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Great thread guys! Even though I am starting Hordes the info on general game processes is really valuable. Thanks so much!

Speaking of Hordes though,

I had a question about thrown weapons.

Troll Impaler has a thrown spear as a weapon. It says POW (instead of P+S) does this mean that I don't add the strength of the troll who is throwing this? It makes sense because it says POW instead of P+S but other games with thrown weapons add the strength... SO... am I reading too much into this

Pretty certain the weapon also has the "thrown" attribute which says you add Str to the Pow for damage rolls. The Tharn chicks do at least, and the Ironhide guy's ax too. I don't have the book on me, but I think it should be there.

All Thrown weapons that I can think of have the Thrown special rule which states to add your strength to the POW of the ranged attack.

Ninja'd or should I say Rhyas'd

>_<

You're entirely correct, I neglected to flip the card over, and for the life of me couldn't find anything in the hordes rulebook (I probably just wasn't looking in the right place).

Question answered :(

Laughing Man wrote:

CATACLYSMUS wrote:But, as quoted, the rule does not state ONLY during activation. It only states it as one of the things you can do during activation. Thus the loophole, and thus my question.

What loophole? Is there a separate rule allowing you to boost outside of your activation?

I think we are disputing two separate things, here. I was not speaking of Rowdy's rule specifically, but about using focus, in general. There are a couple of instances with the protectorate that make the distinction important, but those are off topic, so I withdraw the question so as not to make the learning curve any steeper for new players.

Alright for future reference card rules trump book. If there's something that says you can specifically spend focus outside of your activation then awesome. Your model is unique in that regard yadda yadda. However, the book is very clear in stating what focus can be used to do. The fact it specifically says WHEN you can use the focus should be clear. It essentially answers the question "when can I use focus?" by stating "You can use focus to boost during your turn." the inclusion of an only is not really necessary. The rules for Warmahordes aren't really that loose in that regard. If you're really not sure ask on the privateer press forum for issues like these. There you can get an infernal ruling, but boosting out of your activation would be too...good in some cases.

It is clear. The rules state you can only use focus during your activation on page 75 on how to use focus.

Grahg the Elfmuncher wrote:Away means it must go away from you during the entire move. So basically you can throw in the 180 degree area in front of you. Quick illustration:

Model A is throwing model, model B is thrown model, red area is area where it can be thrown.

What about models with 360^o front arcs? could you throw behind you then without changing facing?

As I understand it ratch, no. The model must move away from you during the entirety of its move---and if you threw it backwards at one point it would actually be moving closer to you.

AgeOfEgos wrote:As I understand it ratch, no. The model must move away from you during the entirety of its move---and if you threw it backwards at one point it would actually be moving closer to you.

well what i am getting at is this has to do with your Front arc and the 180^o but if your front arc is 360^o then i would say that would be the exception to the throw... i am just trying to pose some questions to help clarify the throw rules to the fullest.

ratch wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:As I understand it ratch, no. The model must move away from you during the entirety of its move---and if you threw it backwards at one point it would actually be moving closer to you.

well what i am getting at is this has to do with your Front arc and the 180^o but if your front arc is 360^o then i would say that would be the exception to the throw... i am just trying to pose some questions to help clarify the throw rules to the fullest.

I think there are two caveats here;

One is for a two handed throw (to throw at another model) you must draw LOS to the model. This would require front arc. The 360 might circumvent that but...

Two, the model must move away from you during the entirety of the move. Regardless of facing, LOS or anything else---this means the base cannot come closer to you as it's being thrown---which means you have very limited angles when throwing. For example;



If I throw using the red arrow (Over my head)---as it travels it grows closer to my base and actually crosses over my base--before finally moving away from me. As it must move away from me during its move, this is illegal.
If I throw using the green arrow--at no point does the model grow closer to me (So it's allowed).


