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When your are older and gainfully employed with 2.4 kids and a picket fence to whitewash you may need to reconsider Cadaver!

As for spending £50 quid to pee and puke down the lavvie?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
We may have had these threads before.
But do you not see the paradox of using an unoriginal off the peg image with white bold type face to berate this thread.

We have had all these pictorial cliches trawled out as if some kind of witty remark has been made.
Would be so much better for people to respond with sparkling wit, not flat watered down ale.

Or refrain from posting at all?

infinite_array wrote:

The thing is, we've heard these threads before. And before then. And before THEN. The very thing man did when he finally evolved enough to articulate sounds into meaningful language was complain about GW's prices.

I actually lol'd at that

The people who cared about the hobby initially, how made GW what it is, have been forced out of the door by the bean counters. I still believe there are a core of people, the designers and a few stragglers of old-guard (Jervis Johnson etc.) who genuinely love what they do and want the best for the hobby, but their actions are controlled by sinister overlords, who sit in darkened rooms smoking and with their hands templed and simply nod in approval when a goblin underling shows them a plan for the next cunning money-making scheme.

Root of all the evil: going public with the company on the crest of the LoTR boom, foolishly believing that such a revenue influx would be sustainable over the long-term. This is why practically every release, every change in the rules and new product release in the past 4 or 5 years, has just been an attempt to make maximum profit for minimum expenditure. While I don't have a problem with that, the games themselves have suffered; 'apocalypse' of both 40k and WFB becoming the standard 'way to play' meaning that now massive expenditure is needed before you can field even a modest army.
- The sidelining of SG (really the proof of who is in control of the company, that much fun for $50 is not a wise idea)
- the cut backs of budget in both the production of WD (no 'journalism' any more because they can't afford to pay anyone to write anything that isn't an advert), and the lack of new artwork being produced (again - too expensive),
- cutting down the stores to one-man units, perhaps defeating the entire object of them existing (to attract more youngsters into the game), as it's difficult to run a demo game when you are trying to answer the phone, serve at the till and eat your lunch at the same time. Although perhaps that isn't an issue if the company is indeed switching to resin, as no responsible parent is going to let their younger child come within a mile of it.

I'm only half serious with these comments, but I genuinely believe we would be in a better position now if the company hadn't got greedy all those years ago and made the company public, and would now be in a position where it had the interests of the hobbyist, rather than the shareholder, at heart. And of course the company is still producing some beautiful stuff, and makes a lot of people happy (myself included often, despite this rantish post!) But, it's hard not to think of 'what could have been'.

Part of me hopes that the share price will drop enough that some philanthropist(?!) will make a majority buy out of the company, and then put a load of hobby-orientated guys back in charge of it as it once was. Any millionaires reading this who have this desire and have some spare change hanging around in your pocket, the onus is on you

My second purchase after winning the lotto would be majority share at GW. My first purchase would be a Lotus Elise. Them's some sexy cars.

I like chicken wing....

Oh look, its this topic again

Well they're pretty much like any other big corperation, they charge 1/3-1/2 extra becuase of being a namebrand.

Wal Mart is a big name and they charge pennies on the dollar for stuff.

Oddly enough, GW lost with wal mart some years ago on a distribution deal. GW wanted an ENTIRE aisle to themselves at full retail pricing. I can't imagine why they wouldn't compromise to such global sales and marketing. They just refused to play ball.

aerethan wrote:Wal Mart is a big name and they charge pennies on the dollar for stuff.

Oddly enough, GW lost with wal mart some years ago on a distribution deal. GW wanted an ENTIRE aisle to themselves at full retail pricing. I can't imagine why they wouldn't compromise to such global sales and marketing. They just refused to play ball.

If that is even half true then it really does mean that GW is run by the biggest morons to ever be in charge of anything.

And no, bulk plastic that is used to make models has not gone up in price significantly and no it isnt special. GW prices are just high because they think THEY are special. And since everyone keeps buying it they must be right.

I believe it was in 2001 that they were in talks with wal mart, and wal mart declined due to the ridiculous demands and GW's inability to budge on pricing. Apparently GW felt they didn't need to exposure or cash flow at the time. I wonder if they still feel that way.

Oh look, it is this thread again.Anybody want any cheese to go with their Whine.I am still going to buy their products so is everyone else.New ,Used,Any way or how People are going to buy their products.At least we are finally Getting the big Plastic kits,instead of the Forge World Head aches.All of the New plastic big kits are worth their money.

