Wayland Games' Response to GW's New Policy

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**AesSedai**

@ Deathgod: Attributing truly altruistic thinking to GW is laughable. They are motivated only by their bottom line. They care about brick and mortar stores only insofar as it results in their increasing profits; that is to say their actions are entirely self-serving.

**Slacker**

I'm going to take a wild and crazy stab here, and think that Wayland has done exactly what I mused someone SHOULD do in another thread here: Secure supply from an outside distributor, like whatever the UK's version of Alliance Games is, that Games Workshop cannot impose its trade terms on, at which point they will begin offering sales again to the rest of the world. If you guys got that idea from me, I totally want a box of free stuff in the mail. If it's a case of like-minded genius thinking alike, well, huzzah to you, sir. I would imagine that Wayland's discount (unless they've made arrangements from that new distributor) may be a little different when's all said and done, but it will still be way different from taking it up the pooper from GW. In the meantime, you guys should (and seem to be looking into) taking them into court to actually confront them over the illegality of their attempt to change the trade conditions. Again, huzzah to you sir.

**Samus_aran115**

That's great. If GW's stockists have a problem with their policy, they're more likely to listen to them than us.

**Slipstream**

It's great to hear from an independent, more need to follow suit if GW are going to change. The way I read it is that they are furious at being slurred by GW and their business practice. I'd suggest that there is a veiled threat in their response though no idea what it is. Even places like Wayland must really feel the drop in sales each time a price hike is announced; then add in the ban on the southern hemisphere. To all those who say that they'll continue buying but grumble about it, when is your cut off point? For many of us it wil be now. Will yours be next year?

**Smacks**

Big P wrote:Personally I imagine its just to try and raise sales in their stores, nothing as gallant as 'saving the hobby'. What alot of old balls.

Agreed

Mark Wells wrote:As you know, we introduce people to the Games Workshop hobby of collecting, painting and gaming with Citadel miniatures through our Hobby Centres and local independent trade accounts. Games Workshop Hobby Centres run introductory games and painting sessions, beginner lessons, hobby activities and events. We provide all these services free of charge. We only recover this investment if customers then buy products from us.

I read this as... If you walk into a Games Workshop store, a red-shirt will hassle you, get you to roll a few dice and then try to pressure you into buying something, where upon Games Workshop will make 300% profit.

What a load of bulls**t Games Workshop never encouraged the hobby for me. I only ever took part in 1 game there and it was very disappointing (I was given 10 plastic grots to command). I bought 40k (2nd edition) from Argos cause it was £10 cheaper there. That about sums it up, all GW Stores ever did was overcharge me.

**CX316**

DeathGod wrote:
Kirasu wrote:I dont think the problem is really with the ban of sale across oceans.. Im of the opinion that brick and mortar stores should be protected at all costs because without them there is no hobby.

But the real problem seems to be the crazy prices they charge to canada/australia and those customers have no alternative now. As an american I couldnt care less not buying from wayland or maelstrom because our prices = Uk prices and I think it will help our hobby here if others cant buy from there either

Its just not fair that the other countries have to pay insane prices

/ramble on

What is funny to me is how people from Canada and Australia bitch and moan (and I'm not picking on those two countries, they are just the two examples given in this thread) about prices as if it is the evil greedy corporation trying to remove their customers' kidneys in order to sell on the black market. As if the local environment has nothing to do whatsoever with the pricing involved.

As an American I have nothing but anecdotal evidence, and I freely admit that, but let's look at a few things:

1) For people who don't know, Phoenix is a major destination for Canadians during the wintertime seeking to flee that evil substance called snow. Many of them own a second home here and live in it for 4-6 months of the year. We call them "snowbirds." Now I have worked retail my entire life, and I'm pretty damn good at it. Right now I manage a Famous Footwear in a suburb of Phoenix. Canadian laws are a complete laughing stock to us, both my company and my Canadian customers, and are responsible for maybe 15% of my gross sales. Why? Protectionist tariffs. A pair of shoes with an MSRP of 120 dollars sells for $60-80 in my store (I'm using a Skechers Shape-Ups shoe as my example if you need to know). It sells for $260 in Canada. There is a thriving "trade" of smuggling commercial goods from America to Canada - "trade" in quotes because its not for resale, but to simply avoid having to sell a body part to be able to buy a pair of shoes.

