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Combat Squad the purifiers with 4 psycannons in one squad and the halberds in the other. Much smarter than keeping the psycannons in an assault unit.

Or did you say that?

Jaon wrote:Combat Squad the purifiers with 4 psycannons in one squad and the halberds in the other. Much smarter than keeping the psycannons in an assault unit.

Or did you say that?

While that is one strategy you could use with purifiers, I am against it. Why?

1) You're putting all your eggs in 1 basket. With 4 psycannons in 1 combat squad, the enemy is just going to concentrate on that unit to wipe them out.

2) Distributed threat. Make both units a threat (i.e. 2 psycannons each) and force your opponent into making difficult choices. You overload 1 squad and it's really an easy decision for your opponent regarding what he should do.

3) If you're playing mech, only 2 of the psycannons can be used if in a rhino.

Are you planning on playing Grey Knights? May seem like a dumb question but you seem to have the theory hammer down to a tee.

Actually, I use to play the older Daemonhunters so have a lot of experience with grey knight tactics. The new Grey Knights, while different with lots of new bells and whistles, still play like the older Grey Knights at its core (at least when you're talking about the pure Grey Knights army). They are still a mid-range shooting, reactive army. While they are much improved in assault (but not against all armies), shooting is their core strength and I don't see that that has changed too much.

Yeah, I'm planning on playing the new Grey Knights.

Jy2, Purifiers are assault units, not ranged. Their 2 attacks and cleansing flame go to waste if they are sitting back shooting psycannons.

If they ARENT sitting back shooting psycannons, they are moving, meaning psycannons are shooting at half the rate of fire, and sometimes will be in combat, wasting the psycannon. Put the 4x psycannons in cover, or move them up the rear (or in transports like chimeras) and you will be on the right track.

Not to say your logic is flawed, it makes perfect sense, but you are lessening your effect by doing so.

I would still take 2 psycannons.


it gives you the option of killing tanks at range, possably popping a transport and then assaulting the contents.

it also gives you an extra edge over a MC on the way in. thats a couple less wounds you have to cause to kill it.

Regarding the Necron Monoliths argument, why not use those psycannons to force phaseout? They seem much more attuned towards that kind of destruction.

yes, just ignore the monoliths.

3 monoliths means he is probably 20 Crons away from phase out. get into CC with all those power weapons.

crazypsyko666 wrote:Regarding the Necron Monoliths argument, why not use those psycannons to force phaseout? They seem much more attuned towards that kind of destruction.

Because well placed Tri-Monolith makes it 100% impossible to see the guys behind. So outside of astral aim on purgation squads (which I expect will rarely be taken), you just can't shoot them.

Now, Str 10 daemonhammers on the other hand..

@hulksmash

I was excited to do foot as well, but I can't see it working now that interceptors aren't scoring. You just don't have the ability to grab long ranging objectives. YMMV, but I see it having serious issues with the typical nova-style 5 objective missions.

Jaon wrote:Jy2, Purifiers are assault units, not ranged. Their 2 attacks and cleansing flame go to waste if they are sitting back shooting psycannons.

If they ARENT sitting back shooting psycannons, they are moving, meaning psycannons are shooting at half the rate of fire, and sometimes will be in combat, wasting the psycannon. Put the 4x psycannons in cover, or move them up the rear (or in transports like chimeras) and you will be on the right track.

Not to say your logic is flawed, it makes perfect sense, but you are lessening your effect by doing so.

Actually, have you ever heard of the term "water" army? Basically, that is a philosophy to describe the Grey Knights. They are neither an assault army nor a shooty one. Instead, they are a reactive army. That is one of the reasons why their range is limited (mainly 24" for most guns) and why their psycannons are both heavy and assault weapons. Play against a "fire" army, or an assaulty army, and they stay back and shoot. Against an "earth" army, or gunline/shooty army, they advance. They are neither a great assault army nor a great shooty army (though rifleman dreads may have changed that), but they are good in both and have the flexibility to do either....without having to reconstruct their entire army list.

Anyways, you can play purifiers as an assault unit. They definitely are very good in assault with 2 attacks base and Cleansing Flame. You can also play them as a shooty unit with 4 psycannons. Their main strength is their tactical flexibility. But to classify them as purely an assault unit is folly. There are many units that can and will beat them in assault. Shooty armies will just shoot down their rhino and force them to foot-slog. However, split them up into 2 equal units and it becomes much harder for the enemy to deal with.