As I understand it but as you can tell by the thread title---I'm new to the game as well. So if I'm right, it will help get the rule in my gut---if not, I'm sure someone with more experience will point out how I'm wrong so we can both learn .

the more i think about it, the more i am wrong in this. i am making the assumption that 360^o arc means you would have the starting point in the backside. but the more i think of it. thats wrong. your front arc is your front arc 360^o just means your "Aware" in your Back arc. i was making the assumption 360^o meant you could twist your waist like an owl twists its head lol. i make stupid assumptions with frequency. i got it now. 360^o would not allow you to throw behind you lol

Ok a few more...reading up and getting ready to try out my Hordes army and wanted to make sure I understand this;

1. If you decide to throw your own model---you must still roll contested strength (and roll to hit). You can mitigate this by back striking your model and using two hands (as you will get 2d6, your other model will only get 1d6--even if he has two hands as well).

2. I throw my Wrastler 6 inches forward with another Wrastler. He takes Str + 2d6. He can then use his Animus to stand up---and this is not a shake off effect. Which means he can activate--stand up--then charge/whatever.

3. Barnabas and his swamp pits. I can't place them under a Jack--as it states 'cannot touch a model's base'---however I can cast it directly behind a Jack---then slam the Jack back (and put it's boiler out). There is no way to use the Wrastler take down and drown a Jack--as I cannot put the swamp pit under the Jack to begin with.


Right...wrong...?

AgeOfEgos wrote:Ok a few more...reading up and getting ready to try out my Hordes army and wanted to make sure I understand this;

1. If you decide to throw your own model---you must still roll contested strength (and roll to hit). You can mitigate this by back striking your model and using two hands (as you will get 2d6, your other model will only get 1d6--even if he has two hands as well).

2. I throw my Wrastler 6 inches forward with another Wrastler. He takes Str + 2d6. He can then use his Animus to stand up---and this is not a shake off effect. Which means he can activate--stand up--then charge/whatever.

3. Barnabas and his swamp pits. I can't place them under a Jack--as it states 'cannot touch a model's base'---however I can cast it directly behind a Jack---then slam the Jack back (and put it's boiler out). There is no way to use the Wrastler take down and drown a Jack--as I cannot put the swamp pit under the Jack to begin with.


Right...wrong...?

All correct.

And stuff.

Wow, that there's some tricky thinking sir!

Here's a few minor questions that I think RiTides and I answered, but I want to make certain:

1: In a models's activation it moves first then gets to attack, do specials etc. Is there a particular order for non-movement activities?
1a: Can a warbeast move, use its animus, then do initial attacks? Can it move, do initial attacks then animus then addition attack?
2a: Warlocks can cast, then move, then cast, etc. Can they also Move, Cast, do initial attacks, and then cast some more?

2: Models knocked down can not be moved over freely for purposes of charging, right? So for example, if I have a warbeast on the other side of an infantry model from a warlock, I can't charge the warlock even if the infantry model is prone unless I have a straight line to contact with the Warlock without going over the model's base, right? Example:

W------------------I WB

W is the warlock who is in a straight line with a knocked down Infantry I and the warbeast WB.

Thanks!

Wehrkind wrote:1: In a models's activation it moves first then gets to attack, do specials etc. Is there a particular order for non-movement activities?
1a: Can a warbeast move, use its animus, then do initial attacks? Can it move, do initial attacks then animus then addition attack?
2a: Warlocks can cast, then move, then cast, etc. Can they also Move, Cast, do initial attacks, and then cast some more?

All of these are legit. "Any time during activation" things, like spellcasting, using animi, healing, and so on, can be done so long as the model does not interupt movement or in the middle of attack resolutions. So you can do it before oving, after moving, before attacks, and after attacks, but not:
- After making an attack, but before rolling damage.
- After rolling damage but before resolving effects.

Also, if a model runs, or fails a cahrge, their activation ends immediately. You pretty much can do absolutley nothing after one of these.

Wehrkind wrote:2: Models knocked down can not be moved over freely for purposes of charging, right? So for example, if I have a warbeast on the other side of an infantry model from a warlock, I can't charge the warlock even if the infantry model is prone unless I have a straight line to contact with the Warlock without going over the model's base, right? Example:

W------------------I WB

W is the warlock who is in a straight line with a knocked down Infantry I and the warbeast WB.

Thanks!

Correct. Knockdown only does exactly what it says it does. It offers not ability to move over the KD'd model and so you must still use movement vectors that do not cross the model's base.

And stuff.

Excellent, that is exactly what we came up with! (Even though I REALLY wanted my warpwolf stalker to jump past his apparently unkillable trollkin to squish his warlock )

Thank you good sir!