2) I don't know as much about Australian laws or economic details, but I ask this as an example of the economic climate: What is the minimum wage in Australia? I could be wrong, and I welcome any Aussie to correct me if I am, but I have been told its something rediculous like $17 or $18 an hour. Labor is just one cost of many involved in running a retail establishment, but that is almost 250% higher than labor costs in America. What other rediculous costs are involved operating a retail business in Australia where you must import your merchandise?

And so priving is what it is in those countries. Thank God that here in America we have our own manufacturing plant and can avoid such rediculousness affecting our pricing. All we have is the "normal" GW pricing SNAFUs (which I personally don't mind, being a free market guy - if I think they get out of control I'll just stop buying). It must be hell on earth trying to run an independent business when you're own government hamstrings you so severely economically, but add to that the ability for your customers to go online and buy the same merchandise for - what? 60% less than what you are forced to sell at? 70% less?

I'm all for this new GW policy, because, contrary to popular belief, it is extremely altruistic on GWs behalf. GW has ALWAYS tried to protect the brick and mortar stores (argue about motivation behind that somewhere else, I'm rambling too much already), when they would sell far more product with a laissez-faire attitude to internet sales. If Wayland and Warstore and whoever was allowed to sell to Canada, Australia, and whomever GW would turn over a far higher quantity of product. Instead, they sacrifice sales in order to help their business partners (both independent retailers and company retailers) stay solvent.

Does it suck for Canadian and Australian hobbyists? You bet. Is pricing of GW product high regardless of where you buy them? Meh, maybe. But if you Canadians want to be able to buy affordable models (or shoes, for that matter) casts your votes come election time for politicians who will stop dicking around with the free market. Australians, I don't know as much about your situation, but I'd wager its pretty similar. See to your own houses before you start casting stones at others...

/ramble off

Nope, we get screwed by pretty much everyone for everything here BECAUSE THEY CAN.

We pay like $110 for PS3 and Xbox games for crap's sake. Sure we have high minimum wage compared to the US, but that's because the US minimum wage is laughably pathetic, and we don't do tips.

Try actually researching stuff before you start mouthing off telling people to "fix their own house"

**LordofHats**

I actually called BS on the "services free of charge." The GW I've been to charges for all those services and then says you get a "free kit".

**augustus5**

DeathGod wrote:
Kirasu wrote:I dont think the problem is really with the ban of sale across oceans.. Im of the opinion that brick and mortar stores should be protected at all costs because without them there is no hobby.

But the real problem seems to be the crazy prices they charge to canada/australia and those customers have no alternative now. As an american I couldnt care less not buying from wayland or maelstrom because our prices = Uk prices and I think it will help our hobby here if others cant buy from there either

Its just not fair that the other countries have to pay insane prices

/ramble on

What is funny to me is how people from Canada and Australia bitch and moan (and I'm not picking on those two countries, they are just the two examples given in this thread) about prices as if it is the evil greedy corporation trying to remove their customers' kidneys in order to sell on the black market. As if the local environment has nothing to do whatsoever with the pricing involved.

As an American I have nothing but anecdotal evidence, and I freely admit that, but let's look at a few things:

1) For people who don't know, Phoenix is a major destination for Canadians during the wintertime seeking to flee that evil substance called snow. Many of them own a second home here and live in it for 4-6 months of the year. We call them "snowbirds." Now I have worked retail my entire life, and I'm pretty damn good at it. Right now I manage a Famous Footwear in a suburb of Phoenix. Canadian laws are a complete laughing stock to us, both my company and my Canadian customers, and are responsible for maybe 15% of my gross sales. Why? Protectionist tariffs. A pair of shoes with an MSRP of 120 dollars sells for $60-80 in my store (I'm using a Skechers Shape-Ups shoe as my example if you need to know). It sells for $260 in Canada. There is a thriving "trade" of smuggling commercial goods from America to Canada - "trade" in quotes because its not for resale, but to simply avoid having to sell a body part to be able to buy a pair of shoes.

2) I don't know as much about Australian laws or economic details, but I ask this as an example of the economic climate: What is the minimum wage in Australia? I could be wrong, and I welcome any Aussie to correct me if I am, but I have been told its something rediculous like $17 or $18 an hour. Labor is just one cost of many involved in running a retail establishment, but that is almost 250% higher than labor costs in America. What other rediculous costs are involved operating a retail business in Australia where you must import your merchandise?