One site I've grown to love now is miniaturemarket. (They advertise on Dakka so go use that link )

I've ordered with them twice now with the best discount I've been able to find so far online.

infinite_array wrote:

The thing is, we've heard these threads before. And before then. And before THEN. The very thing man did when he finally evolved enough to articulate sounds into meaningful language was complain about GW's prices.

sigd

I ain't so you are wrong

The big kits are still overpriced imho.
(compared to equivalent amount of plastics in all but a few of the scale models)

There have been dramatic price increases from some of the Japanese firms like Hasegawa.
Revell of Germany, Airfix and others based in Europe (and The USA afaik) have not had anything like the same level of price rises.

Oh look someone is going to say it's a niche luxury car in this sort of thread again in 5, 4, 3, 2,...

IT"S A NICHE LUXURY CAR!!!!

couldn't resist. And car prices don't increase 60% because metal costs more. In fact, 60% increases just don't happen that often, yet GW does it so casually.

I work(ed) in the toy/collectible industry for nearly 10 years...but still work injection molding...and what they charge for the ...unpainted, on the sprue , plastic little men...makes my head hurt. But I have also been playing this game(s) since I was a kid...and I am now a full grown fan boy...so I put up with it because I enjoy it.

The bit about GW and walmart, I am going to have to call BS about...what walmart requires of people to make them (wally world ) a customer, I dont think GW could meet even if they wanted too.

Commisar Von Humps wrote:Quite simply, its Leze Faire(i think thats how its spelt...lol), they can charge whatever they want because we will pay almost anything for our plastic little men.

And truth be told, they make an obscene profit, i heard somewhere thats its like 77%(which im sure is an exageration )

There's exaggeration and utter bollocks.

Go have a look at their freely available year end results. I think you'll find that the actual profit is surprisingly low.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I ain't so you are wrong

The big kits are still overpriced imho.
(compared to equivalent amount of plastics in all but a few of the scale models)

There have been dramatic price increases from some of the Japanese firms like Hasegawa.
Revell of Germany, Airfix and others based in Europe (and The USA afaik) have not had anything like the same level of price rises.

Airfix is in China these days, this is why they prices are low.

Plus, they are using mostly old (very old) molds bought at firesale-price from the bankrupcy of the original company...


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Pacific wrote:
I'm only half serious with these comments, but I genuinely believe we would be in a better position now if the company hadn't got greedy all those years ago and made the company public, and would now be in a position where it had the interests of the hobbyist, rather than the shareholder, at heart.

But that kind of stuff happens EVERY TIME a company gets big. You can't manage a corporation same way like you manage small business. I saw it happen with WotC too, exact same thing. Already there are people complaining that Privateer Press is gradually becoming more GW-like.

Backfire wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:I ain't so you are wrong

The big kits are still overpriced imho.
(compared to equivalent amount of plastics in all but a few of the scale models)

There have been dramatic price increases from some of the Japanese firms like Hasegawa.
Revell of Germany, Airfix and others based in Europe (and The USA afaik) have not had anything like the same level of price rises.

Airfix is in China these days, this is why they prices are low.

Plus, they are using mostly old (very old) molds bought at firesale-price from the bankrupcy of the original company...

The moulds were essentially Airfix's anyway but they are also selling new toolings, eg 1/48 Sea Vixen £30, Bf109E-3/4 £15
There are plenty of new toolings constantly being released.
I am aware of the switch to China, as with Revell of Germany also. 1/32 BAe Hawk £20.
May be mistaken but was there not a thread discussing GW's production also having some Chinese output?

Even if not, the point is that the price of plastic is not going to be any cheaper in China, even if labour costs are.

I really don't think Games Workshop prices are that expensive.

Moulds are very expensive.
Sculpting & design takes time which has to be paid for.
Oil prices are going up and up.
and a million other reasons previously mentioned.

It's a hobby aimed at the middle-classes with middle-class income. There are many more hobbies out there that are a lot more expensive than GW games, and plenty that cost a lot less. I choose my hobbies based on what I can afford; I used to go 4x4 off-roading but I can no longer afford the risk of repairs to my car or to buy a 2nd car. So I chose a different hobby, gaming

Shepherd23 wrote:

aerethan wrote:Wal Mart is a big name and they charge pennies on the dollar for stuff.

Oddly enough, GW lost with wal mart some years ago on a distribution deal. GW wanted an ENTIRE aisle to themselves at full retail pricing. I can't imagine why they wouldn't compromise to such global sales and marketing. They just refused to play ball.

