Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

A pivot with a vehicle is not considered moving despite the model being physically moved.

Counts as moving is exactly that, counts as moving, but is not moving, it is shunting. I won't even bother listing the myriad of examples of counts as, moves as, firs as, etc, etc. A hive tyrant with wings moves as jump infantry. Is the hive tyrant jump infantry?

Nice that you actually do not post up the stickler of the rule Jid. There a reason why you leave out, "INSTEAD OF MOVING" from your quote?

How about you answer this,

If Scout moves allow a normal move, why are you trying to do something that can only occur if you are not moving?

The rule specifically says instead of moving, you can shunt. How you physically make a shunt is moving the model, but it is not a normal move, it is an ability that takes place instead of moving that as Jid even points out counts as moving, but again, is not moving.

I point it out again,

Instead of shooting the model can run.

Instead of moving the model can shunt.

Are you going to tell me that a unit that ran is considered to have shot?

How about some of the DE arcane weapons that say, instead of firing, <insert action here> have fired?

As much as you want to champion WHAT shunting tells you to physically do with the model (move your model 30", etc, etc), per the BRB and the GK codex you did not move, you shunted and Shunting has not been FAQ'd yet to be allowed during the Scout move.

In 1-2 months you can possibly enjoy Scout shunting dreadknights, maybe not. As of right now, you can't.

BR - yet you still, repeatedly, ignore the part where it tells you it is a MOVE

You make a *move* of up to 30".

Thats it. You have no argument, and posting a wall of text to try to convince people that youre right just isnt cutting it.

Currently we have scout shunting dreadknights, until and unless a FAQ changes the rules. Deal with it.

And all you do is cling to the fact that the word "move" is part of the description of how a teleport shunt is implemented.

How about an easy question,

Are you Shunting 30" or are you moving 30"?

Brother Ramses wrote:And all you do is cling to the fact that the word "move" is part of the description of how a teleport shunt is implemented.

How about an easy question,

Are you Shunting 30" or are you moving 30"?

"A unit that moves via a teleport shunt..." pg. 28

Sound like it's MOVING via a shunt to me.

BR you are moving using the special movement mode "shunt"

This isnt difficult. Really, just read all the rules, note the use of the word "move" is repeatedly in there.

Are the Mods asleep? I wish they would just pick one of these duplicate threads and lock the rest...

Brother Ramses wrote:A pivot with a vehicle is not considered moving despite the model being physically moved.

Any models count as moving if they are physically moved, unless stated otherwise. There is no exeption to the rule other than pivoting.

Counts as moving is exactly that, counts as moving, but is not moving, it is shunting. I won't even bother listing the myriad of examples of counts as, moves as, firs as, etc, etc. A hive tyrant with wings moves as jump infantry. Is the hive tyrant jump infantry?

Did you even bother to read the rule? Shunting is moving. It is a move. It says so three times in the rules text, before even telling you it counts as having moved.

Nice that you actually do not post up the stickler of the rule Jid. There a reason why you leave out, "INSTEAD OF MOVING" from your quote?

Yes, there is a reason. I had to write it down, get to a computer and type it off, as you quoted it like two tousand times, I guessed you knew that part.

How about you answer this,

If Scout moves allow a normal move, why are you trying to do something that can only occur if you are not moving?

The rule specifically says instead of moving, you can shunt. How you physically make a shunt is moving the model, but it is not a normal move, it is an ability that takes place instead of moving that as Jid even points out counts as moving, but again, is not moving.

So a shunt is a move, you have to move the model to shunt, it moves via teleport shunt by RAW. And you still insist on the model not moving? Don't know... do you need colorful pictures or something to help your reading comprehesion?

I point it out again,

Instead of shooting the model can run.

Instead of moving the model can shunt.

Are you going to tell me that a unit that ran is considered to have shot?

How about some of the DE arcane weapons that say, instead of firing, <insert action here> have fired?

Running replaces shooting with non-shooting.

Shunt replaces movement with movement.

Are you going to tell me that a unit shooting an arcane weapon instead of shooting a regular weapon has not shot? Can you say this in front of a mirror without feeling stupid?

