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1hadhq wrote:
2) the Inquisition has not much menpower/vehicles. They have to rely upon the IoM's military branches.

I second that.

the Inquisition does not have any form of armed forces under its direct command. There is no "Inquisition army or fleet", because it is simply not a fighting or military force in the first point. It is easy to forget that since, in terms of game, when we say "inquisitor", we immediately think of a badass in termy armor with a huge gun. But the inquisition doesn't have any soldier under its direct command.

However, due to their extreme political influence, they can quite easily summon vast amounts of troops under their command. A single Inquisitor can easily end up commanding IG regiments or a small Navy fleet. Asking for the support of larger IG divisions, or astartes contingents will be more difficult, but not impossible.
In addition, due to their mandate which brings them to fight against xenos and heretics, they will often work with, or command SoB, GK or Deathwatch units.

All in all, the inquisition could relatively easily ask for the destruction of a SM, we have multiple examples of SM chapters being declared renegade and destroyed according to the inquisition's orders. In some cases (like with the Celestial Lions), the SM chapter only had to piss off the Inq to end up being wiped out.


But destroying the Black Templars would simply be impossible for the Inq. They are too many, too widespread and have a far too great reputation and influence to fear the Inq's wrath.

purplefood wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:Black Templar standing up in full force against the Inquisition? Two things:

1) Exterminatus the world their forces are on. Done. Sacrificing a world means nothing; its a cheap cost to make.
2) An Inquisitorial Fleet is much much much bigger than the Black Templar's.

The Templars wouldn't stand a chance.

FireWolf698 wrote:Despite all this...I still think the Space Wolves hold the record for telling the Inquisition where they can bury their noses...

Hence why I think the Space Wolves personally are bordering on heretics. Striking a devout member of the God-Emperor's Holy Inquisition; is a clean sign of heresy.

Inquisitors are on a balanced footing with older chapters, they are less powerful that first founding chapters and more powerful than new founding chapters

Incorrect. Inquisitors answer only to their Ordo and the Emperor. Nobody else has power over them. The Inquisition however has power over everything, High Lords of Terra included.

The legion successors get a lot of leeway.
SW have proved they are devoted defenders of the Imperium and they have allies in many organisations as well as enemies. They have a fair amount of political power as well.
Don't try pulling the whole mutant arguments either c'os that doesn't fly whatsoever.

They haven't got anywhere near the amount of political support to even be a blip in the radar against the Inquisition.

1) major mistake. Crusading forces are based on fleets, thus they are also "in space" and won't sit there having their ground troops attacked
2) the Inquisition has not much menpower/vehicles. They have to rely upon the IoM's military branches.
3) does the Inquisition know how many BT are out there, yet? Last time I checked they didn't...

The problem here is, the Inquisition acts more behind the scenes than openly.
So any "power" of the =I= is based on knowledge and influence where it counts.
Look at events like the Badab war. The Inquisiton had its fingers in this, but did not directly command at the front. They pulled the strings and gathered
forces to fight. But there is no "Inq.fleet" to oppose anyone on its own. Still either selfsupporting forces ( SM ) or IG + IN.

Inq Fleet = Requisitioned Imperial Fleet; of whole range of sizes. Nobody can say no.

They may not know how many BT are out there; but the moment a BT attacks an Inquisitor; the full weight of the Imperial Inquisition can be brought down on them.

And it varies; quite a few Inquisitors are VERY open about everything and will not hesistate to requisition while not being polite. Coteaz, Karmazov and Vokes come to mind.

The High Lords are the Emperor's Voice.

Thats the Inquisition. The Inquisition watches for taint in the High Lord and every other aspect of the Imperium.

It really does...
Some Inq. are utter asshats and will go about with the subtlety of a hammer whereas others will realise they need willing allies not servants.
Mainly the puritans fall into the first catagory and the others are seperated between the 2 catagories.

Kanluwen wrote:Which in turn tends to result in those Inquisitors getting a stern talking to, since Inquisitors can be replaced far easier than Marines.

Yeah, this. Inquisitors probably outnumber the space marines a hundred to one, at least (I figure there's probably one for every ten plants :3). Space marines usually have their orders already, if they're somewhere where an inquisitor is.

Do people know how difficult it is to be a proper Inquisitor? Its easier to be an SM than an Inquisitor.

