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Do GK have anything to answer the monolith?

The dreadknight doesn't work, he needs min. S8 to get a glance. No 2d6 on armor pen.

The vindicare is screwed too I think. I didn't read it carefully, so I could be wrong. He can shoot other things of course.

The psycannons can't hurt it.

The autocannon dreads can glance on 6. Whoopdi-doo.

I can't believe someone used cheesy and Necrons in the same paragragh. They are one of the weakest armies out there.

To answer the OP's question, no they are not. 2nd ed. Eldar were. That's most of the reason I didn't play the game. I saw huge power imbalances, much worse than now. I started in 3rd when (before codexes came out) most things were relatively equal.

Anavrin wrote:

dnanoodle wrote:It's every second dex because every second dex is an army of the Imperium. Xenos will never get a dex as OP as SW or even as good as they've had in previous editions.

I don't know about that. Tyranids didn't get any love for their last dex, but DE did really well for themselves. They sorta flew under the raidar (ha ha, get it?) as far as people freaking out and calling them OP goes, but they're a very powerful army.

To be honest I don't understand how that happened to the 'nid dex. I used to play nids and loved them. Now nothing in the codex makes sense. Especially the conspicuous lack of assault grenades.

Anyway I'm not saying that xenos codices are always fail or even that some aren't made competitive and even with variety. But the last three imperial codices are pretty much the top three armies at the moment. Maybe I've got a chip on my shoulder because I play against SWs and IG a lot but I really think those two books are grossly over-powered. My buddy does little more then walk run and shoot missiles, tactics be damned. It's the same against his IG but with Lascannons. It's nothing like how xenos have it. I figure that with PC/Console games like Space Marine and movies like Ultra Marines, however, there's some marketing strategies imbedded into these books too.

The GK codex is exciting to me because like the BA codex it's powerful but has a lot of weak points and requires units to seek good match ups in order to play effectively. I think they take a lot more work to play well than certain SW and IG builds.

Anavrin wrote:IG is the best army ever, the sky is falling!

OMG, SW are so OP, nothing will ever beat them!

WTF?! Mephiston is uber-cheese, BA will never lose a match!

etc, etc... Every second dex or so produces this response, after a month or two people will have played some games and figured out how to deal with it.

Except for SW, they really are cheese. Screw SW in their furry butts.

That's probably because every other army is Imperial (if not just more space marines).

Damn, ninja'd.

they appear to be the biggest band wagon army because the people who played Daemonhunters was ridiculously small due to their all metal models, and now that they've refined down just to grey knights and given them things like the dreadknight everyone's jumping on.

Whether they're overpowered or not, everyone's going to play them.

Grey Knights? No
Coteaz with henchmen? Maybe

Imo they don't look OP. I think they'll be fairly strong, but will probly struggle against AV14. They have alot of cool new gear and powers but no added survivability either. I know I will be cursing as Guard plates the crap out of me regularly anyway.

Stavkat wrote:Is there anyway to top this thead? Is it the best thread ever?

Also love this quote, it got me I admit it. At first I thought it was someone agreeing that GK are OP and that a thread about that should be stickied. I was vastly amused and a bit ashamed of my jumping to conclusions when I realized how it was really meant. I blame being exposed to ridiculous amounts of whining about GK going to be broken. As a DH player I'm looking forward to the update, even if I despise some of the new fluff. But I sincerely doubt they'll be OP. Low Model Count + Little to know extra survivability will hold GK's back from being OP certainly

bucheonman wrote:The dreadknight doesn't work, he needs min. S8 to get a glance. No 2d6 on armor pen.

The DKs have 2 DCCWs and as such (SHOULD, GW screwed up) strike at S10.

meh, honestly tell I read the codex myself or tell its officially released I don't trust anybody on the actual facts for the GK armies. Call me paranoid becuase I know people have read it.

anyways, I kinda think there taking the Grey knight part of deamonhunters a bit overboard, I always thought of Grey Knights as a small elite death star unit supporting a Inquisitor and his minions. But now they seem to turned it into another SM army.

Black Fiend wrote:Are Grey Knights the best 40k army ever? I don't remember any army ever so heavily ballyhooed and bandwagoned before. It is crazy.

Ask again in two or three months...

I don't feel very sorry for them. They have enough toys and don't need more.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

bucheonman wrote:The dreadknight doesn't work, he needs min. S8 to get a glance. No 2d6 on armor pen.

The DKs have 2 DCCWs and as such (SHOULD, GW screwed up) strike at S10.

bucheonman wrote:I don't feel very sorry for them. They have enough toys and don't need more.

Thats what I say to my girlfriend.

Mannahnin wrote:Is this a thread about Space Wolves?

Or has a year passed?

*Laugh*, very good.

I'm sure a Coteaz Henchmen/Riflemen build will be pretty competitive...or another Razorspam. Is it me, or does anyone else find the competitive builds yawntastic. Razors..Chimeras....Dreads...bleh.

