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Bookwrack wrote:
You don't have to be an expert, but your posts are showing an unfamiliarity with 40K in general. Perhaps you should've spent a little more time actually learning about the game, because that would've answered your original question before you even began. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com would probably be a big help in bringing yourself up to speed. The game is not confined to just a single year, so excluding a character because they're 'dead' is pretty nonsensical.

The dude missed Tycho. Hardly the end of the world. You may want to consider getting over it.



As far as the topic goes, that's the beauty of counts-as. Eldrad Ulthran can become Uldrad Elthran, or Steve the Farseer, for your particular craftworld.

thenoobbomb wrote:why wont he be included?
Tycho is dead too..

That's been covered...
Or rather it's been mentioned.

Mr. Burning wrote:The problem is that GW painted themselves into a corner after failbaddons 13th crusade when they had Eldrad die. Remember that YOUR actions decided the fate of the 40k universe....yeah yeah, yeah.

They sort of acknowledged the results but realised that they couldn't really let one of their staple characters die and run the risk of no more Eldrad minis being used or brought.

Some shoddy, throw away, scribbling later and Eldrad is dead but can be used in your games of 40K.

GW should keep him playable and ignore their previous ramblings.

Actually, Eldrad's "death" (it's been noted that the apprentice that claims he's alive has a name that's suspiciously similar to 'Cassandra'; if you don't know the background on that name, then look her up) was the result of the Eldar doing better than any of the other forces of order. Apparently their "reward" was the seeming death of their best known character. Based on that, and the Cassandra reference, there's a pretty good chance that the original intent was to bring Eldrad back. But GW stopped advancing the storyline, and Eldrad got stuck in limbo.

So unlike, say, Tycho, there's a good chance that he wasn't intended to be "dead dead".


Or maybe GW just decided from the start that no matter how the campaign turned out, they were going to screw over the Eldar. Would that really surprise anyone either?


I'll also add that GW has a long tradition of sticking dead characters in codices. You don't see it so much anymore, but it used to be quite common. I've got no problem with it. You merely say that the character in question is a "counts as".

And finally, before GW starts pulling Eldar characters from the Codex, they need to add new ones. Currently the Eldar have Eldrad, Yriel, and the Phoenix Lords. And GW hasn't provided much information on the latter other than the fact that they exist. We know Maughan Ra is from a craftworld that nearly got sucked into the Eye of Terror (but that he brought back out during the 13th Crusade). We know that Karrandras isn't the guy who founded the Scorpions. And that's quite literally it.

Cassandra was the crazy lady who could see the future but no one believed her (A curse from the god Apollo (?) whom she rejected when he wanted to do what greek gods do with mortals) she was in Troy but i don't know if she died in Troy or lived when they fled the city.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra
EDIT: ninja'd

purplefood wrote:Cassandra was the crazy lady who could see the future but no one believed her (A curse from the god Apollo (?) whom she rejected when he wanted to do what greek gods do with mortals) she was in Troy but i don't know if she died in Troy or lived when they fled the city.

Thanks for that. I love when people reference something on the assumption that everyone should know or they should "look it up"

Considering that Draigo are in a slightly similar position as Eldrad, I see no reason to hy he should not be in the next codex. It is quite an interesting idea though that he should become a wraithseer... Not sure though if I'd prefer that on another SC.

CrazyThang wrote:

purplefood wrote:Cassandra was the crazy lady who could see the future but no one believed her (A curse from the god Apollo (?) whom she rejected when he wanted to do what greek gods do with mortals) she was in Troy but i don't know if she died in Troy or lived when they fled the city.

Thanks for that. I love when people reference something on the assumption that everyone should know or they should "look it up"

No worries.
Also i have a feeling she wasn't actually crazy but everyone considered her crazy since that was part of the curse... though i can't remember it all that well so go figure...

Saintspirit wrote:Considering that Draigo are in a slightly similar position as Eldrad, I see no reason to hy he should not be in the next codex. It is quite an interesting idea though that he should become a wraithseer... Not sure though if I'd prefer that on another SC.

Draigo? As in, the alive, Supreme Grand Master of The Grey Knights Kaldor Draigo? Not really. Draigo can escape The Warp and fight in the Material Universe. He can, and has done this, therefore Draigo is a bad example. Tyco is.

Err... don't know if it was brought up, or if it's common knowledge, Eldrad gave some stones to a few eldar officers he trusted, and the power in ALL BUT A FEW faded. Implying that he's alive, or can be brought back.

I will just keep it short and say yeah, he should definitely be useable, (Even though I haven't played him in two years ).

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Err... don't know if it was brought up, or if it's common knowledge, Eldrad gave some stones to a few eldar officers he trusted, and the power in ALL BUT A FEW faded. Implying that he's alive, or can be brought back.

I will just keep it short and say yeah, he should definitely be useable, (Even though I haven't played him in two years ).