And so priving is what it is in those countries. Thank God that here in America we have our own manufacturing plant and can avoid such rediculousness affecting our pricing. All we have is the "normal" GW pricing SNAFUs (which I personally don't mind, being a free market guy - if I think they get out of control I'll just stop buying). It must be hell on earth trying to run an independent business when you're own government hamstrings you so severely economically, but add to that the ability for your customers to go online and buy the same merchandise for - what? 60% less than what you are forced to sell at? 70% less?

I'm all for this new GW policy, because, contrary to popular belief, it is extremely altruistic on GWs behalf. GW has ALWAYS tried to protect the brick and mortar stores (argue about motivation behind that somewhere else, I'm rambling too much already), when they would sell far more product with a laissez-faire attitude to internet sales. If Wayland and Warstore and whoever was allowed to sell to Canada, Australia, and whomever GW would turn over a far higher quantity of product. Instead, they sacrifice sales in order to help their business partners (both independent retailers and company retailers) stay solvent.

Does it suck for Canadian and Australian hobbyists? You bet. Is pricing of GW product high regardless of where you buy them? Meh, maybe. But if you Canadians want to be able to buy affordable models (or shoes, for that matter) casts your votes come election time for politicians who will stop dicking around with the free market. Australians, I don't know as much about your situation, but I'd wager its pretty similar. See to your own houses before you start casting stones at others...

/ramble off

I agree with so much of your post DeathGod. The one point where I disagree with you is that GW has always worked to protect brick and mortar stores. Maybe their own hobby centers, but not independents. When GW built a store in St. Louis, which lasted a few years, they went out of their way to hurt the indies that were already in town and selling their products for twenty years. They were looking out for number one. Is that a terrible thing? No, every business should be looking out for their bottom line to an extent. But these indie shops were the places where the hobby was fostered and grown here in St. Louis, and in the end, they are still here and GW's Hobby Center is gone.

**Samus_aran115**

Smacks wrote:
I read this as... If you walk into a Games Workshop store, a red-shirt will hassle you, get you to roll a few dice and then try to pressure you into buying something, where upon Games Workshop will make 300% profit.

What a load of bulls**t Games Workshop never encouraged the hobby for me. I only ever took part in 1 game there and it was very disappointing (I was given 10 plastic grots to command). I bought 40k (2nd edition) from Argos cause it was £10 cheaper there. That about sums it up, all GW Stores ever did was overcharge me.

Agreed. I enjoy walking in and playing a game, but at least at a FLGS, I'm not pressured to spend money. They make you feel like a criminal at GW if you're not buying, playing or painting something. There's just a very snobby, 'get out or spend money' kind of vibe.

By the way, smacks. I just found out where your avatar is from. It's a great game, but I hate how Advanced Wars always has some douche-bag kid who thinks he's black in it

**Slacker**

I've walked into a GW branded store a grand total of twice in my 15 year 'career' with Warhammer, and both times made it absolutely clear to the guy behind the counter that (at the time) I managed an independent brick and mortar and I was just doing some comparison. That got them to leave me alone, the second time I actually got into an interesting conversation with the manager. I imagine your mileage may vary.

**Smacks**

Samus_aran115 wrote:By the way, smacks. I just found out where your avatar is from. It's a great game, but I hate how Advanced Wars always has some douche-bag kid who thinks he's black in it

Hoho "Fetch the plates, you just got served"

Actually Jake isn't in the first 2. You just have Andy who is still borderline slowed, but he's not very hip-hop... more like pee-the-bed than P-diddy.

I seem to be off topic

*cough*

Tut tut Games Worksop, charging Kanbei prices... What would Hachi say

**CX316**

Slacker wrote:I've walked into a GW branded store a grand total of twice in my 15 year 'career' with Warhammer, and both times made it absolutely clear to the guy behind the counter that (at the time) I managed an independent brick and mortar and I was just doing some comparison. That got them to leave me alone, the second time I actually got into an interesting conversation with the manager. I imagine your mileage may vary.