The only thing I object to about them is that they've taken my favourite army, the characterful Daemonhunters, and turned them into Codex: Shiny Marines.

So I've now retired my army to the display cabinet to gather dust and remember what once was.

I'm now pinning my hopes on Tau! Hah...

I didn't even read this thread. Just by going off the topic...

No.

I thought 3rd edition Rhino rushing Black Templars were the best army ever....

I'm worrried about how vanilla marines will fare against the new GK. Is there anything that the SM have that will make a difference against them? it seems to me that GK have similar units to SM but better. How will SM combat dreadknights for example?

Havent seen the full rules for GK's other than what ive picked up on here, but how does a vindi's turbo round stop a lith?
Wouldnt extra D6's be removed due to LM?

Other than that, about all they can really hit it with is glances from auto's, but even then, you cant glance a lith to death.

Dashofpepper wrote:I play a Wraith Wing Necron list; my warriors are minimal and only there because they have to be.

If the only answer to Monoliths are terminators and a vindicare assassin, I'm not worried. I don't see GK terminators making competitive builds, and my Deceiver babysits my Monoliths; I don't think they'd dare come close anyway. The vindicare is a bit more annoying. But that's what wraith assaults, deep-striking monoliths, and teleportation is for.

I'm looking forward to playing some GK armies.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Havent seen the full rules for GK's other than what ive picked up on here, but how does a vindi's turbo round stop a lith?
Wouldnt extra D6's be removed due to LM?

Other than that, about all they can really hit it with is glances from auto's, but even then, you cant glance a lith to death.

My 2 cents

Turbo penetrator is 4D6 armor pen.

Monolith LM specifically states nothing gets extra dice to penetrate.

Unless the Turbo penetrator specifically says that abilities like LM that deny extra dice to penetration are cancelled a vindicare is only going to be rolling 1D6+0 for penetration.

If the title of your thread in the tactics forum can be answered with a simple, 'No', it does not need to have been posted.

schadenfreude: Thats what i was thinking.
In which case, i will either ignore him or throw a unit of scarabs at him.


Dash: Why use a deciever to guard it?
Not questioning your play style, just dont usually see him on the table.
Also wondering why you would pick that c'tan over night.

I dont usually run any c'tan, simply for its points.

Grey Knights? Best army ever?...hardly.

Try Eldar in the 2nd edition of 40k. While the models may have looked bad, what the rules said you could do with them was quite impressive. Nothing since then even comes close to the power level of 2nd ed Eldar.

RAW, the Turbo-penetrator round gets 4D6, not +3 extra D6, so it'd get its full complement of dice against a Monolith.

I would also say you can take off the invun of the c'tan from the assassin

Honestly I think space wolves and BA had a much larger bandwagon jumping population and remain today still at the top, stronger than GKs in the tournament scene. IG similarly remains in the top tier, unconcerned about grey knight upstarts. GKs have light/medium armor that's good at killing light/medium armor, but so does IG. They can almost get 2 hydras for the price of one psyrifleman dread.

Also, GKs can hurt a monolith with hammer hand daemonhammers, which strike at strength 10.

The shield breaker only negates invulnerable saves due to wargear so the C'Tan is unaffected. Vindicare does not get to roll any additional dice to penetrate the lith.

I think another thing to contemplate is that it's cheaper to make a GK army than most armies, since it has a low model count. That will appeal to a lot of people with tight budgets or just want to have another army, and they want it fast.

My guess is that the more tactically thoughtful armies (like Dark Eldar) are going to beat the crap out of them in the hands of a good player. What is it with all of these dumb, predictable, slow SM armies these days?

starsdawn wrote:I think another thing to contemplate is that it's cheaper to make a GK army than most armies, since it has a low model count. That will appeal to a lot of people with tight budgets or just want to have another army, and they want it fast.

But GK marines are pretty damn expensive per marine. So if you go mostly power armored troops, it adds up quickly. Unlike say, Space Wolves, who have a low cost 10 man box.

Stavkat wrote:

starsdawn wrote:I think another thing to contemplate is that it's cheaper to make a GK army than most armies, since it has a low model count. That will appeal to a lot of people with tight budgets or just want to have another army, and they want it fast.

But GK marines are pretty damn expensive per marine. So if you go mostly power armored troops, it adds up quickly. Unlike say, Space Wolves, who have a low cost 10 man box.

Buy a Tac squad box, mix it with the Grey Knight box? You can have three different squads using the arms only. That is, if you don't mind mixing them up with Tacs.

crazypsyko666 wrote:My guess is that the more tactically thoughtful armies (like Dark Eldar) are going to beat the crap out of them in the hands of a good player. What is it with all of these dumb, predictable, slow SM armies these days?

Except the Grey Knight Codex seems to be shaping up to be the complete opposite of slow, dumb and predictable. It has tons of options, is by no means slow, and you can't just take two or three awesome units, point them at your enemy and eat their face. I'm looking at you Space Wolves...