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Kanluwen wrote:

blackclaw1 wrote:It is ridiculous some of the best model's in gw's range are being made harder to reach for the people that want them the most , another example of gw screwing over there customer base.

It's really not though. It's not as though GW is cackling in their office saying "How can we not let Blackclaw1 buy our models?".

It's supposedly done with the stockists in mind. It's easier for a shop to order things as they have customers want them, rather than having to constantly stock something that never sells.

fair point

The thing about this thread and pretty much all the comments in reply to it is that nobody has seemed to take the sheer size of the GW range into account!

Shelf space in stores is at a premium, the GW range of models is absolutely massive so it just doesn't make any sense neither is it always possible to stock everything that GW produces. The GW catalogue alone is big enough, then take into account Black Library, Paints, Hobby Supplies, Scenery and then space for gaming tables, Display Cases, Paint Stations, order points and a cash register and that's a hell of a lot off stuff to try and fit into even a decent sized store.

There's no point in using up valuable shelf space stocking something which just sits around gathering dust in the hope that someone will randomly want to buy it one day. Before anyone says it, I'm aware that blisters don't take up much space, but when you think of the sheer amount of blisters available that space is soon filled up. GW look at their best selling lines and stock their stores accordingly, unfortunately this could mean that a product you want isn't there when you want it which is precisely what the instore order point is for. I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but in the UK at least, anything which is still being made as part of the GW range (including Specialist Games) can be ordered, paid for in store (so cash is no problem) and shipped out to your local store free of charge. Or if it's over £10 then to your home/work address free of charge too.

So whilst it might be a tad annoying for 1 person when they want to pick up particular model on a certain day, imagine what it would do to the business if they could only stock 2 each of everything at any time because of lack of space. I wouldn't think there would be many happy customers come next Saturday when the Grey Knights go on sale for example. Things would constantly be out of stock.

At the end of the day, Games Workshop is a business. And while I believe they do their best to provide us with a fantastic hobby as a whole, whether it be through models, supplies books or even advice. Ultimately they need to turn a profit and maximise said profit by utilising every resource available to them, and shelf space happens to be a way of doing this. If we want GW to carry on providing us with the hobby, then we've got to accept the decisions they make for the benefit of the company even if we find it slightly annoying that we have to wait a few extra days in order to receive our Sqigs.

Kanluwen wrote:

blackclaw1 wrote:It is ridiculous some of the best model's in gw's range are being made harder to reach for the people that want them the most , another example of gw screwing over there customer base.

It's really not though. It's not as though GW is cackling in their office saying "How can we not let Blackclaw1 buy our models?".

It's supposedly done with the stockists in mind. It's easier for a shop to order things as they have customers want them, rather than having to constantly stock something that never sells.

Supposedly being the opperative term indeed, because it's utter bollocks on their part and it really riles me up. I mean, you can even get the Imperial Guard Commissars in anymore. I'm the GW stockist in my ILR and i serve a lot of Guard players who just can't get what they want...

You can or can't? There's a pretty big difference there.

I can't speak for GW's policies in the UK...

But of course the Imperial Guard Commissars have been moved to being a 'direct only' deal. Players are only going to have so many of them in their force; and they've been out for awhile.

The Decapitator wrote:The thing about this thread and pretty much all the comments in reply to it is that nobody has seemed to take the sheer size of the GW range into account!

Shelf space in stores is at a premium, the GW range of models is absolutely massive so it just doesn't make any sense neither is it always possible to stock everything that GW produces. The GW catalogue alone is big enough, then take into account Black Library, Paints, Hobby Supplies, Scenery and then space for gaming tables, Display Cases, Paint Stations, order points and a cash register and that's a hell of a lot off stuff to try and fit into even a decent sized store.

There's no point in using up valuable shelf space stocking something which just sits around gathering dust in the hope that someone will randomly want to buy it one day. Before anyone says it, I'm aware that blisters don't take up much space, but when you think of the sheer amount of blisters available that space is soon filled up. GW look at their best selling lines and stock their stores accordingly, unfortunately this could mean that a product you want isn't there when you want it which is precisely what the instore order point is for. I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but in the UK at least, anything which is still being made as part of the GW range (including Specialist Games) can be ordered, paid for in store (so cash is no problem) and shipped out to your local store free of charge. Or if it's over £10 then to your home/work address free of charge too.

