Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Identity - erm, you do realise that Servitors are a SEPARATE elite choice, and are in fact a unit in their own right?

So they always give up 1KP themselves.

Does a Sarge become an IC when the rest of the unit dies? No? Guess its not the same situation at all then....

CGM - incorrect. Or rather, irrelevant. The3re is no rule, anywhere in the Retinue rules, that states that a retinue has to be optional. You cannot describe such as being a condition, because it simply doesnt exist.

The thunderfire and techmarine are NOT seperate units. A thunderfire isn't a servitor; it is part of the unit along with the techmarine. You can't take a thunderfire by itself and it cannot be by itself without becoming destroyed. Servitors just become stupidly useless.

The whole retinue rule is irrelevant to this scenario because it is not a retinue. There is no rule remotely linking retinue to the thunderfire, so calling me out for irrelevancy is a bit hypocritical, no?

-cgmckenzie

Sorry, what? I was pointing out to Identity Zero that they were wildly wrong (by saying servitors dont give a kill point) which is why i was talking about Servitors. Its kinda clear in the post....

No, it is not hypocritical. You made up a rule that stated a retinue has to be non-optional, and no such rule exists. Do you accept that that is a complete fabrication? If not, page and paragraph.

What rule, precisely, were you expecting to find? If something fits the definition of a retinue, that is all thats needed. You dont need a rule "linking" them to it....that would be redundant, no?

If the unit had the same rule that the guardian weapons team had regarding how to deal with the support weapon, I could easily see the unit only giving one KP, however it's really, really hard to side with either option atm.

The closest thing I can find in the same codex is the sgt chronus guy who upgrades a vehicle. You get 1 kp if he dies in the vehicle wreck, 2 kp if he makes it out alive.

Sgt Chronus becomes a new model when the tank is destroyed but the techmarine just loses a really big gun.

It counts as artillery, not an upgrade, not retinue, not joined IC.

-cgmckenzie

A Thunderfire Cannon is an Artillery unit, comprised of a gun model and a crew model. The crew model gains the Independent Character rule if the gun is destroyed. There is only ever one unit, and one KP. You need to kill both of them to get it.

When you buy a TFC its unit composition is,

- 1 techmarine gunner
- 1 TFC

As i see it, those 2 models are the unit.

If you destroy the TFC have you destroyed the TFC unit (1 techmarine gunner, 1 TFC) ? no.
All you have done is removed a model so far, and the TFC unit is still around albeit minus the cannon.

No-one would argue a KP for killing out a clawed fiend, leaving a beastmaster behind as the beast unit is still alive, albeit minus the beast(s).

The techmarine does not gain IC status once the cannon is destroyed. He had it all along, he just cannot benefit from it while he has a cannon in tow, meaning he is not an upgrade charecter that starts counting as an IC one the cannon is killed. He is an IC that doesnt benefit from being an IC until the cannon is destroyed.

The TFC unit is not a retinue, if it were, the text about the techmarine not being able to beneifit from being an IC would be redundant. Right?

juraigamer wrote:The closest thing I can find in the same codex is the sgt chronus guy who upgrades a vehicle. You get 1 kp if he dies in the vehicle wreck, 2 kp if he makes it out alive.

Actualy you always get both, even if he dies he gains the IC rule, making it a retinue

It's one Kill Point.

The Gunner and Cannon comprise the unit, when they are both killed that unit gives up one KP.

I fail to see the purpose for overcomplicating this.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

juraigamer wrote:The closest thing I can find in the same codex is the sgt chronus guy who upgrades a vehicle. You get 1 kp if he dies in the vehicle wreck, 2 kp if he makes it out alive.

Actualy you always get both, even if he dies he gains the IC rule, making it a retinue

I thought the new tau drone FAQ was precedence for making it if he died in the vehicle it wasn't a kp.