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AlmightyWalrus wrote:

canthatenuff wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

canthatenuff wrote:I highly doubt Paladin deathstars are going to be common. Noobs will run them, but you wont see them played competitively. The problem is they are too slow and far too vulnerable to high str, low ap shooting. Instadeath to lascannons? melta? lol. Also, if the TWC are set up right, they shouldn't be enduring much storm bolter or psycannon fire. Remember the 20-24" charge radius. Furthermore, you guys are operating in a vaccuum. Don't forget the 15 missile launchers shooting at your Purifiers, etc. Also don't forget how many of your psychic abilities are being shut down.

Also remember the Interceptors zooming across the board smashing Rune Priests in the face with Daemonhammers, the dreadnoughts ripping transports to pieces, the dreadknights zooming across the board smashing Rune Priests in the face with Daemonhammers etc. Operating outside of a vacuum goes both ways.

Ahh yes and how many points are we playing? A Paladin deathstar, Interceptors, Dreadnoughts and Dreadknights? Buddy, you can't have everything.

And yet somehow the Space Wolves can afford 2 lords, a full unit of Thunderfire Cavalry, 3 units of Long Fangs, Rune Priests and troop choices in Gork knows how many transports? Good to see that the "not in a vacuum" still only affects the Grey Knights...

wolf lord fb/ss twm saga of the bear
wolf lord wc/ss twm
3xTWC pf/ss, ss/mb, ss
3x Long fangs w/ 2x5ML 1x3ML 2HB
3x 8 GH w/meltagun, motw, wolf standard, rhino
3x WG w/ combimelta and pf

1804 points, not a vacuum.

edit!
oops I forgot... take out MB and put in 2x Rune Priests 1 w/bolter. 1999 points. Still not a vacuum.

GK don't make that list not worth taking, Vulkan or any regular Marine TH/SS Terminator heavy list makes that list not worth taking.

canthatenuff wrote:

bedeporter wrote:Out of 12 games, at 1500 points, using two paladin squads, draigo, a librarian,10 purifiers and a strike squad, I've lost 1 game to guard and won the rest. I think people drastically underestimate how competitive paladins can be. If they're played properly that is. So it would be wise to consider how your TWC would fair if you did come up against a gk deathstar.

When you test for tournaments and what not, you test for what is common. Not outlier lists. Hit me up when you place high at a tournament with your Paladin list. Then tell me it is good. In fact, show me a recent army list where a footslogging infantry deathstar has placed high. I'd like to see some results.

Yeah, can a footslogging infantry deathstar unit be placed high?
However, Paladins can scout or outflank as fas as I remember. This makes them a more serious threat.

And deepstrike!

Units of GK are not that bad for a wolf star since they can't hammerhand and activate force weapons at the same time.

What gets really ugly is GK HQ chioces. An inquisitor with hammerhand, rad grenades, and psychotroke=psychotroke penalties, +1 str for the unit, -1T for the wolf star, and the unit the inquisitor is attached to can still activate force weapons that now wound the wolfstar on a 3+. At that point 5 purifiers charging with 15 attacks at I6 can curbstomp a wolfstar wounding them on a 3+ with force weapons they can still activate.

Wolfstars just need to be very cautious not to get baited into stomping a GK unit that will put them in range of being counter charged next turn by a GK HQ with the hammerhand/rad grenade combo.

schadenfreude wrote:Units of GK are not that bad for a wolf star since they can't hammerhand and activate force weapons at the same time.

What gets really ugly is GK HQ chioces. An inquisitor with hammerhand, rad grenades, and psychotroke=psychotroke penalties, +1 str for the unit, -1T for the wolf star, and the unit the inquisitor is attached to can still activate force weapons that now wound the wolfstar on a 3+. At that point 5 purifiers charging with 15 attacks at I6 can curbstomp a wolfstar wounding them on a 3+ with force weapons they can still activate.

Wolfstars just need to be very cautious not to get baited into stomping a GK unit that will put them in range of being counter charged next turn by a GK HQ with the hammerhand/rad grenade combo.

QFT. This is what I was talking about, most of the time while running a Wolfstar you can run on autopilot or at least feel like you are. But using a Wolfstar against GK just requires more thought, you need to avoid you're opponents baiting/slingshot attempts at all costs.

sourclams wrote:GK don't make that list not worth taking, Vulkan or any regular Marine TH/SS Terminator heavy list makes that list not worth taking.

lol, really? TH/SS don't stand a chance vs. Wolfstars... Maybe equal points, but no one takes 800 pts of TH/SS. Consider my Wolfstar:
215 PT Lord with Runic, SS, Claw
260 PT Lord with Runic, SS, TH, Bear
265 PT Unit with TH, Plain, Bombs, SS

So on the charge, which I will almost certainly get
3-4 power weap. wounds from the claw Lord
at least 4-5 regular wounds and 1 rend from the squad.

Statistically you should lose at LEAST 2 terminators and then you have to get hit by 11 TH attacks.... Ohh and your TH's cant instakill me....

I've faced Paladins a few times now, I haven't faced a full STR unit with a IC, etc, etc... But I am not too worried about TWC vs. GK. Just prioritize targets and don't go for their deathstar. TWC aren't going to destroy equal PTs assault units (generally). Use the maneuverability to pick on weak units.

the Saga of the Bear effects the Thunderpuppies?


I don't belive it does, TH/SS terminators are still an excellent counter to Thunderwolves.

You can't insta kill TWC with TH because they are T5 and TH are only S8, not because of Saga of the Bear.

That being said, I have to admit TH/SS are a decent counter to TWC but only in massive numbers. Small 5 man units in LRs just don't cut the mustard against TWC. I have played many games both with TWC against TH/SS and with TH/SS against TWC. To beat down the TWC you need to put some wounds on them with shooting prior to charging, at least 8 TH/SS terminators and having Lysander around usually helps. Lysander CAN insta kill TWC because the Hammer of Dorn is S10.

But I, and the thread digress. TWC are still worth taking even with the advent of Grey Knights.

right

silly me