So whilst it might be a tad annoying for 1 person when they want to pick up particular model on a certain day, imagine what it would do to the business if they could only stock 2 each of everything at any time because of lack of space. I wouldn't think there would be many happy customers come next Saturday when the Grey Knights go on sale for example. Things would constantly be out of stock.

At the end of the day, Games Workshop is a business. And while I believe they do their best to provide us with a fantastic hobby as a whole, whether it be through models, supplies books or even advice. Ultimately they need to turn a profit and maximise said profit by utilising every resource available to them, and shelf space happens to be a way of doing this. If we want GW to carry on providing us with the hobby, then we've got to accept the decisions they make for the benefit of the company even if we find it slightly annoying that we have to wait a few extra days in order to receive our Sqigs.

See I totally accept everything you said.

My gripe comes, why do they block independants from stocking it here in the UK? I admit their own stores, a shrewd move, probably the only option they have, but why limit sales for others. Especially stores like Malestrom who could happily stock everything as a B&M/Online store.

To that question, the only possible reason is, because you want to stop them selling it at discount, and force people to pay full price from you. That I have a serious issue with, especially with their rising costs year on year.

Because it sure isn't due to not having them in blisters or boxes, I've ordered Direct only in the past few months, and had them arrive in blisters and boxes as normal.

I honestly couldn't tell you why that's the case, but I'm not sure the discount aspect of it is not totally right.

GW makes good money from their trade customers, in fact I'm pretty sure the amount they make from Trade customers selling their product is in line with what they make from their own stores purely for the fact that they don't have to account for any overheads whatsoever. The GW sales rep is the only person that GW pays out of it's own cash in dealing with Trade customers. Then anything sold by the Trade customers, even with discount, is pretty much profit as they don't have to pay the staff, shop rent and other associated costs which do have to be factored into the cost of running their own stores.

I do recall speaking with a sales rep for GW a while back and I seem to remember him explaining that a lot of the product sold through 3rd party stores is done on a sale or return basis. So they have to manage/monitor exactly what stock is being put into these stores as they have had past issues with trade stockists who happened to be hobbyists themselves ordering obscure items which would never normally sell. Then a year down the line after moving onto different projects returning old stock which was potentially no good for anyone as GW then end up with a surplus.

So of GW does operate a sale or return policy to help the traders, then I'd understand why they wouldn't want to flood those guys with everything from the range, even if they requested it, knowing that the majority of it will end up coming back to them and losing money on it as it's been replaced/updated etc.

Like I say, I'm not 100% sure why exactly those problems exist with Trade orders. However, I really wouldn't just assume that it's as clear cut as cutting down on the amount of discount the trade gets as the difference in potential profit for GW in selling through a trade account and their own stores is minimal for the reasons I gave earlier.

The Tau Broadside also went mail order only recently. And that's not a rare special character.

No but it could possibly have something to do with a new Tau Codex and new Broadside model/s and GW's running the stock down......but that's just WILD speculation

I wonder how long it'll be before this is quoted as news

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Yeah, that I agree with, I think we suffer for the sheer saturation GW has here in the UK.

On a side note, I do wonder if its some sort of attempt to shore up GW Aus as well, as GW must be aware of the AuS GW fans purchases from discounters such as Maelstrom with the free shipping.

As a matter of fact, this does not make me more willing to buy at counter from a GW store (though I do go a GW on a regular basis). In fact on Wednesday, I was down at the GW looking for a Librarian in Terminator armour and was happy to purchase (I habitually throw $20 into the store every month for a spraycan or a single figure simply because I want to support my store) however I was disappointed to find out it was not on the shelves and was informed it had gone to Direct Only.

Here's my issue: I want the model on the day, in hand so I can assemble it ASAP, and i'm happy to pay a premium for that (in GWAUS it's usually double GWUK RRP). However, if I bought it via store order, I'd have to wait 2 weeks. This is the same amount of time it'd take to put in an order from oversees (Maelstrom or Wayland) and avoid that premium. Doing this, only makes it harder for GWAUS to extract money from me because it no longer has the edge of being able to put the blister in my hand on the day.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:I think the Lizardmen army sums up how much stuff is going to Direct only atm.

http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=cat&cre=min-wfb-liz

Can't even get a non Skink Hero, unless you want to go via GW.

Now seeing the amount of Direct Only for Lizardmen, I am astounded. It happens to be one of the most popular WHFB armies at my FLGS

Please don't call it a "FLGS". GW's cannot be FLGSs...