Oh definitely. The GW store in the same mall as my work has gone through a fair few managers in the time since I started 40K in high school, and I was always encouraged into the game by the friendly managers who would talk to me about stuff if the store wasn't busy, etc. But when they changed managers to one of the "buy something or I kick you out for loitering" guys, I quit the game, then ended up back in again years later when playing DOW got me interested in checking out new models and ended up getting into a conversation with the new manager who again was friendly and helped me with stuff like simple tips with the painting and troubleshooting when I got dodgy metal kits that needed.... creative fixes to get them to stay in one piece, or even just sharing stories of the dumbest ways we'd nearly maimed ourselves with modelling equipment (for me it was nearly getting myself in the eye when my pin vice kinda... exploded).

And when that manager left it coincided with me being less able to afford to buy a model a week, so the only purchases I've made since have been Horus Heresy books, so it seems how much I spend is linked directly to how friendly the staff are at the time

**Sethorly**

If I had bothered to work out how much a decent WHFB army would have costed before I (recently) started the game, I probably wouldn't have started at all.

It's not that I'm poor, it's just an immensely expensive game and I could have spent that money on shed-loads of excellent PC games with multiplayer to game with friends online.

Bricks and Mortar GW shops are embarrassing places to go into, especially with an overenthusiastic sales-pressured target-hounded employee breathing down your neck or doing some sort of clown impression.

My point is that I doubt it's the shops that dictate new entrants to Warhammer, it's rather word-of-mouth and (limited by) the gad-damned COST.

**General Hobbs**

We pay like $110 for PS3 and Xbox games for crap's sake. Sure we have high minimum wage compared to the US, but that's because the US minimum wage is laughably pathetic, and we don't do tips.

Just some minimum wage facts for you.

Minimum wage started due to racism. Black workers would take less money for jobs and white workers got upset, so they got their politicians to institute min wage. Employers back then ( hold that thought) would rather pay a white person the min wage amount rather than a black.

The vast amount of min wage workers are part timers, side jobs etc. Hardly anyone supports or maintains a family on minimum wage.

When minimum wage is raised, unemployment goes up. Smaller companies cannot afford to pay more. The people let go are usually older folks, and blacks (again) and other minorities. Employers would rather pay hardworking, energetic people than older folks and the mentally challenged, and of course, racism still rears its ugly head.

A large segement of illegal immigrants work outside the rules, for wages under minimum wage. If they were all legalized and had to earn min wage, you'd see unemployment go up, and more people seeking entitlements like food stamps and medicaid etc.

So feel free to call our minimum wage laws pathetic. They hurt business and society in many ways.

Sorry to thread jump. Move along, there's nothing here to see. These are not the droids you are looking for.

**Slacker**

Of course, the flipside of that is that if the free market was free to determine minimum wage, millions upon millions of Americans would have to work 80 hours a week to simply be afford to be able to live. Hell, in parts of the country they have to do that already, because minimum wage isn't adjusted to cost of living by region.

But, way off topic.

**Red**

@DeathGod

Um bro we have about a 10% mark up on luxury items in Aus so if you look at any of our independents you'll see a 10-20& mark up on anything other than GW they sell. this "issue" with them having to charge us down here 200% seems to be a GW only problem. All the independents seem to be able to keep their doors open with selling other product rangers with in 10% of the world standard.

just saying...

**Trasvi**

@Red
I went to the customs and imports section of the Australain Government website yesterday, and all I could find was a 5% import tax on scale models and toys. Add 10% GST, but take away the VAT, and Australia should be paying less than UK retail price.
Again, Wayland can find a way to ship figures halfway around the world, at a discount on an already lowered price, and still make a profit. If GW can't make a profit selling something for 2x the price, they are doing something seriously wrong.

@General Hobbs, and other people discussing wage
Obviously, the number on our wage is significantly higher than the number on your wage. That doesn't make us 'richer' than you within our own country (our exchange rate does in your country tho

). We earn twice as much, and everything costs twice as much, so it evens out, right? Also, minimum wage isn't really useful in this discussion except for working out how much GW pays its redshirts

. Average wage (however poor a measure that might be) is 67k in Australia. Some studies indicate a 'comfortable standard of living' wage for a single person is 40k, though you would need a lot more than that to support a family in an suburban area (around 80k for a 2*2 family)

I'm not defending GW's actions in any way, but the trade embargo does in effect force our prices (as a % of our average wage) back in line with the rest of the world.
Given that consumers expect imports to be cheaper with a strong dollar, whether bringing us in line is the right thing to do remains to be seen.

