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well, any army that brings significant numbers of tanks to a 1k game isn't going to be a balanced list.


CSM do have decent troops i suppose.

Grey Templar wrote:and the few codeices whos troops are steller are the ones who rock at 1k.

everyone else struggles.


my list of armies that have steller troops and as such do well at low points values

SWs
BAs
IG
Orks
GKs(terminators as troops!!! game can't be below 500 points for this)
Tyranids(tyranid prime and millions of gaunts)

With Guard, it is more their HS and Elites that give them kick, not their troops. Good troops, but by no means exceptional.

but at low poitns they don't need their tanks.

they can get tons of heavy weapons in their troops section and will never NEED their other slots for speciality jobs(unlike other armies that often only ave anti-tank in their HS or Elite sections like T'au)

Grey Templar wrote:but at low poitns they don't need their tanks.

they can get tons of heavy weapons in their troops section and will never NEED their other slots for speciality jobs(unlike other armies that often only ave anti-tank in their HS or Elite sections like T'au)

Did you REALLY just say Guard don't need their tanks? Without tanks they are amongst the worst armies.

P.S. the species/empire is called the Tau, their home planet is called T'au. There's a difference.

tut tut, picky picky

im2randomghgh wrote:Did you REALLY just say Guard don't need their tanks? Without tanks they are amongst the worst armies.

Ever seen Ailaros' foot Guard? Frankly, Foot IG is frighteningly good but, like all horde armies, suffer in tournies because of the time limit.

Guard certaintly don't NEED their tanks.


all an army needs is a way to deal with Tanks AND infantry.

guard can do both in their troops slots.


also, Mech Vets don't need tanks. they have Valks and Vendettas.

Grey Templar wrote:Guard certaintly don't NEED their tanks.


all an army needs is a way to deal with Tanks AND infantry.

guard can do both in their troops slots.


also, Mech Vets don't need tanks. they have Valks and Vendettas.

Just about all you need is VoF and AoE to deal with Guard. A crisis commander Shas'El with AFP CIB TA and MT can send 5 bs5 shots plus LBT at a guard squad per turn. Or switch the AFP for a BC and total 8 shots. So expensive and horde focused that it would be useless against a vehicle, but a frightening foe for horde Sloggin' armies.

If your troops selections are good then sure, 1000 points can work great for you. If you have to dump half your points into filling the basic FOC requirement with mediocre or overpriced limited choices from an army that has no good troop option or no cheap HQ worth a damn ingame, that relies on EL/FA/HS for most of their work getting done, its limitings not having the points left over for your good units.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:and the few codeices whos troops are steller are the ones who rock at 1k.

everyone else struggles.


my list of armies that have steller troops and as such do well at low points values

SWs
BAs
IG
Orks
GKs(terminators as troops!!! game can't be below 500 points for this)
Tyranids(tyranid prime and millions of gaunts)

With Guard, it is more their HS and Elites that give them kick, not their troops. Good troops, but by no means exceptional.

Guard Elite? Outside of Marbo there is not much of note.
While IG heavy suppot is great, they are not mandatory for certain armies.

I bring 3 triple Dis Cannon Ravagers at 1k points and everything infront of them dies.
I bring 3 triple Dis Cannon Ravagers at 2k points and they support the army.
As someone previously pointed out, at lower points values powerful combinations become dominating and unstoppable.

Jackster wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:and the few codeices whos troops are steller are the ones who rock at 1k.

everyone else struggles.


my list of armies that have steller troops and as such do well at low points values

SWs
BAs
IG
Orks
GKs(terminators as troops!!! game can't be below 500 points for this)
Tyranids(tyranid prime and millions of gaunts)

With Guard, it is more their HS and Elites that give them kick, not their troops. Good troops, but by no means exceptional.

Guard Elite? Outside of Marbo there is not much of note.
While IG heavy suppot is great, they are not mandatory for certain armies.

Ogryns are good units-too much cash to be worth it though.

Also, IG biggest advantage by far is being able to field super cheap artillery and tanks, which are HS.

if Ogryns were abit cheaper they would be an ok unit.

possably a good compliment to a power blob list.

The greatest IG strength is the cost-effective troop selection, with cheap transport options, plenty of special heavy weapons for cheap.
If Ogryns can take power weapons...

Jackster wrote:The greatest IG strength is the cost-effective troop selection, with cheap transport options, plenty of special heavy weapons for cheap.
If Ogryns can take power weapons...

/want powered bayonet upgrade

"1 out of every 3 ogryns may take a Powered Bayonet"

an ogryn with this weapon counts as being armed with a power weapon in CC.

DarkHound wrote:Tyranids do not perform well at low points levels because they can't include proper anti-tank support

What's your reasoning here?

In 1000 points, Tyranids can take two pairs of either Hive Guard of Zoanthropes for under 250 points. That leaves 750 for incredibly cheap gaunts, another synapse unit if you didn't take Zoanthropes or some other big hitter. HQ as a cheap prime. Two pairs of Zoanthropes or Hive Guard is more than enough to handle the amount of armour you'd generally see at 1000pts.

Four or five Hive Guard aren't going to come close to cutting it against:

Daemon Prince, MoN Wings, Nurgle's Rot, 165
Dreadnought, MM, Heavy Flamer, 105
5 Possessed, IoN, Rhino, 215
5 Plague Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Rhino, 170
5 Noise Marines, 5 Sonic Blasters, Rhino with Havoc Launcher, 175
Predator, Lascannons, 165
995

And my lists aren't really all that hard.

DarkHound wrote:Four or five Hive Guard aren't going to come close to cutting it against:

Daemon Prince, MoN Wings, Nurgle's Rot, 165
Dreadnought, MM, Heavy Flamer, 105
5 Possessed, IoN, Rhino, 215
5 Plague Marines, 2 Meltaguns, Rhino, 170
5 Noise Marines, 5 Sonic Blasters, Rhino with Havoc Launcher, 175
Predator, Lascannons, 165
995

And my lists aren't really all that hard.

That's... not a lot of armour for two pairs of hive guard to deal with.

Two Hive Guard will deal just over a single pen per turn to the Rhino. It would take them two turns to kill or immobilize one. Given that they only have a 24" range, and the Rhinos move 12, they don't have two turns to deal the damage before the Rhino sets up its cargo. They can't suppress all my armor. They also can't hurt the DP or the Predator.

One of my most common opponents is a Tyranid player. You can't fill all your roles and have synapse coverage at 1k. If you try to bring two broods of Hive Guard and Guants, I just bring down the Hive Tyrant or Tervigon and the whole army falls apart.