Mr Hyena wrote:Do people know how difficult it is to be a proper Inquisitor? Its easier to be an SM than an Inquisitor.

In terms of skill maybe...
In terms of numbers probably not.
An Inq. will ask for SM help because they know they have a mission to do and cannot get obgged down with a prideful SM chapter telling them to f**k off and forcing the Inq. to order them.
If the Inq. asks the chapter usually says yes.
The grey area is in the authority thing but most Inq. won't order a first successor chapter about because of the political power they weirld.
Other chapters are not so lucky but usually recieve the same treatment.

Mr Hyena wrote:

Inquisitors are on a balanced footing with older chapters, they are less powerful that first founding chapters and more powerful than new founding chapters

They haven't got anywhere near the amount of political support to even be a blip in the radar against the Inquisition.

I'm sorry but from actual published fluff and the fact that first founding chapters can do what ever they want (bar turning on the Emperor) your blanket statement is very inaccurate.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:

Inquisitors are on a balanced footing with older chapters, they are less powerful that first founding chapters and more powerful than new founding chapters

They haven't got anywhere near the amount of political support to even be a blip in the radar against the Inquisition.

I'm sorry but from actual published fluff and the fact that first founding chapters can do what ever they want (bar turning on the Emperor) your blanket statement is very inaccurate.

Except the Inquisition represents the Emperor. The Inquisition is the word of the Emperor.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Mr Hyena wrote:

Inquisitors are on a balanced footing with older chapters, they are less powerful that first founding chapters and more powerful than new founding chapters

They haven't got anywhere near the amount of political support to even be a blip in the radar against the Inquisition.

I'm sorry but from actual published fluff and the fact that first founding chapters can do what ever they want (bar turning on the Emperor) your blanket statement is very inaccurate.

Ultramarines and SW definatly have some political power. Sw have been in fights with damn near every Imperial organisation at one point or another and the Ultramarines have a fair amount of chapters willing to back them as well as many people outside both the Astartes and Ultramar.

Laodamia wrote:

1hadhq wrote:
2) the Inquisition has not much menpower/vehicles. They have to rely upon the IoM's military branches.

I second that.

the Inquisition does not have any form of armed forces under its direct command. There is no "Inquisition army or fleet", because it is simply not a fighting or military force in the first point. It is easy to forget that since, in terms of game, when we say "inquisitor", we immediately think of a badass in termy armor with a huge gun. But the inquisition doesn't have any soldier under its direct command.

Not entirely correct. The Inquisition maintains a presence on many capital worlds (either well known and imposing, or a closely-guarded secret), not to mention listening posts, and out-of-the-way research stations. Accordingly it maintains a standing army to guard/maintain/staff these. These are primarilly Inquisition Storm Troopers. In 'Scourge the Heretic' there is a good example of these troops maintaining a psyker holding station for the Black Ships, and how they are used to raid emerging threats.

Its a little known fact that all Storm Troopers are trained for =][= use, and the lowest performing are passed onto the Guard. This shows how exacting the standards to become part of the Inquisition's standing army are.

Mr Hyena wrote:
Inq Fleet = Requisitioned Imperial Fleet; of whole range of sizes. Nobody can say no.

They may not know how many BT are out there; but the moment a BT attacks an Inquisitor; the full weight of the Imperial Inquisition can be brought down on them.

And it varies; quite a few Inquisitors are VERY open about everything and will not hesistate to requisition while not being polite. Coteaz, Karmazov and Vokes come to mind.

How about an example?

BTW, I can say no. Am I nobody?

BT only attack heretics. Some Inquistors did turn in the past.....
Now, additionally there are Inquisitors MIA.....

Maybe the deepstriking unit the =I= called in for support just landed on his head....you know accidents happen...

Its a little known fact that all Storm Troopers are trained for =][= use, and the lowest performing are passed onto the Guard. This shows how exacting the standards to become part of the Inquisition's standing army are.

Bollocks. I've yet to see any piece of background about "all Storm Troopers are trained for Inquisitorial use".

The Inquisition, however, does maintain training facilities which recruit from the Schola Progenium. There's also a number of families which the Inquisition seemingly recruits from specifically because of their outstanding service to the Imperium previous.

Kanluwen wrote:

Its a little known fact that all Storm Troopers are trained for =][= use, and the lowest performing are passed onto the Guard. This shows how exacting the standards to become part of the Inquisition's standing army are.