When you split them into 2 equal squads, you don't necessarily have to be moving. If you have to, you will....and you can still fire 2 shots per psycannon, which is better than other MEQ armies who won't be able to fire their heavy weapons. If not, then you can sit there and still fire 4 shots per. Whichever you choose, you have much more flexibility than when you park 4 psycannons in cover and your opponent reacts to you by staying out of their 24" threat range.

I'm not saying you should never combat squad them into a 4 psycannon squad and an assault squad. There are times when that strategy is good, depending on what type of army you are playing against and the mission-type. However, splitting them into 2 equal squads is more useful in most cases IMO and fits their play-style better.

Grey Templar wrote:I would still take 2 psycannons.


it gives you the option of killing tanks at range, possably popping a transport and then assaulting the contents.

it also gives you an extra edge over a MC on the way in. thats a couple less wounds you have to cause to kill it.

A couple less wounds you have to instant death off it?

Haha, in all seriousness, you make a good point. Ill take it into consideration.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jy2 wrote:

Jaon wrote:Jy2, Purifiers are assault units, not ranged. Their 2 attacks and cleansing flame go to waste if they are sitting back shooting psycannons.

If they ARENT sitting back shooting psycannons, they are moving, meaning psycannons are shooting at half the rate of fire, and sometimes will be in combat, wasting the psycannon. Put the 4x psycannons in cover, or move them up the rear (or in transports like chimeras) and you will be on the right track.

Not to say your logic is flawed, it makes perfect sense, but you are lessening your effect by doing so.

Actually, have you ever heard of the term "water" army? Basically, that is a philosophy to describe the Grey Knights. They are neither an assault army nor a shooty one. Instead, they are a reactive army. That is one of the reasons why their range is limited (mainly 24" for most guns) and why their psycannons are both heavy and assault weapons. Play against a "fire" army, or an assaulty army, and they stay back and shoot. Against an "earth" army, or gunline/shooty army, they advance. They are neither a great assault army nor a great shooty army (though rifleman dreads may have changed that), but they are good in both and have the flexibility to do either....without having to reconstruct their entire army list.

Anyways, you can play purifiers as an assault unit. They definitely are very good in assault with 2 attacks base and Cleansing Flame. You can also play them as a shooty unit with 4 psycannons. Their main strength is their tactical flexibility. But to classify them as purely an assault unit is folly. There are many units that can and will beat them in assault. Shooty armies will just shoot down their rhino and force them to foot-slog. However, split them up into 2 equal units and it becomes much harder for the enemy to deal with.

When you split them into 2 equal squads, you don't necessarily have to be moving. If you have to, you will....and you can still fire 2 shots per psycannon, which is better than other MEQ armies who won't be able to fire their heavy weapons. If not, then you can sit there and still fire 4 shots per. Whichever you choose, you have much more flexibility than when you park 4 psycannons in cover and your opponent reacts to you by staying out of their 24" threat range.

I'm not saying you should never combat squad them into a 4 psycannon squad and an assault squad. There are times when that strategy is good, depending on what type of army you are playing against and the mission-type. However, splitting them into 2 equal squads is more useful in most cases IMO and fits their play-style better.

Once again, some great points. I think I am putting personal experiences into general tactics a bit to much. At my FLGS, I generally play against fire armies (I am aware of the elemental tactics [forgotten what you call them though ] ) who generally rush large hordes of gribblies in big spaced bunches towards you. Spacing matters not when im firing storm bolters, but generally I have found castling in cover and making the most of shooting before getting bogged down in melee is a good choice. There are obviously other tactics available, but I am an Ex-Guard player, I have never played GK before, but I am willing to adapt.

More or less, all this is new to me. One thing I am familiar with is the sacrifice of a small portion of your army for the benefit of the rest. If a horde is charging, I will move a single squad out to receive the charge, then when they die, I fire/counter charge with the already positioned units of the rest of my army. This is obviously specifically versus hordes, which is what I play against. As such, 4x psycannon suits me for this situation than 2x in each squad.

Grey Templar wrote:yes, just ignore the monoliths.

3 monoliths means he is probably 20 Crons away from phase out. get into CC with all those power weapons.

I'd actually put my money on my necrons. =p I have 32 Necron Models, my phase out number is 8. *Ignore the Monoliths* is fun advice until you can't ignore them because they're between you and what you want to get at. And what you want to get at happens to have 3++ invulnerable saves and happy to charge into you.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:yes, just ignore the monoliths.

3 monoliths means he is probably 20 Crons away from phase out. get into CC with all those power weapons.