Flawed logic everywere. Also no counterpoint to my previous definition of "instead". You are only required to be able use the action you want to replace, and may not take the replaced action. Nothing else has been proven by you.
Scout allows you make a normal move with no other restrictions but staying 12" away from any enemy. Shunt can be used any time you move normaly and replace that move.

As much as you want to champion WHAT shunting tells you to physically do with the model (move your model 30", etc, etc), per the BRB and the GK codex you did not move you shunted and Shunting has not been FAQ'd yet to be allowed during the Scout move.

In 1-2 months you can possibly enjoy Scout shunting dreadknights, maybe not. As of right now, you can't.

Bolded parts are in direct contradiction to codex rules for shunting. Also being arogant does not help you prove your point, rules do. You don't have any, just random made-up or irrelevant stuff.

I never said the DE arcane weapon shot. Several of the arcane weapons force a characteristic test, but by your standard they have shot because it was done instead of shooting right? Nice logic there.

And your assertion is wrong;

Shunt replaces movement with shunting.

It doesn't matter that to shunt you must move your model. That is just the mechanic of shunting which does not qualify it for a Scout move.

As has been mentioned, smoke launchers had to be FAQ'd to be used during the Scout move. Turbo-boosters had to be FAQ'd to be allowed during the Scout move (despite the RAW of them being part of Bikes movement section). Shunt will need the same.

Gotcha. You have no interest in rules actually written down in WH40k books, so this is not a WH40k rules debate. I'm out.

Shunting is a move SURELY...

a Model with Wings can make a normal move of 6", a jump infantry move of 12" or if it can shunt (which i know nothing with wings can yet) can MOVE up to 30"

a move, is a move...

Whats the difference?

BR - shunting is a move. It tells you that *******3****** times

You can pretend that it isnt a move. doesnt alter really, really simple facts.

So don't Scout move your Dreadknights on him, Just put them in reserve as Outflankers. Then when they come on on his flank during the game, they can cry that they can't outflank with a shunt because its not a normal move also, right??

You arguements hold no water. As much as my squishy DE troops and Vehicles will not like having a Dreadknight or 3 scout move into my face when they have turn 1, deal with it.

Nothing you have said holds water to the rules. the Scout rules states that they can make a normal move, which means anything that the unit does during its movement phase can be done, including smoke launchers. It didn't need to be FAQ'ed, they just needed to FAQ it for people who can't read in order and lack common sense. Turbo-boost didn't need to be FAQ'ed because it is also done in the movement phase and it is a move., but it was FAQ'ed for the same reason as smoke launchers.

If you really need this to not work when it is so simply stated within the rules of the BRB that it can, no matter what army you play, then maybe you should either learn some better tactics with your army, pick a different army, or stop playing, because I know that I personally would not want to play someone who can't read the rules and doesn't know what the word move means when used to describe what you do in the movement phase. And if you can do it in the movement phase normally, you can do it in the Scout move.

End of story, not here to debate. You don't like what I said, leave it, but your still wrong if you think you can't shunt during the Scout move.

Why do people care, when you give him the teleporter he becomes jump infantry and losses his MC status along with relentless and all the cool other abilities he has.

tgf wrote:Why do people care, when you give him the teleporter he becomes jump infantry and losses his MC status along with relentless and all the cool other abilities he has.

lets not open that argument up in this thread also.....

Galador wrote:So don't Scout move your Dreadknights on him, Just put them in reserve as Outflankers. Then when they come on on his flank during the game, they can cry that they can't outflank with a shunt because its not a normal move also, right??

You arguements hold no water. As much as my squishy DE troops and Vehicles will not like having a Dreadknight or 3 scout move into my face when they have turn 1, deal with it.

Nothing you have said holds water to the rules. the Scout rules states that they can make a normal move, which means anything that the unit does during its movement phase can be done, including smoke launchers. It didn't need to be FAQ'ed, they just needed to FAQ it for people who can't read in order and lack common sense. Turbo-boost didn't need to be FAQ'ed because it is also done in the movement phase and it is a move., but it was FAQ'ed for the same reason as smoke launchers.