Bollocks. I've yet to see any piece of background about "all Storm Troopers are trained for Inquisitorial use".

The Inquisition, however, does maintain training facilities which recruit from the Schola Progenium. There's also a number of families which the Inquisition seemingly recruits from specifically because of their outstanding service to the Imperium previous.

Amberly Vail in Caves of Ice makes a comment on how Storm Troopers are trained for Inq. use but many fail to make the mark and are "palmed off on the guard" they are still efficient killers but obviously not as good as the guys who make the grade.

^^^^
That's where I was taking my info from.

Of course, all canon. is subject to interpretation.

purplefood wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Its a little known fact that all Storm Troopers are trained for =][= use, and the lowest performing are passed onto the Guard. This shows how exacting the standards to become part of the Inquisition's standing army are.

Bollocks. I've yet to see any piece of background about "all Storm Troopers are trained for Inquisitorial use".

The Inquisition, however, does maintain training facilities which recruit from the Schola Progenium. There's also a number of families which the Inquisition seemingly recruits from specifically because of their outstanding service to the Imperium previous.

Amberly Vail in Caves of Ice makes a comment on how Storm Troopers are trained for Inq. use but many fail to make the mark and are "palmed off on the guard" they are still efficient killers but obviously not as good as the guys who make the grade.

The Kasrkin disprove this theory--and tell me that Sandy Mitchell needs to get his crap together.

I direly wish people would stop citing Cain as 'canon'.
It's, frankly, meant to be very tongue-in-cheek, propaganda styled fiction in the vein of the 'Flashman' or Horatio Hornblower pieces.

Yeah i know but that is the only bit where it appears.
I was just citing the one part i knew of.

So that's the only place it's appeared?

I guess that puts it to bed then

It's bollocks!

Kanluwen wrote:So that's the only place it's appeared?

I guess that puts it to bed then

It's bollocks!

More or less.
It is pretty bad but as far as cannon goes the Cain series sticks to it for the most part.

FourCartridge wrote:IMO the Inquisition pretty much runs the entire Imperium.

Very true but in the wrong way. They are not running the Imperium, they are letting that to Sector Commanders and Planetary Governors. Their job in fact is to seek traitors and taints in the Human race. But, occasionally, when some commander is wanting more power and has a little empire in his mind - Inquisition reacts and replace him with some new "more faithful" commander. And they only don't have authority over Space Marines chapters. But they are watching them constantly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr Hyena wrote:Black Templar standing up in full force against the Inquisition? Two things:

1) Exterminatus the world their forces are on. Done. Sacrificing a world means nothing; its a cheap cost to make.
2) An Inquisitorial Fleet is much much much bigger than the Black Templar's.

The Templars wouldn't stand a chance.

1) They are crusader fleet with most of their ship being Space Marine battle barges or Emperor class battleships. So they are force to be reckon even for the Imperial Navy. And their favorite tactics in space is to teleport Terminators and sword brethren to enemy ships and stations and kill the enemy. And they don't have planets under their control, they recruit initiates as they help liberate the world or defend it.
2) I already said that they have finest ships in their fleet + they just love to teleport to other ships and show you how they handle thunderhammer in close combat.

Do you know what is the force of 6000+ marines is son? Not to mention other Templar chapters (overall it makes something like 9000+ marines ). Check HH if you have forgotten.

In particular the space wolves come to mind, if an inquisitor they didnt trust or respect came to them and told them help, he may meet with a 'I dropped my bolter, and it er...went off, several times, directly into his face.'

Laodamia wrote:

1hadhq wrote:
2) the Inquisition has not much menpower/vehicles. They have to rely upon the IoM's military branches.

I second that.

the Inquisition does not have any form of armed forces under its direct command. There is no "Inquisition army or fleet", because it is simply not a fighting or military force in the first point. It is easy to forget that since, in terms of game, when we say "inquisitor", we immediately think of a badass in termy armor with a huge gun. But the inquisition doesn't have any soldier under its direct command.

The Inquisition has stormtroopers, and each section of the Inquisition has its own militant forces to spare (Grey Knights, Sisters of Battle, and the Deathwatch). Each is under the direct control of their respective Inquisitional branches.