Yes that is well known.
'all but a few' implies his spirit is either in tatters, or is encased (?) in those particular stones, wither way he is dead and can only realistically () come back as a Wraithseer IMO. I know GW are famous wih their ambiguity and retcons, but this would be a step too far surely?

Personally, I'm not a fan of "historical" or dead characters, but that's because I prefer to not stick with GW's dead in the water story. So it's purely a preference because I consider the games I play to be advancing past 99M41, not set in the past.

That said, I can see why people would want them in.

Codex: Space Wolves... um, 3rd ed? Came out in '93, if memory serves... lists a character, with stats, and a fig for him... and in his character description, mentions the year and battle that he died in! You can still take this guy as a character, though, and, no, he's not in a dread.

Psienesis wrote:Codex: Space Wolves... um, 3rd ed? Came out in '93, if memory serves... lists a character, with stats, and a fig for him... and in his character description, mentions the year and battle that he died in! You can still take this guy as a character, though, and, no, he's not in a dread.

Erm cant have been 3rd, there were only Grimnar, Ragnar and Ulrik in there:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex:_Space_Wolves_(3rd_Edition)
and AFAIK Ulrik is still alive.

Him, or a similarly powerful farseer to replace him. Otherwise there'd be no uber-farseer.

Revenent Reiko wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Codex: Space Wolves... um, 3rd ed? Came out in '93, if memory serves... lists a character, with stats, and a fig for him... and in his character description, mentions the year and battle that he died in! You can still take this guy as a character, though, and, no, he's not in a dread.

Erm cant have been 3rd, there were only Grimnar, Ragnar and Ulrik in there:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex:_Space_Wolves_(3rd_Edition)
and AFAIK Ulrik is still alive.

I never saw the 3rd edition codex, but the very first Space Wolf codex had at least two dead guys, iirc.

Also i have a feeling she wasn't actually crazy but everyone considered her crazy since that was part of the curse... though i can't remember it all that well so go figure...

I think that depends on the source. It's always popular to portray anyone with the gift of prophecy as being at least slightly mad, so it'd probably be surprising if at least some sources didn't portray her that way. Shakespeare depicts her that way in 'Troilus and Cressida', for instance (but then again, T&C mocks virtually everyone who appears in the play). But the important bits of her character are that she saw the future (including the Fall of Troy) and that no one believed any of her predictions.

Thanks for that. I love when people reference something on the assumption that everyone should know or they should "look it up"

If it's a particularly obscure reference, then yes I agree with you that the individual providing ought to provide the information. But Cassandra's enough of a cultural thing that people ought to know exactly who she was. Her name has even been used as an adjective to provide a description of someone who accurately predicts events but that no one believes (an example from a little while back would be G'Kar from Babylon 5, if you're familiar with that old TV series, who constantly warns everyone about the coming Shadow invasion and is consistantly ignored). Providing a one-sentence summary doesn't really do the trick in this instance. Doing a little bit of research on your own is easy enough (she's in wiki, after all) and adds a little bit of extra context to your knowledge base.

Bookwrack wrote:You don't have to be an expert, but your posts are showing an unfamiliarity with 40K in general. Perhaps you should've spent a little more time actually learning about the game, because that would've answered your original question before you even began. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com would probably be a big help in bringing yourself up to speed. The game is not confined to just a single year, so excluding a character because they're 'dead' is pretty nonsensical.

Chill out and stop being so pedantic. Whether there are other famous dead characters or no, that has little to do with the question he is actually asking.

And for what it's worth, I would say Eldrad is a more well-known character than Tycho.

He'll be replaced by Stanley the Seer, recently back from a trip where his immense psychic powers were needed in order to cause an Avatar (punchbag of fluff, just call it a rogue Avatar and redo the fluff) to trip over, graze his knee and consequently die.

In the process, he carved his name into a Daemon Primarch's spleen (the heart was already taken) and overcame some sort of psychic trauma that left him with the power and toughness of some sort of Monsterous Creature, but not the stature.

He also rides a large Lion called Larry and is the leader of the Thundercat unit, a unit of Lion-riding Eldar. In addition, he has the Eldarblade (a Force Weapon that acts as a powerfist that strikes at initiative), an Eldarpistol, and has the powers Eldar Lance and Jaws of the World Lion.

He costs 150pts, has Eternal Warrior, Feel no Pain, Furious Charge, Infiltrate, Scout, Stealth, Relentless, Stubborn, Fearless, Acute Senses and Tank Hunter.

Avatar 720 wrote:He'll be replaced by Stanley the Seer, recently back from a trip where his immense psychic powers were needed in order to cause an Avatar (punchbag of fluff, just call it a rogue Avatar and redo the fluff) to trip over, graze his knee and consequently die.