**frozenwastes**

DeathGod wrote:
I'm all for this new GW policy, because, contrary to popular belief, it is extremely altruistic on GWs behalf. GW has ALWAYS tried to protect the brick and mortar stores (argue about motivation behind that somewhere else, I'm rambling too much already), when they would sell far more product with a laissez-faire attitude to internet sales. If Wayland and Warstore and whoever was allowed to sell to Canada, Australia, and whomever GW would turn over a far higher quantity of product. Instead, they sacrifice sales in order to help their business partners (both independent retailers and company retailers) stay solvent.

No, an altruistic approach to the independant retailers of the world would be to pick their currency and sell in that currency so everyone is on a level playing field. If import fees and shipping drives up the price in some locations like Australia and Canada, let that be what it is. Trying to enforce some arbitrary manufacturer's suggested retail price is not altruistic at all.

**Orlanth**

In the meantime, we believe after the announced terms are implemented we shall be able to continue to offer all of our loyal customers the same product range that we offer today. There may be a small lead time to implement but we've been given a rather short period to react. We will comply fully and completely with the new terms and conditions of sale imposed upon us and will not contravene them in any capacity whatsoever (albeit we would not wish that to be seen as acceptance of their legality), all we seek to achieve is that customers both old and new are able to benefit from our view of the market wherever they are located. We all love our hobby.

I read this as, we have seen our lawyers. So long as we follow the trade restriction to the letter we can do as we please.
i.e set up a second 'shipping' company with a club account. Customers join the club which has a UK address, customers buy from the club with a UK based account and is thus a UK based sale. The club then ships the items wherever they are to go as a completely seperate transaction, its not a resale because it is done under the privilege of a membership club.

**Slacker**

Or, Wayland sets up a second company that serves as its reciever of goods from Games Workshop. That company then sells items to Wayland, acting as a distributor, and then Wayland is free to sell to the world at large, as it didn't recieve the product directly from GW-in essence becoming its own Alliance.

**Trasvi**

The main reasons Australian (and other) customers are benefiting from the current arrangement are:
1) A strong dollar
2) Don't have to pay VAT
3) Money we save on VAT subsidises/cancels shipping fee.

Any post-forwarding service would incur VAT and so not be as cheap.

Actually... it would be Wayland selling to the 'club', so they could sell at cost price... hmmm..

I do agree that is does sound suspiciously like Wayland isn't going to fully comply.

**notprop**

I could see GW not supplying wayland in these circumstances. They don't have to sell it to them afterall and other companies will pick up the slack - ala Maelstrom/Battlefront.

**Slacker**

And then Wayland can sue GW as Games Workshop isn't meeting its terms and conditions. Remember, technically Wayland is still meeting its contracted obligation by not selling directly to the southern hemisphere. If GW pulls the 'you're skating around our rules' card in court, Wayland can pull the "You're actually trying to hit us with a contract that violates about fifteen different rules of free trade' right back.

**Goliath**

AesSedai wrote:@ Deathgod: Attributing truly altruistic thinking to GW is laughable. They are motivated only by their bottom line. They care about brick and mortar stores only insofar as it results in their increasing profits; that is to say their actions are entirely self-serving.

What a novel concept.

A public Limited company, trying to make money for it's shareholders!?!? What is this? I mean its almost as if they are a normal company!?!

Seriously, GW is a multinational company, that has to try and make revenue for it's share-holders, why do people seem to act surprised when they take actions that seem "only motivated by their bottom line" when that is all that motivates them.

The times when they were a friendly hobby company in the 1980s have gone, it is a company that exists to make money, so saying "Oh Noes, that wasn't a very hobby friendly thing to do!" makes no difference whatsoever, because the "hobby" aspect is just a neat little side project that helps make people buy more products.

**H.B.M.C.**

DeathGod wrote:What is funny to me is how people .. bitch and moan ... as if it is the evil greedy corporation trying to remove their customers' kidneys in order to sell on the black market. As if the local environment has nothing to do whatsoever with the pricing involved.

Hyperbolic strawman.

DeathGod wrote:... I have nothing but anecdotal evidence...

Anecdotal evidence isn't.

DeathGod wrote:What is the minimum wage in Australia?

Irrelevant.

**ph34r**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
DeathGod wrote:What is the minimum wage in Australia?

Irrelevant.

Basically, the global economy shifted away from the USD being strong, and now everyone in Australia feels that they should have their prices reduced, while wages have stayed the same.