If you really need this to not work when it is so simply stated within the rules of the BRB that it can, no matter what army you play, then maybe you should either learn some better tactics with your army, pick a different army, or stop playing, because I know that I personally would not want to play someone who can't read the rules and doesn't know what the word move means when used to describe what you do in the movement phase. And if you can do it in the movement phase normally, you can do it in the Scout move.

End of story, not here to debate. You don't like what I said, leave it, but your still wrong if you think you can't shunt during the Scout move.

You actually spent more time attacking GW FAQs and me then making anything resembling a valid point.

Cool story bro?

Because he has a weapons skill of more than 3, and any single model with WS4+ can murder 5000 points worth of tau in close combat.

Plus he can still punch tanks.

Jidmah wrote:Because he has a weapons skill of more than 3, and any single model with WS4+ can murder 5000 points worth of tau in close combat.

Plus he can still punch tanks.

you don't need a 4+ to murder Tau in cc, even 5k pts of them..... you only need to show them that knives aren't for "bonding", they are for separating things!! Like separating arms, and fingers and toes and other things from the main body....

You're following dash's advice too much

Just let Brother Ramses "win" the thread.
He clearly has no interest in logic or reason.
He argues the same points which have been proven wrong, so might as well just drop it and let the troll play.

Jidmah wrote:You're following dash's advice too much

You seem to be a bit mistaken, we Dark Eldar follow noone.... we simply do what the Archon (Dash) wants until we see the golden opportunity to kill them and take their place.....

BR in your argument above you proved that a shunt move can be done in the scout phase. In the BRB scout move states that in the scout phase you may make a normal move, in the GK codex its states that instead of moving you may make a shunt move. Scout allows you to move and codex allows you to instead of moving your scout move shunt. Nowhere in the codex does it state what phase this has to be done with the only stipulation is that you have to be able to move so that you can replace said move with a shunt hell by that standard you could roll to run which would allow you to move at a minimum of 1 inch and as the rules states instead of moving use your shunt.

BR's "argument" is that, despite the Shunt being referred to repeatedly as a "move" it isnt really a move, honest.

Its a poor argument.

Edit: Arguement removed because I don't care.

I'm going to have a mighty laugh when (I guess to be safe I should say if) this get's officially FAQ'd. People are gonna whine so hard.

I don't see anything wrong with shunting during scout moves. It's the same as turboboosting but you can only do it once. I think the argument that it should be treated the same way is pretty solid.

I think primairly because it doesn't have the limitations that turboboosting has, not that it matters, even if it stays 12" away it will still be on them next turn. I can see pros and cons both ways, and frankly I don't care, I have my point of view on it, but whether or not its how it gets played out,meh, I just go with the flow. You want to throw 3 Dreadknights into my lines front and center.. enjoy if I seize the initiative (wait don't you guys have a guy that lets you re-roll that)... so jelous.. so jelous..

No one taking Shunt lists will have Coteaz, so don't fret. Steal that initiative and crush them.

Haha, I"m not fretting, I'll go whichver way the faq says or if someone can give me a more persuasive argument then Because I say so, or smoke/tb I'll be glad to concede my opinion on it and change my mind

I just don't see how it can't be seen to work. No one has yet to provide a point of real contention. So, impasse it it.

The Absloute closest thing to this case is the instead of shooting running case,

Turbo-Boost arguments are invalid, because TB is a normal move like it or not and was FAQed prove to me from the wording that it isnt a normal more where it stats instead of or the option to this over this, there is NONE.


TB is the name for a bike moving over 12", and a BIKES NORMAL MOVEMENT RANGE is 0"-24" all the time every-time, TB isnt forgoing it as i mentioned it is the move just different name.



Shunt is instead of moving right??

Running is instead of shooting right???





So if you can shunt in scout phae which is special permission to move then, why can i run when i get special permission to shoot from a Old DH Auspex?>?

I cant run when i use a auspex because is specifically states shooting there for i can only shoot.

Shunt is not a move on its on in the game sense,

Its mentions "move" when it says to move you models, otherwise some idiot is gonna say hes shunting and not pick them up.

Because if it said you shunt 30", then whats a shunt?

So they put move to make it idiot proof.



Shunt cant be used when special permission to move in the scout phase is given.

Check the other thread, I think you are just missing the point entirely. Straw men don't make good arguments, so I quoted the BRB for you.