Brother Coa wrote:

1) They are crusader fleet with most of their ship being Space Marine battle barges or Emperor class battleships. So they are force to be reckon even for the Imperial Navy. And their favorite tactics in space is to teleport Terminators and sword brethren to enemy ships and stations and kill the enemy. And they don't have planets under their control, they recruit initiates as they help liberate the world or defend it.

The Inquisition can muster the force of every single ship in the Imperium if need be. As numerous as the Black Templar may be, they've got nothing on the Inquisition's firepower.

2) I already said that they have finest ships in their fleet + they just love to teleport to other ships and show you how they handle thunderhammer in close combat.

And it's not like the Inquisition doesn't have plenty of powerful individuals capable of dealing with rogue marines.

Do you know what is the force of 6000+ marines is son? Not to mention other Templar chapters (overall it makes something like 9000+ marines ). Check HH if you have forgotten.

9000 marines is absolutely nothing compared to the Trillions of gaurdsmen that the Imperium has to spare. If the Black Templars were to rebel, they would be crushed quickly and easily.

Laodamia wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

1) They are crusader fleet with most of their ship being Space Marine battle barges or Emperor class battleships. So they are force to be reckon even for the Imperial Navy. And their favorite tactics in space is to teleport Terminators and sword brethren to enemy ships and stations and kill the enemy. And they don't have planets under their control, they recruit initiates as they help liberate the world or defend it.

The Inquisition can muster the force of every single ship in the Imperium if need be. As numerous as the Black Templar may be, they've got nothing on the Inquisition's firepower.

2) I already said that they have finest ships in their fleet + they just love to teleport to other ships and show you how they handle thunderhammer in close combat.

And it's not like the Inquisition doesn't have plenty of powerful individuals capable of dealing with rogue marines.

Do you know what is the force of 6000+ marines is son? Not to mention other Templar chapters (overall it makes something like 9000+ marines ). Check HH if you have forgotten.

9000 marines is absolutely nothing compared to the Trillions of gaurdsmen that the Imperium has to spare. If the Black Templars were to rebel, they would be crushed quickly and easily.

I see a leak in your post. While Inquisition is mustered all this forces to fight Black Templars... who is protecting planets and citizens of the Imperium from aliens, mutants and heretics?
I can already imagine: after 10 years the BT where finaly brought to justice and all are celebrating.

Guardsman: My Lord I have important news.
Inquisitor: What is it Guardsman? Are the High Lord sending praise to this glorious victory in the Emperor's name?
Guardsman: No my lord, while we mustered large number of Imperial Navy ships and Guard Regiments to defeat BT, we lost approximatively 1000 planets to Orks, Eldar, Tyranids and Tau, 50 more where fall to Chaos, and 10 Systems have declared succession from the Imperium.
Inquisitor slap his head and thinks: "This would never happened if I just let Chapter Master win at poker that time..."

You are right, they would fall eventually like the original Heresy, but what would be the cost of their heresy?

Brother Coa wrote:
I see a leak in your post. While Inquisition is mustered all this forces to fight Black Templars... who is protecting planets and citizens of the Imperium from aliens, mutants and heretics?
I can already imagine: after 10 years the BT where finaly brought to justice and all are celebrating.

The Inquisition wouldn't need to muster all of it's forces. Hell, it wouldn't even need to muster much of its forces at all. You're really overestimating the power of the Black Templars. They may be bigger than most chapters, but they're still absolutely nothing compared to the forces that the Inquisition has at their disposal. Sending a fleet capable of devestating the Templars' entire opposing fleet would be a miniscule effort.

Guardsman: My Lord I have important news.
Inquisitor: What is it Guardsman? Are the High Lord sending praise to this glorious victory in the Emperor's name?
Guardsman: No my lord, while we mustered large number of Imperial Navy ships and Guard Regiments to defeat BT, we lost approximatively 1000 planets to Orks, Eldar, Tyranids and Tau, 50 more where fall to Chaos, and 10 Systems have declared succession from the Imperium.
Inquisitor slap his head and thinks: "This would never happened if I just let Chapter Master win at poker that time..."

You are right, they would fall eventually like the original Heresy, but what would be the cost of their heresy?

It wouldn't cost very much at all. It's incredibly unlikely that squashing a single marine chapter, even one as large as the Templar, would cost the Imperium to lose that much. And even if it did, that's a miniscule figure for the imperium that is easily reclaimed.

