. I'll keep the two armies I have and finish painting/working on them and enjoy the every other weekend I can get a few games in.

It's a great hobby, but not all that realistic to college kids/people working around the clock. I can definitely see myself playing more when I'm older. Then again I never factored in kids/wife. Such is life as a Wargamer

Achilles wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:

Achilles wrote:Snip

So there it is; my 0.02.

Mate comparing metal blisters model cost with plastic sprues is comparing apple and oranges... now try to look at GW metals and you will see that the price is in fact higher if you compare blister metal models VS blister metal models... And GW metals also dont have options... Mantic is the exception because you are comparing plastic vs plastic and thats more clearer to see the diferences

Just checked corvus belli store in spain vs GW spain and the price gap its funny. 7.75 euros for one 28mm minis on CB and a fat 11.50 euros for say a blister of a 28mm brettonian champ... Both with no options, both metals but both with a completly diferent quality... I think that was Delephont point?

I was comparing base cost to play the game (which doesn't seem to change).

The point I was making is that skirmish games cost overall the same to play in the end as the mass combat games. I've spent over 400 dollars on MERCs overall. I've got twenty metal figures, a rulebook and four sets of cards. I've spent about $400 on my Blood angels army. I've got about fifty figures, a rulebook and codex. I've spent over $2000 dollars on Infinity. I've got about eighty figures and two Rulebooks. I've spent about $2000 on my Forge World Red Scorpions. I've got about 200 figures and some Rulebooks.

All I'm trying to say is that in my experience the low model count skirmish games cost you as much as the big battle ones do. In the end, it doesn't seem to me to be apples and oranges at all.

Mate I do know what your talking about since I spend a lot more on my skirmish than on my mass battle games...

But its a diferent "problem" and you only do that because of the fact that to enter one game and buy one faction is a lot cheaper, so you go extra mile and buy ALL factions and pretty much everything.... You could compare that if you BUY ALL ehehe GW armies and minis... going to crunch some numbers after that? or do you need to sell a kidney or two

The thing is for playing a game with average conditions... rules and minis for your faction the skirmish is cheaper... but if you go and buy everything then sure skirmish is a lot more addictive and you end up spending more.

Space Marine army, 2000 points, around 500-700 dollars, can play it forever, pretty much.

Night with a hooker.....1000 dollars. 1 hour with a hooker, 250. Weekend with a hooker, 3000. ( Got my stats from news stories about Charlie Sheen.)

Xbox 250. Call of Duty Modern Warfare 55. Xbox account 9 dollars a month. Can play as along as there are players and the system is supported.

I think GW figures are a great hobby investment.

That being said, I used to spend a couple thousand a year. In the past 2 years I've bought......2 vindicators, 3 chimeras, and 80 dollars in bitz from the warstore. 5th Edition is not as much fun for me as 4th was, which was not as much fun as 3rd. I think the rules and codexes, with a few exceptions, were balanced better and the game was alot more fun. But that's just me.

The hobby is already to expensie. I rarely buy anything, new or second hand.
Although im in my early 20's so im not exactly "set" when it comes to finance and along of my friends are living off student loans.

Although we came up with some decent swaps to keep out hobby going.
I have a friends grav tanks that he wasn't uning, in return i'm giving him some land speeders i'm not using.
I also gave away the old BA honour guard (jump imfantry) apothocary to another friend who needed a sang priest and converted another friend a new DP using the spare bits from his kit, a wartrakk and some odd bitz (iron warriors DP).

I've also found a use for kinder eggs.

It's amazing what "new" models you can gather when you put your mind to it. Which is most likely why the swap shop does so well ^.^

Auxellion wrote:

As I've gotten older, I seem to have less time to put into the hobby, and the hobby itself is still as expensive. When I was a kid 300$ was a huge investment for an army. Now when an army is 500~$, even with a job that pays well I can't justify the cost. I'll keep the two armies I have and finish painting/working on them and enjoy the every other weekend I can get a few games in.

It's a great hobby, but not all that realistic to college kids/people working around the clock. I can definitely see myself playing more when I'm older. Then again I never factored in kids/wife. Such is life as a Wargamer

I'm 35 with a wife and a 10month old. I have one night a week that is game night and the guys come over to play 40k. About once a month I'll pop up to the FLGS on a Sat afternoon to get some games in. For me, dedicating one night a week does not take away from family time - in fact its better for them. I make sure I can get my nerd on and relieve stress. Now the wife wants me to do it because I am a happier person. If playing with little plastic army men is what keeps you from going postal then make sure you dedicate some time to it. When the wife and I first got together I quit all gaming - and became miserable. Life can be tough with its demands, but if you don't have any fun at all it can become crushing.

As far as the money portion, so what, its only money. I am constantly amazed to see people on this site bitch about GW prices - on items that they don't need. Where is the bitching about gas/food/electricity/insurance/interest rates/etc. These are things that are needed, you can't choose to not buy them like you can on GW products. You don't see a family planning on what bills they can pay late to be able to by a storm raven (at least I hope like hell you don't see this!), but you do see it when comparing the power bill and food on the table. If its too expensive then don't play.

Vrakk wrote:

Auxellion wrote:

As I've gotten older, I seem to have less time to put into the hobby, and the hobby itself is still as expensive. When I was a kid 300$ was a huge investment for an army. Now when an army is 500~$, even with a job that pays well I can't justify the cost. I'll keep the two armies I have and finish painting/working on them and enjoy the every other weekend I can get a few games in.

It's a great hobby, but not all that realistic to college kids/people working around the clock. I can definitely see myself playing more when I'm older. Then again I never factored in kids/wife. Such is life as a Wargamer

I'm 35 with a wife and a 10month old. I have one night a week that is game night and the guys come over to play 40k. About once a month I'll pop up to the FLGS on a Sat afternoon to get some games in. For me, dedicating one night a week does not take away from family time - in fact its better for them. I make sure I can get my nerd on and relieve stress. Now the wife wants me to do it because I am a happier person. If playing with little plastic army men is what keeps you from going postal then make sure you dedicate some time to it. When the wife and I first got together I quit all gaming - and became miserable. Life can be tough with its demands, but if you don't have any fun at all it can become crushing.

As far as the money portion, so what, its only money. I am constantly amazed to see people on this site bitch about GW prices - on items that they don't need. Where is the bitching about gas/food/electricity/insurance/interest rates/etc. These are things that are needed, you can't choose to not buy them like you can on GW products. You don't see a family planning on what bills they can pay late to be able to by a storm raven (at least I hope like hell you don't see this!), but you do see it when comparing the power bill and food on the table. If its too expensive then don't play.

If its too expensive then dont play, yes I agree that its the first advice you should give to someone who is having troubles in financing the hobby but unlike you, I do understand and Im not amazed with the "bitchin"... and reading your personal experience of quiting the hobby and feeling miserable about that and getting back on it , you should to... I mean you had the option to get back to the hobby you love if you wanted but many just dont have that choice anymore and being forced to abandon something they have done for years and loved its bitchin material if you ask me

I know I know its life...