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Kilkrazy wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

sexiest_hero wrote:Yeah kids are bad. But that's nothing new. I watch a lot of rifftrax and MST3k and they have these old PSA about bad kids. gangster beatnics hoods. It's all the same. The answer is not hitting children but teaching them how to behave. But is'a just easy to say "They took prayer out of school" and "I can't hit my kid." Rather than "I'm a bad parent who relies on the school system and grandparents to raise my kid while I play Farmville." It's not that people don't hit their children (God knows they do) it's that they don't bother to teach them, or even explain why they are being beaten.

I partly agree with you here Hero....yes,there have always been "bad" kids...hell I was a "bad" kid myself,but the amount and the nature of the disrespect (particularly among young children 4-12) has definatley seemed to increase,very rarely as a child myself did I see another kid tell their Mother to @%*! off!!...and if I did that kid got slapped...I see it all the time now.

I do agree that many parents aren't taking resposibility for raising their kids and really taking the time to sit them down and teach them right from wrong,but disagree that a good swat on their backside doesn't help bring them back in line if they "forget" what you've taken the time to teach them.

As for prayer in school...meh...I went to public school in the 70's and 80's...we didn't have it...and we still knew better than to act like a bunch of little savages.

Now you are sounding like Socrates.

"Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers."

Working in a jail, you can imagine what I see....

Occasionally there will be a 15yo locked up in General population. They're just as beligerant as any Gang member or typical jerk in the block...with a total disregard for any authority figure.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Miraclefish wrote:Well the world is run by a bunch of lefties who prize political correctness and paperwork against common sense and morality.

Here we go again...

I'm politically left wing and I believe a child should be smacked if it misbehaves enough to warrant it (ie if it annoys me).

Also, I would imagine many of those drooling cretins who spoil and indulge their children without boundaries are well off enough and stupid enough to belong to the tea party.

Do not equate left wing politics with weakness.

I agree that this isn't a "left wing /right wing" thing...my politics are a mix of both and I'll still clout my kids sideways if they need it...

My daughter has been hit twice, I think. Both times when she was quite little and not amenable to reason. All it took was a slap on the arm.

I don't think it works for older children. The fact that some parents have to use beating a lot shows that it isn't working with their children.

Kilkrazy wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

sexiest_hero wrote:Yeah kids are bad. But that's nothing new. I watch a lot of rifftrax and MST3k and they have these old PSA about bad kids. gangster beatnics hoods. It's all the same. The answer is not hitting children but teaching them how to behave. But is'a just easy to say "They took prayer out of school" and "I can't hit my kid." Rather than "I'm a bad parent who relies on the school system and grandparents to raise my kid while I play Farmville." It's not that people don't hit their children (God knows they do) it's that they don't bother to teach them, or even explain why they are being beaten.

I partly agree with you here Hero....yes,there have always been "bad" kids...hell I was a "bad" kid myself,but the amount and the nature of the disrespect (particularly among young children 4-12) has definatley seemed to increase,very rarely as a child myself did I see another kid tell their Mother to @%*! off!!...and if I did that kid got slapped...I see it all the time now.

I do agree that many parents aren't taking resposibility for raising their kids and really taking the time to sit them down and teach them right from wrong,but disagree that a good swat on their backside doesn't help bring them back in line if they "forget" what you've taken the time to teach them.

As for prayer in school...meh...I went to public school in the 70's and 80's...we didn't have it...and we still knew better than to act like a bunch of little savages.

Of course Socrates was right...
-the got soft and those barbarians from the north took over. Neh look I invented 18 foot long pikes meh...look I'm the new king and we should invade Persia meh...
Now you are sounding like Socrates.

"Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers."

Kilkrazy wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

sexiest_hero wrote:Yeah kids are bad. But that's nothing new. I watch a lot of rifftrax and MST3k and they have these old PSA about bad kids. gangster beatnics hoods. It's all the same. The answer is not hitting children but teaching them how to behave. But is'a just easy to say "They took prayer out of school" and "I can't hit my kid." Rather than "I'm a bad parent who relies on the school system and grandparents to raise my kid while I play Farmville." It's not that people don't hit their children (God knows they do) it's that they don't bother to teach them, or even explain why they are being beaten.

I partly agree with you here Hero....yes,there have always been "bad" kids...hell I was a "bad" kid myself,but the amount and the nature of the disrespect (particularly among young children 4-12) has definatley seemed to increase,very rarely as a child myself did I see another kid tell their Mother to @%*! off!!...and if I did that kid got slapped...I see it all the time now.

I do agree that many parents aren't taking resposibility for raising their kids and really taking the time to sit them down and teach them right from wrong,but disagree that a good swat on their backside doesn't help bring them back in line if they "forget" what you've taken the time to teach them.