Hey Blaque,

Thanks for the answers (in both my and others posts). Much appreciated!

Wehrkind wrote:2: Models knocked down can not be moved over freely for purposes of charging, right? So for example, if I have a warbeast on the other side of an infantry model from a warlock, I can't charge the warlock even if the infantry model is prone unless I have a straight line to contact with the Warlock without going over the model's base, right? Example:

W------------------I WB

W is the warlock who is in a straight line with a knocked down Infantry I and the warbeast WB.

Blaque's answer about charge was 100% correct however you should not forget that if your Beast was a heavy one and the KD'ed model had small base you could still perform a trample power attack to reach enemy warlock.

Just something about spells, feats and anytime abilities.

All of these can be done before movement, after movement, in-between attacks (so attack with one fist, use animus, attack with other fist) and after all attacks. Anytime abilities can also be used before a run. However, spells, feats and I think animi can't be used before a run.

yastobaal wrote:Just something about spells, feats and anytime abilities.

All of these can be done before movement, after movement, in-between attacks (so attack with one fist, use animus, attack with other fist) and after all attacks. Anytime abilities can also be used before a run. However, spells, feats and I think animi can't be used before a run.

Correct. The general rules don't prevent you from doing any-time actions during an activation in which a model ran. It is the specific rules of spellcasting, feats, and animi which prevent them.

And stuff.

Ok, so first game of Hordes tonight---wanted to make sure we have a few things 'in our gut' (and right);


Reave Fury: You can reave fury when your Warbeast dies to an enemy attack. You gain the Fury right then. You cannot Reave fury from a Warbeast that dies by transfer of damage.

Warlocks can discard Fury--only during their activation. You cannot discard Fury during the Control Phase of your turn (and then leech more Fury from your Warbeasts)


Right?

Both are correct. To #1, you do not have to reave all the fury, you can do just some of if you want. #2 is spot on though.

Just to be precise: you reave all fury from a beast that dies. You just can't exceed warlock's FUR stat.
Primal Mk. II, page 76.

There's a whole lotta folks are mis-playing this then. Good to know.

AgeOfEgos wrote:Ok, so first game of Hordes tonight---wanted to make sure we have a few things 'in our gut' (and right);


Reave Fury: You can reave fury when your Warbeast dies to an enemy attack. You gain the Fury right then. You cannot Reave fury from a Warbeast that dies by transfer of damage.

Warlocks can discard Fury--only during their activation. You cannot discard Fury during the Control Phase of your turn (and then leech more Fury from your Warbeasts)


Right?

....and you can only reave the fury the beast had accumulated that turn? I may be wrong Age but I thought you guys may have been reaving FURY instead of fury in the game I was watching. Hope that made sense.

You can only reave the amount of Fury a beast currently has on it, whether it was accumulated that turn, or if it had been accumulating it over several turns.

AgeOfEgos wrote:
Reave Fury: You can reave fury when your Warbeast dies to an enemy attack. You gain the Fury right then. You cannot Reave fury from a Warbeast that dies by transfer of damage.

Wow, I had thought you could dump damage from your warlock off onto a warbeast then reave from it if it died in the process. That changes things in my head quite a bit.

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

AshAxe wrote:
....and you can only reave the fury the beast had accumulated that turn? I may be wrong Age but I thought you guys may have been reaving FURY instead of fury in the game I was watching. Hope that made sense.

That's right Mike, I think we were doing it right.

Except the dumping of Fury during the Control phase---a Warlock can only do that during activation (We were dumping during Control). Which means, you can't squat Fury to transfer damage with no ill affect--as if you do not use the Fury to transfer damage--this will limit how much Fury you can uptake from your beasts next turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wehrkind wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:
Reave Fury: You can reave fury when your Warbeast dies to an enemy attack. You gain the Fury right then. You cannot Reave fury from a Warbeast that dies by transfer of damage.

Wow, I had thought you could dump damage from your warlock off onto a warbeast then reave from it if it died in the process. That changes things in my head quite a bit.

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

Hah, I don't know about clear on my end--that's for sure! I'm just using this thread as an ongoing learning document for our group--as each week a new query arises.