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I agree.

But I thought of the case of the Custodes. Before the HH, these guys were considered as being the best fighting force of the galaxy. They were the elite of the elite. Super-duper-soldiers. They had the training, the equipment and the experience making them the best soldiers of the IoM.

But since the HH, they have a much more limited role. They never leave Terra, they are not seen on the battlefield anymore and their last field engagement seems to be the Second Siege of the Imperial Palace in M36! They became purely bodyguards, whereas before the HH, they were used as a fighting force fairly often. I agree that they are still super-duper-soldiers with incredible fighting skills, but their role has been reduced to those of bodyguards.

I guess something similar happened to the "Old Hundred", the first terran regiments. They used to be an elite fighting force, but they are now nothing more than a PDF garrison. Probably the best trained and equipped PDF of the galaxy, but still a garrison and order-enforcing force.

Tmonster wrote:however the byzant janissary are on the site of lexicanum, as part of the old hundred. There is nothing there about mericans though

Yes, the Byzant Janizars ARE canon - as well as being in the BOLS supplement, they're actually in the HH novels.

However, the Merican Fusiliers are not - they were invented fully for the BOLS supplement

Laodamia wrote:I agree.

But I thought of the case of the Custodes. Before the HH, these guys were considered as being the best fighting force of the galaxy. They were the elite of the elite. Super-duper-soldiers. They had the training, the equipment and the experience making them the best soldiers of the IoM.

But since the HH, they have a much more limited role. They never leave Terra, they are not seen on the battlefield anymore and their last field engagement seems to be the Second Siege of the Imperial Palace in M36! They became purely bodyguards, whereas before the HH, they were used as a fighting force fairly often. I agree that they are still super-duper-soldiers with incredible fighting skills, but their role has been reduced to those of bodyguards.

I guess something similar happened to the "Old Hundred", the first terran regiments. They used to be an elite fighting force, but they are now nothing more than a PDF garrison. Probably the best trained and equipped PDF of the galaxy, but still a garrison and order-enforcing force.

Well, in the case of the Custodes, they are believed to be effectively immortal. Considering that Constantine Valdor was apparently still alive in M36, despite having served during the Horus Heresy, its not unlikely that many of these Custodes are veterans of the Great Crusade, and they still spend all their time in the Imperial Palace training, and warfare hasn't really evolved in the 10k years since the Heresy so....

The Old Hundred though are probably a paper tiger though.

Melissia wrote:Because Terra is controlled by the Ecclesiarchy, not the Munitorum.

Though there are technically terran Praefects as mentioned above...

Terra isnt controlled by the Ecclesiarchy, its just the Ecclesiarchy is once more based on Terra, and is an indipendent entity of the Administratum who may/may not be the "rulers" or Terra.

Realistically though, its the High Lords as a group who rule Terra directly, OR what ever local governance the Emperor had in place before his whole Golden Throne debacle are still in place. Which could lead to significant parts of Terra having a continuing -if limited- amount of self determination, if "Blood Games" is any thing to go by.

The Old Hundred no doubt are the best equipped IG regiments in the galaxy, but they're likely very inexperienced, and are much more honor guards than an actual fighting force.

One of the ideas I had when starting my IG was a Terran regiment. Basically, as pilgrims got off their ships on Terra, Officers would scoop up a percentage of them as 'volunteers', and send them to training camps before shipping them off to fight.

ChrisWWII wrote:The Old Hundred no doubt are the best equipped IG regiments in the galaxy, but they're likely very inexperienced, and are much more honor guards than an actual fighting force.

This imo. I'm sure there is definately a Terran Imp Guard/PDF force, but given that anyone would have to fight their way through the rest of the Imperium to get to Terra, if these guys don't get cycled through the rest of the active conflicts which it seems they don't they'd have been reduced to little more than a ceremonial force, good for nothing more than parades. Well armed, but not battle hardened, probably questionable in conflict morale wise, and out of shape in my opinion.

Only other way I could consider this is that Terra doesn't have a PDF, and the role is cycled through the rest of the Imperium as a highly sought after battle honour for regiments making the force more a mash up of different elite forces that are sent to Terra for a period of time, before shipping back out and being replaced by another regiment.

Has anyone considered the possibility that Terran PDF may be made up of hand-picked veterans from across the galaxy?

Alternatively, the most reasonable thing I can think of is that Terran PDF is in fact made up entirely of stormtroopers (from the Schola Progmentium or whatever its called).

Ya I agree plus why don't they have a space marine chapter based out of terra? I know they have custodians but as far as I know they don't have a space marine chapter stationed there.

Fury_00011 wrote:Ya I agree plus why don't they have a space marine chapter based out of terra? I know they have custodians but as far as I know they don't have a space marine chapter stationed there.

Imperial Fists.

Ah ok I knew they helped diffend Tera during the heresy but it didn't know they were still based on tera

The Imperial Fists are only based on Terra in name. In realisty they're a fleet based chapter aboard the Phalanx.