As for prayer in school...meh...I went to public school in the 70's and 80's...we didn't have it...and we still knew better than to act like a bunch of little savages.

Now you are sounding like Socrates.

"Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers."

C'Mon Killkrazy...I realize that each generation tends to belive the generation that follows it are " just the worst ever"...but I don't think this is a case of hindsight bluring perspective....
As I said...there where plenty of "bad" kids when I was young...I myself was one...got in trouble...had to be disciplined..etc.
But...the degree to which the disrespect goes these days didn't exist on the same leval as it does now...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:My daughter has been hit twice, I think. Both times when she was quite little and not amenable to reason. All it took was a slap on the arm.

I don't think it works for older children. The fact that some parents have to use beating a lot shows that it isn't working with their children.

I don't use it a lot...hardly ever anymore...I haven't spanked my daughter in years and my sons last pop on the butt was over six months ago when he was rude to his Mother.
In general I prefer talking to my kids...always have...but...if it's waranted I will spank.

I've raised my two with a mixture of explaining/teaching/talking and if needed a swat on the butt...and both have turned out to be fairly well behaved....so for me and mine...my way worked just fine.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Miraclefish wrote:Well the world is run by a bunch of lefties who prize political correctness and paperwork against common sense and morality.

A town council over here in England turned down the chance to have an automatic defibrillator machine to be kept in the town hall - which could save a life - in case someone sued them if it was used improperly.

We have one here. I don't want anyone touching me with that here and have told them that. better to wait the extra minute for experts versus incompetents.

Yeah. You can do a lot of damage with a defibrillator. People should carry their own if they are so keen on being defibrillated. No more namby-pamby socialist health care.

The problem I have with "you could hurt yourself!" as an argument is that I can buy a pair of scissors with no prescription and stab my face all I want. There's no reason i need to fork out an extra hundred bucks every year to buy contacts.

I spank my little one on the arm only hard enough to hurt her feelings. then tell her why she can't do something.After that I tell her all the things she can do and do them with her. It's a great parenting tip I learned in the military. Like when your kid has something, take it and offer their favorite toy instead. God forbid parents take a parenting class. Kids are bad because parents are bad. It's not the children's fault.

When I was a child and started doing gak like that, I'd know I'd be getting:

A: A spanking
B: Thrown into the creek, again, cause it was funny as well as effective.(no drowning risks or anything mind you, only leeches.. lots of them)
C: Get the opposite of what I wanted. Like if i'd have been screaming Ice cream, They would'v brought extra vegetables or something.

These are all reasons why I handcuff and lock my 7yo son in the basement without light. (you know, so he can sleep)

Oh I thought you were depriving him of light to keep him small!

Honestly if the best way you can think of to deal with any situation is to restrain and hit a child... you need better ways to deal with that situation.

This is exactly what the parents of the yelling and screaming kids always say!

These are also the same people that think its their to right bring their screeching children to inappropriate places! When you call them on it you are the jerk!

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis/the-crying-game-spanish-star-hits-ball-at-crying-baby-20110331-1cgzz.html

Really bringing a baby to the Masters. WTF?

Bad kids come from bad parents. The kids shouldn't be beaten the parents should.

Bad kids come from bad parents who don't enforce discipline

Fixed that for you.

Frazzled wrote:Yeah that sentence was DEATH.

There were three things that were completely terrifying for me..

1. I knew I had misbehaved at school and my dads care was in the driveway when I got off the bus.
***Translation: The executioner hath come!

2. the "wait till your father gets home"
***Don’t make me outsource your beat down to an expert consultant!

3. "your father had to leave work early because you couldn’t behave"
***Your father had to come home early for your beating. Leaving early would normally make him happy but instead he’s mad, really mad. If you can convince him leaving early was good and he should go enjoy it playing golf or whatever WIN, if however this just annoys him even more FAIL*2.

Number three meant I might as well start writing my will...

Really, if it got to #3 in my family, there was no more room for negotiation, crying or anything else, because the rocket had already been launched, it just hadn't impacted yet. I didn't need to be beat too much when I was a kid, mostly because I witnessed my older brother getting thrashed, not that it did any good. If it wasn't streaking or stealing cars it was promising to pay a hooker (Undercover cop) in pills. It was the sort of brutality that even a chaos space marines would shrink from, and he never learned his lesson. If some parents really believed in god, they would be inspired on occasion to return their little monster to the workshop stamped "Defective, incinerate and replace with properly functioning model." I was also too apathetic to act out, I would rather sulk, which my parents responded to by looooooonnnnnnggggggg lectures, which made me wish sometimes that they would just beat me and get it over with.