The Decapitator wrote:The thing about this thread and pretty much all the comments in reply to it is that nobody has seemed to take the sheer size of the GW range into account!

Shelf space in stores is at a premium, the GW range of models is absolutely massive so it just doesn't make any sense neither is it always possible to stock everything that GW produces. The GW catalogue alone is big enough, then take into account Black Library, Paints, Hobby Supplies, Scenery and then space for gaming tables, Display Cases, Paint Stations, order points and a cash register and that's a hell of a lot off stuff to try and fit into even a decent sized store.

There's no point in using up valuable shelf space stocking something which just sits around gathering dust in the hope that someone will randomly want to buy it one day. Before anyone says it, I'm aware that blisters don't take up much space, but when you think of the sheer amount of blisters available that space is soon filled up. GW look at their best selling lines and stock their stores accordingly, unfortunately this could mean that a product you want isn't there when you want it which is precisely what the instore order point is for. I'm not sure about the rest of the world, but in the UK at least, anything which is still being made as part of the GW range (including Specialist Games) can be ordered, paid for in store (so cash is no problem) and shipped out to your local store free of charge. Or if it's over £10 then to your home/work address free of charge too.

So whilst it might be a tad annoying for 1 person when they want to pick up particular model on a certain day, imagine what it would do to the business if they could only stock 2 each of everything at any time because of lack of space. I wouldn't think there would be many happy customers come next Saturday when the Grey Knights go on sale for example. Things would constantly be out of stock.

At the end of the day, Games Workshop is a business. And while I believe they do their best to provide us with a fantastic hobby as a whole, whether it be through models, supplies books or even advice. Ultimately they need to turn a profit and maximise said profit by utilising every resource available to them, and shelf space happens to be a way of doing this. If we want GW to carry on providing us with the hobby, then we've got to accept the decisions they make for the benefit of the company even if we find it slightly annoying that we have to wait a few extra days in order to receive our Sqigs.

Although games workshop has a large range of models, their blisters could easily be stocked in their current stores. They usually store them one per peg, which is terribly inefficient. This results in them having one blister on a peg that could hold five or more. Thus I do not buy into your 'valuable' shelf space argument. GW obviously has other reasons for reducing its stock. Although I do not know their reasons, I am of the opinion that the decision to limit the range in their stores is seriously flawed. If you don't carry your own product why would you expect someone else to carry it? I think that they will find that customers will not be willing to pay retail price for items that they mail order. The brick and mortar store is not serving a useful function in the sale when the customer could just as easily order the items from his smart phone.

If we were talking about bread or some sort of perishable good then you could probably make a good case for why GW wouldn't want to stock anything above and beyond what they know sells. But we aren't - we are talking metal and plastic figures. There is an argument for limited shelf space and that's fine but that doesn't necessarily mean that every product has to be displayed at any one time. Just because it can't be displayed doesn't mean it can't be kept in stock. I am firmly of the opinion that this is a deliberate ploy by management to try and cut out discounters.

It was only yesterday that I realised to myself how demanding standards have got, I ordered myself some scenery accessories the day before and was almost dissapointed it wasnt there the next day.
As customers its natural for us to 'WANT' something there and then, but really how much is it to ask that we wait maybe a couple of days for something? my local store is more than willing to take a list of models and make sure they come in the next delivery (a friday in my case)
Sure theres all the politics and rumour mongering we could do, but we still can buy the models in some shape or form

thats my 2p anyway

Dan

D.Smith wrote:It was only yesterday that I realised to myself how demanding standards have got, I ordered myself some scenery accessories the day before and was almost dissapointed it wasnt there the next day.
As customers its natural for us to 'WANT' something there and then, but really how much is it to ask that we wait maybe a couple of days for something? my local store is more than willing to take a list of models and make sure they come in the next delivery (a friday in my case)
Sure theres all the politics and rumour mongering we could do, but we still can buy the models in some shape or form

thats my 2p anyway

Dan

Its not a question of having to wait for the models and more a question of not being afforded the same discount that other GW products get, hence the feelings that it is being driven by political machinations given GW's fairly poor view of discount sellers.

D.Smith wrote:It was only yesterday that I realised to myself how demanding standards have got, I ordered myself some scenery accessories the day before and was almost dissapointed it wasnt there the next day.
As customers its natural for us to 'WANT' something there and then, but really how much is it to ask that we wait maybe a couple of days for something? my local store is more than willing to take a list of models and make sure they come in the next delivery (a friday in my case)
Sure theres all the politics and rumour mongering we could do, but we still can buy the models in some shape or form

thats my 2p anyway

Dan

That to be fair has never been in doubt.