I'd actually put my money on my necrons. =p I have 32 Necron Models, my phase out number is 8. *Ignore the Monoliths* is fun advice until you can't ignore them because they're between you and what you want to get at. And what you want to get at happens to have 3++ invulnerable saves and happy to charge into you.

yeah, well, it's annoying, but i have the same save as it does so it's a wash.

and i can take a Deamon Hammer for those monoliths so i am not super worried.


of course, i would expect a tough game from Dash no matter what he played

If all the hype is to believed, I apparently need to switch to digital weapon poop-flinging space monkeys - that way I can put them on the table with the feral puppies and start an Astral Zoo.

You don't want more then 3 or 4 if you want them for the squad upgrades.

5+ means they give you nothing.

targetawg wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:Regarding the Necron Monoliths argument, why not use those psycannons to force phaseout? They seem much more attuned towards that kind of destruction.

Because well placed Tri-Monolith makes it 100% impossible to see the guys behind. So outside of astral aim on purgation squads (which I expect will rarely be taken), you just can't shoot them.

Now, Str 10 daemonhammers on the other hand..

@hulksmash

I was excited to do foot as well, but I can't see it working now that interceptors aren't scoring. You just don't have the ability to grab long ranging objectives. YMMV, but I see it having serious issues with the typical nova-style 5 objective missions.

30" shunt. I actually have no idea what you're talking about.

EDIT: (sarcasm about the 'no idea') Is the shunt confirmed? I haven't seen an official book yet.
Speaking of official numbers, where can I get a rundown on what our army's weapons/unit stats look like?

crazypsyko666 wrote:

targetawg wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:Regarding the Necron Monoliths argument, why not use those psycannons to force phaseout? They seem much more attuned towards that kind of destruction.

Because well placed Tri-Monolith makes it 100% impossible to see the guys behind. So outside of astral aim on purgation squads (which I expect will rarely be taken), you just can't shoot them.

Now, Str 10 daemonhammers on the other hand..

@hulksmash

I was excited to do foot as well, but I can't see it working now that interceptors aren't scoring. You just don't have the ability to grab long ranging objectives. YMMV, but I see it having serious issues with the typical nova-style 5 objective missions.

30" shunt. I actually have no idea what you're talking about.

EDIT: (sarcasm about the 'no idea') Is the shunt confirmed? I haven't seen an official book yet.
Speaking of official numbers, where can I get a rundown on what our army's weapons/unit stats look like?

Good luck shunting a squad behind the tri-monoliths which are hiding the guys, there won't be room to place a quad or dreadknight base.

Theres a photographed copy of the real book floating around the web if you can find it. Linking to it/etc. is a no no .

I already pre-ordered mine, so I didn't get a moral twinge.

crazypsyko666 wrote:

targetawg wrote:

crazypsyko666 wrote:Regarding the Necron Monoliths argument, why not use those psycannons to force phaseout? They seem much more attuned towards that kind of destruction.

Because well placed Tri-Monolith makes it 100% impossible to see the guys behind. So outside of astral aim on purgation squads (which I expect will rarely be taken), you just can't shoot them.

Now, Str 10 daemonhammers on the other hand..

@hulksmash

I was excited to do foot as well, but I can't see it working now that interceptors aren't scoring. You just don't have the ability to grab long ranging objectives. YMMV, but I see it having serious issues with the typical nova-style 5 objective missions.

30" shunt. I actually have no idea what you're talking about.

EDIT: (sarcasm about the 'no idea') Is the shunt confirmed? I haven't seen an official book yet.
Speaking of official numbers, where can I get a rundown on what our army's weapons/unit stats look like?

Models with Personal teliporters move like jump infantry. they can also, once per game, redeploy up to 30" from their current position exactly like they deep striked. they don't scatter IIRC, but can't move or assault. they can shoot though.

@Targetawg

I think an all foot army can work. I'm just currently messing with it. I think the key thing is to be moving the entire game. Maybe keep 1-2 units in reserves to deepstrike or take some interceptors. If you take a GM you can make your Dreads scoring while your 50 PAGK advance on the foe!!!! w/a 3+ cover save thanks to our friend the librarian.

Hulksmash wrote:@Targetawg

I think an all foot army can work. I'm just currently messing with it. I think the key thing is to be moving the entire game. Maybe keep 1-2 units in reserves to deepstrike or take some interceptors. If you take a GM you can make your Dreads scoring while your 50 PAGK advance on the foe!!!! w/a 3+ cover save thanks to our friend the librarian.