Reading the OP, it's times like this that I'm glad I live in Canada - It's still legal to spank a child. Apparently our politicians are still smart enough to discern between discipline and abuse. Any time y'all would like to come up from the United States of Jesusland, you feel welcome

I used to get spanked all the time when I was little, until about the age of 7 or 8 when I watched my mother chop a 2" thick cutting board in half in anger once when my brother and I wouldn't stop screaming at each other. I still misbehaved a bit after that, but no one ever went upside my backside ever again. I was a very mild kid after that. Scared the crap out of me, then scared it back in.

smart parents know that its not the frequency of the spankings that matter but the quality of the spankings

metallifan wrote:Reading the OP, it's times like this that I'm glad I live in Canada - It's still legal to spank a child. Apparently our politicians are still smart enough to discern between discipline and abuse. Any time y'all would like to come up from the United States of Jesusland, you feel welcome

That could be a new threat. "Don't make me take you to Canada".

I know someone will follow that up so might as well do it myself

What's new about that! rimshot.

Bakerofish wrote:smart parents know that its not the frequency of the spankings that matter but the quality of the spankings

Hear Hear. I didn't get spanked often as a child, but sonofabitch did I ever get damn walloped when I did.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:The problem I have with "you could hurt yourself!" as an argument is that I can buy a pair of scissors with no prescription and stab my face all I want.

SIGGED

Punishments were the wooden spoon, the bar of soap and if Dad was choppered in for festivities the belt. My older sister messed up her kids by always freaking out and over hitting her kids lightly to the point they're completely immune to her insanity and she will die a sad old lonely woman. Her being a slut and having a parade of boyfriends didn't help either. The OP witnessed my sister at lunch with her kids 20 years ago. (She never got the beatdowns as she always 'ran away' for hours and hours getting Mom all worked up who would be so happy when she was found that the beating would be cancelled.)

In Japan, kids are generally well behaved. There are a few that need to meet a sack full of doorknobs once in while, but they prefer to go the indirect, and slow,social route of ostracization for punishment.

Bakerofish wrote:smart parents know that its not the frequency of the spankings that matter but the quality of the spankings

This is very true constant small punishments don't work and begin to affect self esteem, they do become truly abusive. One or two good beatings can put the fear of God into a kid though. My dad had a fraternity paddle, with raised letters for extra pain and air holes for less air resistance. Let me tell you, he just walked towards that thing and a halo formed over my head.

You guys should write a parenting guide.

Khornholio wrote:Punishments were the wooden spoon, the bar of soap and if Dad was choppered in for festivities the belt. My older sister messed up her kids by always freaking out and over hitting her kids lightly to the point they're completely immune to her insanity and she will die a sad old lonely woman. Her being a slut and having a parade of boyfriends didn't help either. The OP witnessed my sister at lunch with her kids 20 years ago. (She never got the beatdowns as she always 'ran away' for hours and hours getting Mom all worked up who would be so happy when she was found that the beating would be cancelled.)

In Japan, kids are generally well behaved. There are a few that need to meet a sack full of doorknobs once in while, but they prefer to go the indirect, and slow,social route of ostracization for punishment.

Oh god the bar of soap... If I swore, I'd have to keep that bar in my mouth for as many minutes as there were letters in the word I used. If I tried to take it out before the time was up, I'd get another 4 or 5 minutes on top of the time I still had left. If I kept trying, I'd get a spank and/or I'd have to do all my younger brother's chores on top of my own.

Come to think of it, maybe that's why I'm the one that actually learned work ethic and did something with his life

metallifan wrote:

Khornholio wrote:Punishments were the wooden spoon, the bar of soap and if Dad was choppered in for festivities the belt. My older sister messed up her kids by always freaking out and over hitting her kids lightly to the point they're completely immune to her insanity and she will die a sad old lonely woman. Her being a slut and having a parade of boyfriends didn't help either. The OP witnessed my sister at lunch with her kids 20 years ago. (She never got the beatdowns as she always 'ran away' for hours and hours getting Mom all worked up who would be so happy when she was found that the beating would be cancelled.)

In Japan, kids are generally well behaved. There are a few that need to meet a sack full of doorknobs once in while, but they prefer to go the indirect, and slow,social route of ostracization for punishment.

Oh god the bar of soap... If I swore, I'd have to keep that bar in my mouth for as many minutes as there were letters in the word I used. If I tried to take it out before the time was up, I'd get another 4 or 5 minutes on top of the time I still had left. If I kept trying, I'd get a spank and/or I'd have to do all my younger brother's chores on top of my own.

Come to think of it, maybe that's why I'm the one that actually learned work ethic and did something with his life

We were out of bar soap once, my mom made me sit with a mouth of liquid hand soap in my mouth. I'll take the bar any day.

Kilkrazy wrote:Children are a blank slate when born. They have drives but no social skills.

They learn clues about correct social behaviour from their parents and other close relatives.

Hence, you are the product of your environment.

