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The revelation is more to do with it being unique. Though it would have been a real 'out there' piece if it hadn't come from the Emperor/Primarchs/marines at all...

Grey Templar wrote:page 7, 3rd paragraph.

Indeed. I never understood the whole, 'they wear Grey Armour, or they are the first Grey Knights so they most use the same geneseed' argument. More likely imo is that Garro & co' wear unpainted 'grey' armour at the moment to separate themselves from their former legions. At an obvious guess, this practice would go on to be a trademark of the Grey Knights.

Bishop99 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Bishop99 wrote:um if you read the Herasy novels the first SM used by the first Inq was an ex luna wolf so i thinks its very likey Horus is the gene father of the GreyKnights infact in the newest novel he even wears gray armour

If you read the Horus Heresy novels you will know that everything you have just said is speculation and has not actually been said in the text

QFT. None of that is even hinted at. Grey armor? They had very pale Grey armor, same with The Death Guard with a marble color, The Word Bearers with a darker shade, and The Iron Warriors, who I assume actually have the closest shade.

read the last remembrancer and you will see what im talking about Iacton Qruze is an ex luna wolf captian that is sent on acting secret order from the Sigilite and put in charge of a secret base close to titan...... he has his armour striped and it is now gray ...... the sigilites mark just happenes to be a large I....... i think this hint pretty strongly that the Gray Knights gene father is Horus...... also couple that with the fact that the Gk have a mystery box that only the grand master can know the contents of.......


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and where is it ever hinted that its the Emperor

How is it hinted? Garro, a Deathguard, also went off on missions for the Sigilitte, so by that logic it's just as possible that it was Mortarions geneseed. But that's not proof of any sort, thats just saying that a potential Grey Knight founder had grey armor, not that Horus's geneseed was used. Why would it be anyway? Hes a traitor, corrupted by Chaos, and has no real connection to The Grey Knights.
Grey Templar has provided sufficient evidence to directly support their geneseed being from The Emperor. To be fair, there's no stand-out candidates amongst the Primarchs.

The revelations of Garro and Cruze suggest that Grey Knight geneseed doesn't come from any one specific source, but is something they mixed up out of some leftovers, just like many second founding chapters. In this case, the leftovers being from the people Malcador identified as folks he wanted, and possibly other stuff they had laying around the labs.

Hmmm, less a revelation more an assumption. Garro et al may have been the founders but the connection between them and the Grey Knights is likely only professional, not likely genetic too. Think about it; you've built an army of daemonhunters but you're still gonna need someone to teach them the trade. 'The 8 masters' are amongst the first and foremost to experience facing this new heresy and to remain pure doing so consistently. They'd be exactly the right people in providing training and insight for this new army. But using the same geneseed - what do they gain from that? Kinda an unreliable element considering that every other member of their legion became a traitor...

Bishop99 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Bishop99 wrote:um if you read the Herasy novels the first SM used by the first Inq was an ex luna wolf so i thinks its very likey Horus is the gene father of the GreyKnights infact in the newest novel he even wears gray armour

If you read the Horus Heresy novels you will know that everything you have just said is speculation and has not actually been said in the text

QFT. None of that is even hinted at. Grey armor? They had very pale Grey armor, same with The Death Guard with a marble color, The Word Bearers with a darker shade, and The Iron Warriors, who I assume actually have the closest shade.

read the last remembrancer and you will see what im talking about Iacton Qruze is an ex luna wolf captian that is sent on acting secret order from the Sigilite and put in charge of a secret base close to titan...... he has his armour striped and it is now gray ...... the sigilites mark just happenes to be a large I....... i think this hint pretty strongly that the Gray Knights gene father is Horus......

You have forgotten to point out the fact that he was part of a group of soldiers from multiple origins used to form the group (a group that has not be named).

Bishop99 wrote:and where is it ever hinted that its the Emperor

Seriously? you ask that, it is clearly said in codex deamonhunter and codex grey knight.

The Emperor didn't have gene-seed exactly, so the GK gene-seed is not based on his, at least no more than any and all gene-seed is based on the Emperor's DNA.

They aren't based on any of the Primarchs, either, since they all had some kind of deviation or mutation or some flaw here or there.

More likely, the most exemplary samples of gene-seed were preserved during the original creation, or the process was finally perfected after the Crusades had begun.

Omegus wrote:The Emperor didn't have gene-seed exactly, so the GK gene-seed is not based on his, at least no more than any and all gene-seed is based on the Emperor's DNA.