What unit is acting as the screen for your Grey Knights to provide the cover save? Are you doing coteaz + cheapo henchmen, or just letting the front GK units take a beating for the ones behind. Another idea I'd had was just to have razorbacks with the psybolt upgrade, 50 points, cheap and easy, and they can just drive in front to provide cover. You could still deploy on foot to maximize your use of the stormbolters as well. They also give you the option to hop in in objective/dawn of war missions.

My other worry for this is...Dawn of War, walking on will be a tad slow. But man.. I want interceptors to work so bad, they remind me in every way of one of my favorite Eldar units: warp spiders.

It'll depend on the terrain Targetawg but to be honest I don't have a problem getting my front line gaunts a cover save now so I don't anticipate it being an issue for GK's. I'm also tempted by interceptors for the same reason as you, I love Warp Spiders!

You can go the Razorback route but I'm really trying to avoid that w/my GK's since I've already got a 7 Razorback SW army

Cover saves for infantry are stupid easy to get. It's incredibly like insanely rare that any of my demon units don't get cover, aside from the turn they come in. And, even then most get cover.

If I ran foot grey knights this is what I'd do. I'm still trying to figure out if I like it in dawn of war and stuff.

HQ
Crowe 150

Troops
10 Purifiers- 4 psy cannons 5 halberds 1 demon hammer 295
10 Purifiers- 4 psy cannons 5 halberds 1 demon hammer 295
10 Purifiers- 4 psy cannons 5 halberds 1 demon hammer 295
10 Purifiers- 4 psy cannons 5 halberds 1 demon hammer 295

Heavy
5 Purgators- 4 Psycannons 180
5 Purgators- 4 Psycannons 180
5 Purgators- 3 Psycannons 160

1850

While purifiers are great and all that, I feel that every GK army needs at least 2 strike squads, even if they were only 5-man units in rhinos, for their deepstriking defense. Insignificant enough to ignore when there are purifiers, purgations or psyfleman dreads around, these guys generally survive against DS armies to be a big thorn in their sides. And even against non-DS armies, GK strike squads can still contribute to the GK army with their shooting and assault capabilities.

Just as anti-psyker defense is mandatory nowadays in a balanced, all-comers list (for those who have it), anti-deepstriking defense is almost just as necessary. Luckily for the Grey Knights, they have something that very few other armies have....defense against deepstrikers.

@Yermom

I think the Librarian is simply to good to pass up in a foot list. I like that it's all foot but I'm pretty sure even my foot list will have Dreads. To good to pass up for the cost.

i could see them being useful in a mech list.

stick 2 5 man squads in Rhinos(possabily with 2 psycannons each) and you can cover pretty much your whole army.

Grey Templar wrote:i could see them being useful in a mech list.

stick 2 5 man squads in Rhinos(possabily with 2 psycannons each) and you can cover pretty much your whole army.

If you're talking about strike squads, it'll be 1 psycannon per 5-man squad.

But if you are talking about purifiers, then you are absolutely correct.

Dashofpepper wrote:The more junk I see like this being posted as competitive GK, the more I *really* want to starting bringing my Necrons to tournaments.

Nothing in your army that you can hurt my triple monoliths? Sweet.

offensive comment removed. Don't make comments like this on Dakka.

I believe that Librarians will be a major staple, perhaps even so much so as to be worth including 2.

Everyone is in agreement that The Shrouding is amazing and can be used to provide advantages that leave even Shield of Sang. and Storm Caller a bit jealous, but the other abilities are great as well.

Of all the abilities though, Warp Rift seems the best (next to the almighty shrouding of course) An auto-pen on a vehicle plus a flame-templated JotWW make this ability seem amazing. Admittedly, this ability is only useful close up, but I still believe that it's worth it, and could be game-changing... even against pesky 'liths

Dashofpepper wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:yes, just ignore the monoliths.

3 monoliths means he is probably 20 Crons away from phase out. get into CC with all those power weapons.

I'd actually put my money on my necrons. =p I have 32 Necron Models, my phase out number is 8. *Ignore the Monoliths* is fun advice until you can't ignore them because they're between you and what you want to get at. And what you want to get at happens to have 3++ invulnerable saves and happy to charge into you.

Unless my rules-fu is weak, str10 daemon hammers by way of hammerhead and powerfist rules; Would smash monoliths to itty bitty bits. As str10 close-combat attacks are by-far the best way to kill a monolith.

Razerous wrote:Unless my rules-fu is weak, str10 daemon hammers by way of hammerhead and powerfist rules; Would smash monoliths to itty bitty bits. As str10 close-combat attacks are by-far the best way to kill a monolith.

Yeah....just need to watch out for their large blast AP3 retaliation if you don't kill/immobilise it.