**Orlanth**

Slacker wrote:Or, Wayland sets up a second company that serves as its reciever of goods from Games Workshop. That company then sells items to Wayland, acting as a distributor, and then Wayland is free to sell to the world at large, as it didn't recieve the product directly from GW-in essence becoming its own Alliance.

That can be stopped as it is a direct resale, if the second party is purely a distributor as would happen with a club then Weyland is only selling within the geographical bounds set to it.

**Makaleth**

ph34r wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
DeathGod wrote:What is the minimum wage in Australia?

Irrelevant.

Basically, the global economy shifted away from the USD being strong, and now everyone in Australia feels that they should have their prices reduced, while wages have stayed the same.

Well... that's only partially true.

The AUD has increased of it's own accord as well (not just against the USD). It tracks well against all of the major currencies.

The REASON that we feel that Australian prices on a lot of things should be reduced is because it costs Australian Retailers (GW being the example talked about at the moment) a lot less to buy the product now that their AUD buys more stock. That's how prices work.

The problem with GW (and many other places) is that they set RRP in a country bubble without trying to price worldwide. People in Australia are flocking online to buy everything now (because of the price discrepancy)

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And why would we care about minimum wage/average wage or anything else. Money is a traded commodity and this is a product that can be bought and sold freely (even with this embargo).

It's just not the most relevant part of the pricing equation (the underlying cost of the product is).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Trasvi wrote:@Red
@General Hobbs, and other people discussing wage
Obviously, the number on our wage is significantly higher than the number on your wage. That doesn't make us 'richer' than you within our own country (our exchange rate does in your country tho ). We earn twice as much, and everything costs twice as much, so it evens out, right? Also, minimum wage isn't really useful in this discussion except for working out how much GW pays its redshirts . Average wage (however poor a measure that might be) is 67k in Australia. Some studies indicate a 'comfortable standard of living' wage for a single person is 40k, though you would need a lot more than that to support a family in an suburban area (around 80k for a 2*2 family)

I'm not defending GW's actions in any way, but the trade embargo does in effect force our prices (as a % of our average wage) back in line with the rest of the world.
Given that consumers expect imports to be cheaper with a strong dollar, whether bringing us in line is the right thing to do remains to be seen.

Not sure how we keep coming back to average wage... In this world money has a tangible value (set by exchange rates that fluctuate). This combined with the fact that countries can trade between each other means that prices are coming slowly into alignment all over the world for most goods.

There are reasons why there would be differences.

- Geographic location: This is almost entirely not the case, as it costs almost nothing now a days to post and distribute products due to the sheer scale of the postal systems

- Running Costs: Yes, there could be some differences due to the cost of staff and rent etc. But as we are talking the equivalent of a 100% markup (and the wage and rental costs are closer than that... much closer!)

- Monopolistic Price Distortions: IE restrictions in sale, artificial taxes and import duties, etc. This is what I care about at the moment. The main differences in the prices are GW saying there will be and trying to force that into the only line of supply. It shouldn't work (as supply cannot be curtailed that easily) but to think that they can do that without some ill will (and to think that it is in the best interest of the company... no GW B&M, they will benefit) is ludicrous.

- There are heaps more... but not really relevant here (as in no one is talking or caring about them)

Also, just for people that keep bringing up wages.
Yes, Australia has a higher average and minimum wage than the US and UK... However, taxes are higher (much higher... close to 50% in some cases) and employer benefits such as paid insurance (health, dental etc) are almost non existent. The relevant issue is disposable income... which is much lower than people think as our central bank has interest rates at the HIGHEST level in the western world (that I know of).

**adamantium|wang**

DeathGod wrote:
I don't know as much about Australian laws or economic details

General Hobbs wrote:
Minimum wage started due to racism.

It's nice to see the quality of this place hasn't diminished while I've been away.

**CadianCommander**

- Geographic location: This is almost entirely not the case, as it costs almost nothing now a days to post and distribute products due to the sheer scale of the postal systems

Ha ha, yeah okay. I used to work for an international courier. And by that I mean we used to shift everything from big bulk crates of industrial equipment down to personal packages of socks and undies. Very, very expensive.

But still doesn't account for what we're getting slugged by GW.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh! And thank you Waylander. Getting my new Valk for about $40 instead of over $100!

(along with lots of other vehicles. My Cadians all look very excited. Or maybe that's stunned cos they're sitting next to my b/f's necrons).