The problem is, more and more items are being removed. As I said in another thread, this came to light for me last year as I spent most of it umming and arring over a new 40K army.
It was Eldar or Imperial Guard, I looked at Maelstrom in Jan-feb time 2010, then in the summer, the winter and finally when I made the order in Jan 2011 I had seen many items come off both lines.

Part of the reason I got Eldar is so much of metal went for the Guard. So as boring as it sounds, I got an interest and started watching all of the armies. What has come off Maelstrom in the last year or so, is to be frank, bloody frightening.
Hell barely three months ago I got The Farseer and Warlocks box, two boxes of Banshees, Rangers and a Harlequins box from Maelstrom along with some Battleforces and stuff.

All of the boxes I've mentioned up to the Battleforces are now gone from Maelstrom. The fareseer box, Banshees, Rangers and Harliquins, all not available unless you want to pay full price from GW direct.
That worries the hell out of me to be frank, as we know there isn't any Eldar figs due anytime soon. They've not been removed to be replaced, they have just been taken off so GW can force us to pay them.


edit - It seems me and filbert are on the same path. (aka ninja'd )

2nd edit - really need to stop using the enter key to start a new line, its making everything look double spaced, even if it didn't when I pressed the post button.

News Flash: This happened years ago.

GW have stores of vastly different sizes but they all have the same basic stock (which includes Meganobz and Thousand Sons in my area) - bigger ones have a bit of a larger range. Some products have been listed as direct-order only for absolutely ages, and some models since have been advertised as limited store releases (the Sanguinator being the last I can recall... I haven't been paying attention).

With regards to independent stores, I have some friends who ran an indepedent GW stockist in Oz and I got the impression from them (i.e. they told me) that it works very much in the fashion that mikhaila described above.

Since when were GW miniatures a vital primary producer anyway? Discount sellers aren't that scandalous, and inferring that GW introduced a direct-only range to compete with them doesn't make sense. They make models and sell them and they probably make a crapload from 'discount sellers' - after all, they've covered their costs if they've already sold it to a retailer. Maybe it's more expensive for them to expand their wholesale trade to include the entire range - after all, that's a hell of a lot of stock.

I can't even think of how long the Goblin Wolf Chariot has been on the shelf at my nearest GW, but I'm pretty sure it's the same one from years ago. If it's not selling enough in a GW store to justify having in stock (or re-stocking if it ever sells) then why would a discount seller want it in their inventory anyway? Discount sellers are extremely low-cost operators, and their popular products are likely the exact same as every other GW stockists in general terms.

Once again, this seems to be a UK issue, not US or Aus (now it would seem)

As to holding stock, the problem is Maelstrom orders it from GW on a week by week basis, other than special models, or those that have never been in a blister or box anyway, they should be able to access everything. Hell they used to stock pretty much the entire range.
As GW has been restricting stock for their stores, they are also using it as excuse to stop independents in the UK from having access to the same lines. That to me is madness.

What's bizarre about it to me is I don't see how its working in GW's favour anyways.
Those going into a GW store, to buy it, or order it in store would have done so anyways. However the kind of folks ordering for Maelstrom will not be as keen to go and buy it from GW direct.

Thus GW are potentially losing sales with this action. In todays market, that doesn't even make sense.
So what if the product is sold at discount, GW still gets its cut as it goes to Maelstrom.

Basically had I waited till today, gone to Maelstrom and found the boxes I got in Jan now missing, I wouldn't have started another 40K army at all.

Ah i misunderstood the underlying issue

Now its been summarized i feel the same way haha



Dan

I don't see that they are losing sales unless it doesn't concern them... they just aren't selling them at a discount. They have the right to do that so it sounds pretty fair to me. As I just said, miniatures aren't some sort of general produce to be wholesaled and flogged off by weight and postage - they're really bloody pieces of art and design and those designs belong to GW. If they had to sell unpopular models for example at a discount then they probably would... but clearly they don't!

Banshees, Rangers and Harlequins are still in stores around here... if they aren't in the UK then that sounds a little odd but I can accept that.

Aye it seems it sucks to be us at the moment.

Thinking about it, I'm trying to come up with other potential reasons for the move. From a more neutral position.