Most SM chapters go to Terra on pilgrimages...
Imperial authorities would be understandably hesitant at having a chapter of marines based on Terra.
Also as a side note Arbites are usually equally equipped and sometimes better equipped than Imperial guard.

purplefood wrote:Most SM chapters go to Terra on pilgrimages...
Imperial authorities would be understandably hesitant at having a chapter of marines based on Terra.
Also as a side note Arbites are usually equally equipped and sometimes better equipped than Imperial guard.

They also have their own ships like the Strike Cruisers for instance in Execution Hour..

ChrisWWII wrote:The Imperial Fists are only based on Terra in name. In realisty they're a fleet based chapter aboard the Phalanx.

True, but they are part of the segmentum solar defence, as in this is where the bulk of their fighting forces are stationed.

Reading through this thread you get yet another idea of how massive the Imperiums defenses in Segmentum Solar are.

I really think GW should introduced some kind of large-scale attack on Terra one day to make things more interesting. Terra doesn't have to fall, that would be jumping the shark too much and disturb too much of the status quo. However, a surprise Necron, Tyranid, or even Chaos attack on Terra would be pretty exciting, and a chance to finally see the Terran PDF and Custodes in action.

Harriticus wrote:
I really think GW should introduced some kind of large-scale attack on Terra one day to make things more interesting. Terra doesn't have to fall, that would be jumping the shark too much and disturb too much of the status quo. However, a surprise Necron, Tyranid, or even Chaos attack on Terra would be pretty exciting, and a chance to finally see the Terran PDF and Custodes in action.

That would suggest that the Imperium's been crippled and is losing vast amounts of ground or a major force managed to somehow slip past their most powerful defences. Only the Necrons would the capability to try something like that, and even then I'm not sure how successful it would be with a large force (as opposed to the three ships that landed on Mars).

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Harriticus wrote:
I really think GW should introduced some kind of large-scale attack on Terra one day to make things more interesting. Terra doesn't have to fall, that would be jumping the shark too much and disturb too much of the status quo. However, a surprise Necron, Tyranid, or even Chaos attack on Terra would be pretty exciting, and a chance to finally see the Terran PDF and Custodes in action.

That would suggest that the Imperium's been crippled and is losing vast amounts of ground or a major force managed to somehow slip past their most powerful defences. Only the Necrons would the capability to try something like that, and even then I'm not sure how successful it would be with a large force (as opposed to the three ships that landed on Mars).

They could write something in that would let forces other then the Necrons suddenly appear in Segmentum Solar. The Warps instability and unpredictability practically asks for such a thing.

I think the terran pdf and regiments are nothing more now than what the Napoleonic Imperial guard were.That is they're the most elite bodyguards out there that pretty much never get used.

@JazzyJ: Not to be rude, but Napoleons guards were drawn from the most hardened veterans of the entire french army and were regularly deployed. they rutienly served as Napoleon's tactical reserve and were used to smash any potential enemy breakthroughs or to exploit a breakthrough.

anyways, as for the old 100, I'd postulate that they might be some of the original stormtrooper regiments, highly trained, well equiped and sent to the hottest warzones. the reason you wouldnt see them on a battle honour roll is because, like other storm trooper regiments, they are deployed on a company scale or smaller. this might lso support them being bodyguards for high ranking officers and such as they would be the best trained and equiped men or women for the job and probably have experience assasinating people.

Harriticus wrote:

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Harriticus wrote:
I really think GW should introduced some kind of large-scale attack on Terra one day to make things more interesting. Terra doesn't have to fall, that would be jumping the shark too much and disturb too much of the status quo. However, a surprise Necron, Tyranid, or even Chaos attack on Terra would be pretty exciting, and a chance to finally see the Terran PDF and Custodes in action.

That would suggest that the Imperium's been crippled and is losing vast amounts of ground or a major force managed to somehow slip past their most powerful defences. Only the Necrons would the capability to try something like that, and even then I'm not sure how successful it would be with a large force (as opposed to the three ships that landed on Mars).

They could write something in that would let forces other then the Necrons suddenly appear in Segmentum Solar. The Warps instability and unpredictability practically asks for such a thing.

The thing is, Necrons do not use the warp for travel so another alternative reason must be found. I'm sure Mr. Ward would be able to give us some surprising story if GW ever decides to do a battle of Terra 2 campaign.

Harriticus wrote:
They could write something in that would let forces other then the Necrons suddenly appear in Segmentum Solar. The Warps instability and unpredictability practically asks for such a thing.

However, I doubt that it could happen with the ships being in such a number to remotely threaten Terra. It would likely have to be the equivalent of an entire Black Crusade to have a chance of taking Terra, and even they wouldn't have enough time to do so before reinforcements arrive. I really don't see it happening.

Conservationist wrote:The thing is, Necrons do not use the warp for travel so another alternative reason must be found.

The Necrons made it to Mars with five Shroud Class Light Cruisers if I recall correctly. They don't use the warp, but that is a strength - their ships are fast and difficult to intercept, and their faster-than-light travel is far more reliable. That and their ships, one-on-one, are typically far superior.

I think its safe to assume Terra has IG regiments along with its PDF. I dont see why they wouldnt, and as for being inexperienced I would doubt that. They probably spend a great deal of time training becouse I think the guard regiments from the most important world in the Imperium would be well trained. They probably have been in many wars like other IG regiments as well.