They aren't based on any of the Primarchs, either, since they all had some kind of deviation or mutation or some flaw here or there.

More likely, the most exemplary samples of gene-seed were preserved during the original creation, or the process was finally perfected after the Crusades had begun.

The primarches did not have geneseed, as they aren't space marines, they are something else. The geneseed of each legion was influenced by the genetics of each primarch, but the base stock of what geneseed is was identical (that is why all the legions shared commonalaties).

It is perfectly fine to have the GK geneseed BASED on the Emperor's own flesh/genetics.

I agree. Geneseed is just genetic material, likely in the form of carrier nuclei that are built up in an Astartes Progenoid gland. The original geneseed we know was created by The Emperor using The Primarchs genetic material. As there really is no real stand-out candidate amongst The Primarchs, unless Guillimans was used due to it's stability, it was either some new strain cobbled together by The Emperor, some proto-geneseed that was put in storage until is was needed, or The Emperor used his own material to create a unique strain due to the importance of this new force. Maybe it was a hybrid of all The Primarchs? All flaws were eliminated, just the good parts of all The Primarchs were retained. Just a theory, simply because it is also hinted to be from several sources.

It'd be really be great to know the quote(s) on this theory. As much as I find it interesting to have an alternative take, it's seeming very much based on made up vague references rather than actual quotes.

The GK Gene-seed is directly the Emperors, and he created them as a last defence against Daemon kind before he strode onto the battlefield to battle Horus.

Nothing to firmly suggest that idea at all.

Greyish wrote:It'd be really be great to know the quote(s) on this theory. As much as I find it interesting to have an alternative take, it's seeming very much based on made up vague references rather than actual quotes.

Honestly, it's just a theory based on the repeated insistence that the geneseed is hinted at being from more than one source and unique to The Grey Knights. I expect the actual source to these hints to be from the Garro audio-books or from the different story compilations like Age of Darkness, specifically, The Last Remembrancer. The books are downloaded on my PC, but are so far un-listened to, and much of my Horus Heresy series is lended to friends or FLGS regulars.

As a chapter steeped in mystery there is always likely to be vague illustration with details such as its geneseed. However, it has been linked to the Emperor in two different codex appearances - a more apparent appearance than the allusive, supposed alternative. As fun as it would be for GW to throw in some contradictory claims on the GK geneseed, comments about 'mixed traitor' geneseeds are starting more like a birther conspiracy theory.

Urien_Rakarth wrote:The GK Gene-seed is directly the Emperors, and he created them as a last defence against Daemon kind before he strode onto the battlefield to battle Horus.

The Emperor certainly didn't create the Grey Knights. He would have been confined to the Golden Throne in either his alive or almost dead state when any Grey Knight creating was done.

At best, he gave the order to create the Grey Knights. He didn't have time to gallivant in the name of science in the few minutes he had between getting off the Golden Throne and teleporting to Horus' ship.

As for "[g]ene-seed is directly the Emperors", so was the geneseed used to create the Primarchs. The other space marines were merely a by-product salvaged from the failed primarch project.

to create the Primarchs,

the Emperor basically cloned himself, then altered the DNA of each individual to his specifications.



to create Geneseed, and the Astartes, he took the Primarchs DNA and altered it again. he then artifically created a new type of Stem Cell which would create a set of organs to implant into young male humans and make them into Astartes.


nothing dictates that the Emperor couldn't have taken his own DNA and done the same thing. making Geneseed based on himself.


this is supported by Page 7 of the GK codex.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Urien_Rakarth wrote:The GK Gene-seed is directly the Emperors, and he created them as a last defence against Daemon kind before he strode onto the battlefield to battle Horus.

The Emperor certainly didn't create the Grey Knights. He would have been confined to the Golden Throne in either his alive or almost dead state when any Grey Knight creating was done.

At best, he gave the order to create the Grey Knights. He didn't have time to gallivant in the name of science in the few minutes he had between getting off the Golden Throne and teleporting to Horus' ship.

As for "[g]ene-seed is directly the Emperors", so was the geneseed used to create the Primarchs. The other space marines were merely a by-product salvaged from the failed primarch project.

Did you not read the codex? It's hinted that the creation of the GK (or at least the geneseed) was done prior to the Battle of Terra as a forsight. My own thoughts are that he used his own DNA for the geneseed because he needed powerful uncorruptable psykers to continue his personal work (or is this what it actually says, now I don't remember)