Chongara wrote:

ShivanAngel wrote:yah thats some bs tbh... A swat on the behind is considered battery now?

Hitting someone is in fact the very definition of battery.

Honestly if the best way you can think of to deal with any situation is to restrain and hit a child... you need better ways to deal with that situation.

No, hitting someone is the definition of assault. battery means repetition. Though, disciplining your children should not be a matter for the Law unless you proceed to go above and beyond basic discipline.

Andrew1975 wrote:We were out of bar soap once, my mom made me sit with a mouth of liquid hand soap in my mouth. I'll take the bar any day.

Apparently it was always the lolz when I had to nom the soap, because I would do running commentary. I think they just gave me the soap sometimes because I would constantly be talking about how gross it was -while- the bar of soap was hanging out of my mouth, making everything I say "thound 'ike thith"

Mike Noble wrote: I think there was something wrong with those parents, for the kids to be running around everywhere.

Message corrected
with apologies to Mike.

Kilkrazy wrote:Children are a blank slate when born. They have drives but no social skills.

They learn clues about correct social behaviour from their parents and other close relatives.

Or conversely, they don't learn social skills due to their parents are to lazy to teach them.

i have very mixed feelings on this. i was spanked, alot, as a child. that was how it was done when i grew up, period.
My wife and her brother where beaten, well past abuse. When we went into business having our brood, we discussed
it at great length and decided that wouldn't be our course of action. and don't get me wrong it wasn't easy. but i can
count on one hand the number of time our kids have been spanked/swatted on the butt, each.

there is a happy middle ground that can be reached. it just takes parents willing to care to do it.

When I was growing up I was always threatened with being hit with a wooden spoon to discipline me.

I never WAS hit (bar the odd smack on the arse if I was really bad), but the threat of it was generally enough to stop me being bad. And I'm pretty well adjusted as a human being.

I think some people today need to be taught how to be good parents, really. I'm not endorsing battering your child, but sometimes the odd spank is the way forward. Or at least threaten to do it. Like someone said, giving in to kids is just going to make them worse...

Hell, my sister threw a tantrum once because she wanted a barbie, and my parents just walked off and left her screaming (but kept her in eyesight). Needless to say, my sister thought she was being abandoned because she did it, and never did it again.

If kids are acting out in public, it’s a symptom of what is going on--or not going on, in the home, regarding discipline. I've seen too many weak and lazy parents talk, threaten, and cajole from a distance at their misbehaving children. It's all sound and fury, and means nothing to the child. Kids play such parents like a fiddle.

The key to making children behave is for parents to say very little, and just get off their butts and firmly take ahold of the errant child. They need to get physically close, look them in the eyes, and give them a choice. Stop the behavior, or the consequence will be going home, time out in the car, or up in your room. Even if the parent has to interrupt their public meal to sit out in the car with the child, you do it. Do it once or twice, and the child learns you mean what you say. It’s the down payment you make to insure better behavior in the future. It’s the only way. If the kids scream, cry or kick, so be it. Weather it out, and the kids learn soon enough they are not going to get their way, and you as the parents mean business. This is the part some parents wimp out on, especially moms. No kid has ever died or suffered psychological damage from throwing a tantrum. The key is to remove the child from the audience that want to mantipulate.

There is no need to resort to physical punishment to tame kids. In our house, spanking, or as we called it, a pop on the pants, was not meant to punish, but to get their attention when they were out of control. Once they quieted down, we would give the consequnces to choose from.

Miraclefish wrote:Well the world is run by a bunch of lefties who prize political correctness and paperwork against common sense and morality.

A town council over here in England turned down the chance to have an automatic defibrillator machine to be kept in the town hall - which could save a life - in case someone sued them if it was used improperly.

Blame something random on the leftists. Yeah, nice one. Do you think before you spout that kind of flamebait?

---------------

Kids are soft nowadays, its a shame.

in all fairness i didnt get spanked too much but i was often sent out to do about 2 or 3 hours manual labour for being 'naughty', it taught me to work and to do it to perfection it also meant by the age of five i could handbrake-turn a car, drive a tractor, quad bike, 21 ton digger and have a work ethic which has got me past my inter exams. now im fifthteen and the only person in my class of 30 that would even consider doing a full days work.
as a student of shotokan i see on average, 14 young four to five year olds wanting to be jackie chan and who actully have the nerve to talk back to the sensi, then come the competitions the parents come in all guns blazing asking why their little kiddies cant go to it and win automatically.
My grandad and pa taught me most of what i know , hell it was my granda that gave me a love of all things military.
rant over
assultmarine

I think the only time I was ever really swatted was when I did something potentially dangerous as a kid, like running across the street without looking.

Otherwise, it's been more along the lines of:

"Don't touch that, it's hot" One warning, then they would let me touch it and learn for myself kind of thing.