If that is even half true then it really does mean that GW is run by the biggest morons to ever be in charge of anything.

And no, bulk plastic that is used to make models has not gone up in price significantly and no it isnt special. GW prices are just high because they think THEY are special. And since everyone keeps buying it they must be right.

I totaly respect GW if they refuesd to deal with Wal Mart.

I work in finance and super markets are a total nightmare. They treat their supplyers like crap, never pay them and are just a total pain.

It says to me not that GW are money grabing, but that they have ethics about who they will supply to. It says to me that they don't want the small hobby shops pushed out of the market.

As Ugavine says, its not that expensive a hobby anyway. A set of tyres for my motorbike cost about £300...

Excuses are so readily made to justify the addiction Ugavine.
Like I said, some kit makers don't charge the earth.
They have far more complicated moulds to make for some kits, they have to do specific research and design and use plastic.

Oil prices have gone down as well as up

Bottom line is, for whatever perverted reason, people want to pay top dollar to make themselves feel good about toy soldiers.
Some object and get bounced on for daring to make moan

GW is awesome, warhammer is awesome, and as a result I will happily keep buying their stuff.

And thats why there are expensive!

An Iphone is way more expensive than my crappy old Sony, know why? Its awesome!

Cool stuff costs the most, thats business for ya.

And GW stuff is sweeeeet.

Every time we get one of these threads calling GW the Evil Empire or some such thing, this is what I picture:

Cool stuff costs the most?

I dreamt about Jimmy Hendrix last night for free.

Lorek wrote:Every time we get one of these threads calling GW the Evil Empire or some such thing, this is what I picture:

Oh Penny Arcade. What can't you solve with your wit!

Cutting! so damning and accurate a caricature.

I'm reserving judgment till the new Tomb King Battalion is released.

From what I hear it's exaclty the same but with 8 more skellitons.

If the price remains the same I'll be impressed.

I'm guessing they'll bring the price up to £55 which is "fair" in line with their prices.

If it's raised even higher it's just simple money grabbing

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:
The moulds were essentially Airfix's anyway but they are also selling new toolings, eg 1/48 Sea Vixen £30, Bf109E-3/4 £15
There are plenty of new toolings constantly being released.
I am aware of the switch to China, as with Revell of Germany also. 1/32 BAe Hawk £20.
May be mistaken but was there not a thread discussing GW's production also having some Chinese output?

Some of the GW accessories are nowadays made in China (paints, figure cases etc.). I've also heard that Forgeworld has moved production to China, but dunno if that's true. Main figure production is still done at GW's main plant. I'm sure we will hear about it if it moves.

purplefood wrote:Plastic is getting more expensive...
The molds are also apparently expensive.

while small companies like victrix charge £20 for 60 multi part plastic models to the same and better quality than GW those 2 reasons will NEVER hold water

for the price of a BA battleforce giving you a handful of useless tripe for a woefully done gaming system I will be happy with 180 models

My idea (not original):

If I buy a box of Orks with 11 guys in there for $25, it will take me a night to assemble them and probably 5 more nights to paint them/finish them. So I got 6 nights of entertainment already. Now let's say I play 4 games which include them. That's ten nights of fun. For $25. In other words:

It cost me $2.50 per night of fun. If I wanted a night of fun at the movies, it would be $10. If I wanted to eat out, it would be $5 - $15 depending on how frugal I feel. Bowling would be $7 for one game. And so on.

Plus if you stay in the hobby, models are free to play with once you've finished them. They continue to provide nights of fun even if you decide you don't have time to paint or model anything else.

So try to think of it in terms of the hours of fun you get for your money. Can you get models from other ranges for less? Maybe. But the GW line offers amazing variety and excellent quality for games that everybody plays. I don't consider other games anymore because for my time and money, I'd rather paint something that I can play with rather than a game I have to beg people to get into (and that never really works all that well usually).

always love on the internet if someone has a genuine complaint about anything its auto-labelled as "whining"

and the same old tired lines of cheese/wine come out...its worse than the original complaints people.
its lame psuedo intellectual ego-babble, at least raise a counter argument! (the post above mine is a good example of a fair and non agressive counter argument!)


GW are very expensive for what you get. But like most Savvy players I buy from ebay, swap with friends, use alternate models etc.
If I MUST buy something new I buy from a discount place for 20%+ off.

I do agree the company has really gone downhill in its behavior though and some of the gaming has suffered due to it :( I miss the good old days lol.