All I can think of, is this 'rumoured new metal replacement' is leading to more and more of the metal stock to go Direct, with the intention to re-release everything under the new material type at some point.

Or the fact some of the older metals are starting to look poor, so they are being much more selective on when and how many they cast.
The Banshee's for example had several mold age related marks over the squad, think the Rangers had some also. Although that doesn't account for everything they've made direct only.

The only good thing is Plastic seems immune to this phenomenon, so its still a good time to be a Marine player.

The Marine moulds, among others, have been re-cast and re-cut many times since the inception of the 'modern' plastic marine. The moulds still wear out, and although plastic moulds are far more expensive to make, they probably pay for themselves well enough to justify refreshing the mould.

Maelstrom probably can still order in most of the 'missing' products but are unwilling to do so because the wholesale discount may be less, as mikhaila mentioned. Referring to the store owners I know, shops that actively promote the games and models or run events are open to more privelege than plain resellers, who do not professionally contribute to the hobby community in any respect beyond riding GW's coat-tails to profit. For example, my friend's store received preview models before release much like GW stores, and hinted at what mikhaila explained - a different discount structure.

Maelstrom isn't a typical reseller, it has the equivilent to a Warhammer World store, with dedicated tourny area as well.

http://events.maelstromgames.co.uk/punbb/viewtopic.php?id=11

As to ordering, not sure they get discount at all. Wayland Games still stocks Direct Online items, I'm not sure if its so folks can get what they want in one place (as suggested) or to show folks how much they are losing access to.

All of the Direct Order stuff at Wayland costs more than GWs own prices.


The other issue I have over this, is it isn't the first time GW has declared war on discounters. They tried to harm them before with the extra rules on how much discount stores could have depending if you where a B&M, how much range you stocked in it, taught demo games etc.

This caught out alot of the bedroom sellers around the UK selling on ebay, but Wayland and Maelstrom, both had dedicated stores, and/or expanded on them so they would qualify for the maximum discount.
I find it no surprise this 'Product shuffling' has started to happen after it became clear the B&M rules where not going to effect the main discounting stores.

No it's not news that more and more products are going Direct Only. The point of my starting this thread was to let other customers know what latest products are moving to Direct Only like Space Marine Librarians, which is a change that is happening right now. That is news.

As usual, some people have derailed the main topic into the usual and often uninformed or misinformed rants about GW's business practices and competitiveness. We needed another thread like that like Slaanesh needs another pair of high-heeled sneakers. *sigh*

Well thats the point BrassScorpion, its more and more lines getting added to the list. I didn't even realise the Eldar stuff was gone until earlier, so I'm a little bit stunned if I'm honest, hence my ranty posts.
I really don't see the harm in discussing it mind, its not like anyone can argue lines aren't going direct only.

I'm also still trying to see if a decent reason for blocking Maelstrom and Wayland from selling so many lines at discount exists.

To be fair, the discussion of direct only getting larger hasn't come up that often, as it seems most folks don't think its happening, or its nothing to worry about.
Of course if you are in the US, then for the latter that is probably the case.

Thank you for the news. People are now discussing the news. Do you now feel the need to berate us?

This message was edited several times as I got angrier and angrier for no apparent reason. Last update was at 036/242/20..something... i dunno

H.B.M.C. wrote:Please don't call it a "FLGS". GW's cannot be FLGSs...

My local GW is my FLGS and I love it.

Sorry you hate the company and everything to do with it, but some of us have decided to accept GW for what it is (with it's flaws and everything) and have fun with the game.

On Topic: It could also be pointed out that GW has been rather active so far this year (especially compared to the past 2 years or so), it's possible that they've ramped up their design schedule to get more stuff out/replaced.

Worglock wrote:My local GW is my FLGS and I love it.

And your local Mom and Dad restaurant is McDonald's, right?

Sometimes they are. The one in Eastern Oregon that i used to visit was

That said I've found a better vibe usually at gmaing stores vs GW stores, back when I was in an area that had GW stores...

Kroothawk wrote:

Worglock wrote:My local GW is my FLGS and I love it.

And your local Mom and Dad restaurant is McDonald's, right?

The term "FLGS" doesn't expressly forbid Games Workshop's stores to be one.

After all:
It's the "Friendly Local Game Store". Not the "Friendly Local Independent Game Store".

I just wish GW would allow stores in the US that sell online to have a shopping cart. Then agien this has saved me from impulse buys.