In the process, he carved his name into a Daemon Primarch's spleen (the heart was already taken) and overcame some sort of psychic trauma that left him with the power and toughness of some sort of Monsterous Creature, but not the stature.

He also rides a large Lion called Larry and is the leader of the Thundercat unit, a unit of Lion-riding Eldar. In addition, he has the Eldarblade (a Force Weapon that acts as a powerfist that strikes at initiative), an Eldarpistol, and has the powers Eldar Lance and Jaws of the World Lion.

He costs 150pts, has Eternal Warrior, Feel no Pain, Furious Charge, Infiltrate, Scout, Stealth, Relentless, Stubborn, Fearless, Acute Senses and Tank Hunter.

Meh, sounds underpowered

Well Lysander was supposedly dead for a while, maybe GW will retcon it and come up with some plot device to bring him back.

Snarky wrote:Well Lysander was supposedly dead for a while, maybe GW will retcon it and come up with some plot device to bring him back.

I once joked that Eldrad will reappear dragging the shattered remains of an (required in every codex) Avatar behind him - after all, one's almost required in every codex, and why should the Eldar be any different. The caveat would be that this is the remains of the possessed Avatar from the Daemons codex.

Eumerin wrote:

Snarky wrote:Well Lysander was supposedly dead for a while, maybe GW will retcon it and come up with some plot device to bring him back.

I once joked that Eldrad will reappear dragging the shattered remains of an (required in every codex) Avatar behind him - after all, one's almost required in every codex, and why should the Eldar be any different. The caveat would be that this is the remains of the possessed Avatar from the Daemons codex.

This idea has been officially recorded and marked for re-use by the GW ideas department.
Please direct all queries and comments to GWs Customer Service department.
Thank you for your time.
The Mind Police in conjunction with the GW Ideas department.

Snarky wrote:Well Lysander was supposedly dead for a while, maybe GW will retcon it and come up with some plot device to bring him back.

They really don't need to.

Chaplain Xavier is also dead in the 'current' timeline, as have been most of the IG characters ever included in the game. Nork Deddog, Macharius, Gaunt... all long dead. And we have two different versions of Tycho, representing different points in his career.

The 'current' date in the 40K fluff is nothing more than a marker for how far they have fleshed it out. Games are considered to take place at any point on the 10000 years between the Heresy and that 'current' date. So there is no problem whatsever with certain characters being dead at any given point in that timeline.

As a normal HQ? I'd say no.

He's dead. Dead as dead can be in 40k fluff. Solar Macharius was once a useable IG commander, but now he has died and was retired. Eldrad should follow the same route.

Additionally, Eldrad has become a crutch for Eldar players. In roughly 4 years, aside from my own Eldar, I've known one other Eldar player that didn't routinely or always field Eldrad. Yes there are some issues with the Eldar codex but Eldrad's ubiquitous nature precedes the rapid aging of that book, and being reduced to a crutch cheapens Eldrad's character.

If they want to put him in the next book without a points value (e.g. for scenario games and apocalypse) then great, but as an Eldar player I'd prefer that Eldrad be allowed to die and stay dead.

Vaktathi wrote:Additionally, Eldrad has become a crutch for Eldar players. In roughly 4 years, aside from my own Eldar, I've known one other Eldar player that didn't routinely or always field Eldrad. Yes there are some issues with the Eldar codex but Eldrad's ubiquitous nature precedes the rapid aging of that book, and being reduced to a crutch cheapens Eldrad's character.

I don't even own the model, so you now know another.

Vaktathi wrote: Solar Macharius was once a useable IG commander, but now he has died and was retired.

He had already died in the fluff that was introduced with him in the first place...

purplefood wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Why shouldn't he be? ... But really. He's stuck inside a Blackstone Fortress that is seemingly possessed by Slaanesh. He's dead-dead. Not comin' back as a Wraithseer I don't think.

Along with what I said; kinda answered your own question there.

And being 'dead-dead' doesn't preclude a character from being usable.

Simply put--our games of 40k can happen at any point or time. We're not limited to simply "99.M41" and after Eldrad died.
To remove a character because he's dead at the present time kind of defeats the purpose of them 'stopping the clock' which is to give us a relatively stable background where we have to use our imagination brush to fill in the rest of the blanks.

This is more or less my view...

This is my view also

Alot of codexes feature dead people, so it's not an uncommon thing

Eldrad should stay IMO, and they should re-vamp the pheonix lords, but thats another story lol

Damn, I don't know what Macharius would be able to do since he's an order of magnitude above Creed.

technically "Eldrad Ulthran" is just another HQ choice that can be renamed to anything you want.

Should a special Farseer-based "special character" class HQ choice, with statlines and abilities/wargear etc. influenced by Eldrad Ulthran appear in the Eldar codex? Yes.

Does it need to be called ELdrad Ulthran? Nope. For all I care, it could be superduperuberfarseer.

Souns better, superduperuberfarseer.