What bug-crazy inquisitor would go off and declare a chapter Traitor or Heretic without a damn good reason? Not to mention proof enough to keep the High Lords from crucifying him in eternity for wasting resources on it? There's only so many inquisitors, and only a handful with the political power to actually get crazy. And only so many chapters would actually murder an inquisitor if the reason wasn't very good... I'm sure they do all they can to make it a very convincing accident or random pirate attack. Or they'll call out the inquisitor openly on grounds of honor, having a champion kill him in a duel. No one can complain about that.

Besides, we forget the size of the Imperium... Every inquisitor is more like an Age of Sails explorer than a modern-day instant-report digital spy. He'll need an Astropath to send a report any faster than he can travel, and those can be controlled by planetary governors and the like. If something happens to the poor little inquisitor before he can report it might be a hundred years before anyone even bothers to come look for him.

Sure they can murder an Inquisitor; but they had better check that he doesn't have influential friends in the Inquisition and that they don't know.

Thats the mistake House Glaw made in 'Xenos'. All it takes is a single Vox or Astropathic message; and then you will have the full weight of an Imperial Guard force.

Imperial Guard have absolutely no chance at wiggle room in this; even if there is such a thing. The Guard outnumber Space Marines vastly.

Not to mention proof enough to keep the High Lords from crucifying him in eternity for wasting resources on it?

High Lord have absolutely no authority on even the lowest ranked member of the Inquisition. The Inquisition is completely separate from the Imperium as a whole.

Something to consider on the power of the Inquistion

The Titan Legions (by Rick Priestley, excerpted from WD 178)
Thus the Forge Worlds and the Knight Worlds owe no obligations to the Adepts of Earth. They raise no regiments for the Imperial Guard and they pay no tithes to the treasury. They are not answerable to the Adeptus Terra but to the Adeptus Mechanicus. Only the Inquisition has jurisdiction in their territories, and there are no worlds in the Imperium where those warriors of righteousness may not walk freely.

If I recall, in the Witch Hunter's Codex, it talks about allied Space Marines. I need to look it up again, but it said that they must trade favors with the Space Marines for their help, not that they can simply order them to do their bidding.

It's mostly a formality issue. Space Marines can refuse to help an Inquisitor, but it tends to have very, very unfortunate implications for the marines involved.

Basically, the Inquisitor says 'please' and all is right with the world.

Pilau Rice wrote:Something to consider on the power of the Inquistion

The Titan Legions (by Rick Priestley, excerpted from WD 178)
Thus the Forge Worlds and the Knight Worlds owe no obligations to the Adepts of Earth. They raise no regiments for the Imperial Guard and they pay no tithes to the treasury. They are not answerable to the Adeptus Terra but to the Adeptus Mechanicus. Only the Inquisition has jurisdiction in their territories, and there are no worlds in the Imperium where those warriors of righteousness may not walk freely.

It feels like an Epic Win. Inquisitors would probably have enough power to crush anything they consider heretical. The BT wouldnt stand a chance as even a million guardsmen and perhaps elements of say 5 other SM chapters plus the full power of a segmentum fleet would easily crush any space faring fleet and thier land-lubbing counterparts. My point being, 9000+ marines is a great threat and would be able to destroy several systems and planets, hence the bigger the perceived threat, the more arms the IoM would bring to bear against them and the more power an inquisitor has.

Fafnir wrote:
It wouldn't cost very much at all. It's incredibly unlikely that squashing a single marine chapter, even one as large as the Templar, would cost the Imperium to lose that much. And even if it did, that's a miniscule figure for the imperium that is easily reclaimed.

Let's see, to bring down a chapter that is 9000+ marines strong and it has Space Fleets... And don't forget that Imperium's forces are already stretch to their limits. Imperium would lose that much, perhaps even more. Just remember Aurelia sector. Against the invasion of Orks, Tyranids and Eldar it was only defended by 200 Blood Ravens and 1 Regiment of the Imperial Guard. And they have barely won. And why do you think that BT are easy enemy? They have defeated everyone they waged war against.

And now to topic, Inquisitors have power, but they do not underestimate the power of the Astartes. I read in one book that 10 Space Marines where enough to hold down entire battle line against thousands of Orks. And they deeply respect them because of their 10.000 years of service. And that is why they ask them for assistance, of course they always answer to the call of the Inquisitor.

And do Ordo Hereticus check out other Inquisitors?