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That Panther company will be death from the front and prey from the side. Tanks are strong, combined arms will always be stronger. If you don't understand this then maybe this type of game isn't for you.

As to why they would make those lists, it's because they can be fun. They won't win many games, but they can sure be great fun to play.

On to tank lists, they usually start with a fair number of tanks, and then quickly fill up with support. See my list, it has the HQ and 2 Tank Platoons and the rest are full support. Infantry works the same, HQ, infantry and then you add in tanks and other support.

Many people play at larger points values, 1750-2000. The 'big kitty' lists are often difficult to fit into smaller game sizes and are challenging to use due to their lack of supporting infantry and artillery. Infantry and artillery are desirable in lists because FoW's game mechanics are designed to benefit combined arms forces. Armour, infantry and artillery all have strengths and weaknesses in FoW which puts a list that concentrates on one element at a disadvantage.

Panthers for example are excellent tank killers but are poor in assaults and vulnerable to aircraft and artillery. A list with PZIVs or StuGIIIs as your main tank will have much more room for supporting elements.

Canadian 5th wrote:That Panther company will be death from the front and prey from the side. Tanks are strong, combined arms will always be stronger. If you don't understand this then maybe this type of game isn't for you.

As to why they would make those lists, it's because they can be fun. They won't win many games, but they can sure be great fun to play.

On to tank lists, they usually start with a fair number of tanks, and then quickly fill up with support. See my list, it has the HQ and 2 Tank Platoons and the rest are full support. Infantry works the same, HQ, infantry and then you add in tanks and other support.

That's not fare to say, I do understand this game, and what I have worked out is that me, my brother, and my mates who are getting into this game shortly are all going tank armies, cause we love tanks so much, no one has art or inf atm, thats why i decided to play the "Big kitty army" because it can blow that hell out of Shermans, Cromwells, Stuarts, fireflys, and etc. Its not fare for you to see "This game isn't for me if I cant understand the way of combined arms" But I do, but combined arms for this circumstance, isn't the greatest idea in my opinion. Nothing against you, thats a fare comment. But I've bin playing wargames since I was 12, and through fault, I've learned what to use and WHEN to use certain things.

Rogueyopants wrote:

Canadian 5th wrote:That Panther company will be death from the front and prey from the side. Tanks are strong, combined arms will always be stronger. If you don't understand this then maybe this type of game isn't for you.

As to why they would make those lists, it's because they can be fun. They won't win many games, but they can sure be great fun to play.

On to tank lists, they usually start with a fair number of tanks, and then quickly fill up with support. See my list, it has the HQ and 2 Tank Platoons and the rest are full support. Infantry works the same, HQ, infantry and then you add in tanks and other support.

That's not fare to say, I do understand this game, and what I have worked out is that me, my brother, and my mates who are getting into this game shortly are all going tank armies, cause we love tanks so much, no one has art or inf atm, thats why i decided to play the "Big kitty army" because it can blow that hell out of Shermans, Cromwells, Stuarts, fireflys, and etc. Its not fare for you to see "This game isn't for me if I cant understand the way of combined arms" But I do, but combined arms for this circumstance, isn't the greatest idea in my opinion. Nothing against you, thats a fare comment. But I've bin playing wargames since I was 12, and through fault, I've learned what to use and WHEN to use certain things.

If they're all going tanks then try this pdf.

HQ - 2 x Panzerfaust Teams [60]
Combat - Pioneers w/ 3 Combat sections (1 flamethrower per section + command team panzerfaust + goliath demo carrier) [260]
Combat - Pioneers w/ 3 Combat sections (1 flamethrower per section + command team panzerfaust) [230]
Support - 4 x Marder III H [270]
Support - 4 x Pak 43's [455]
Support - 2 x FlaK36 guns (Extra Crew) [225]

Flamethrowers auto bail tanks, Pioneers assault tanks with 4 AT versus at best 2 top armor. Panzerfaust teams are AT 12 shooting, assault AT 6. Marders shred things with AT 12. The Pak 43's are AT 16. The FlaK26's are AT 13 with 3 shots. You'll shred the enemy with ease if they go all tanks or even infantry in name only (IINO).

As for your big cat list Panthers have 5 side armor. Anything flanks you and they start to die or get bailed not to mention that even a Stuart can kill their side armor...

Note: I did not mean the last post in any offensive matter at all, I loved the feed back given, its great that your helping me because I'm new , but just one of those comments I had to call out on

Rogueyopants wrote:

Canadian 5th wrote:That Panther company will be death from the front and prey from the side. Tanks are strong, combined arms will always be stronger. If you don't understand this then maybe this type of game isn't for you.

As to why they would make those lists, it's because they can be fun. They won't win many games, but they can sure be great fun to play.

On to tank lists, they usually start with a fair number of tanks, and then quickly fill up with support. See my list, it has the HQ and 2 Tank Platoons and the rest are full support. Infantry works the same, HQ, infantry and then you add in tanks and other support.

That's not fare to say, I do understand this game, and what I have worked out is that me, my brother, and my mates who are getting into this game shortly are all going tank armies, cause we love tanks so much, no one has art or inf atm, thats why i decided to play the "Big kitty army" because it can blow that hell out of Shermans, Cromwells, Stuarts, fireflys, and etc. Its not fare for you to see "This game isn't for me if I cant understand the way of combined arms" But I do, but combined arms for this circumstance, isn't the greatest idea in my opinion. Nothing against you, thats a fare comment. But I've bin playing wargames since I was 12, and through fault, I've learned what to use and WHEN to use certain things.

Actually, if you're facing all tank, then combined arms WILL be the best option. Lists that take only tanks will never be able to get rid of infantry, and tanks will die to infantry in assaults, especially if they're Pioneers. Then you've got ambushing AT guns, airplanes, artillery with AOPs'...

And, unfortunately, your Panther list will suffer. With only side armour 5, anything dedicated Anti-tank will take out your Panthers quickly (you will learn to fear Fireflys!), and Cromwells, moving 36" a turn, will get behind you before you know it.

Soviets, on the other hand, will simply flood the field with tanks. In fact, if I wanted to, I could throw 18 t-34's at you - which will be fearless trained. I could downgrade them to fearless conscripts and get even more tanks! With only 8 Panthers putting out shots a turn, I could make it so that I have enough modifiers to keep to from getting too many hits. And then it's as many AT 9 shots against your side 5 armour that I can throw at you.

Also, with only 8 Panthers, even losing 1-2 will be extremely detrimental.

Also:

If your friends are going all-tank, take the list Canadian made! They will absolutely hate you at the end of your first few games.

That army sounds cool, but like other people said up there on post is, I'm going for a fun army, Hey it might even win as well, but I like playing with tigers and panthers, and panzer IV's

And on a side note, Big P sounded like a complete tosser

Rogueyopants wrote:Note: I did not mean the last post in any offensive matter at all, I loved the feed back given, its great that your helping me because I'm new , but just one of those comments I had to call out on

You still don't come off as being that much of a list builder. Besides, playing from the age of 12 means nothing if you're still young.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rogueyopants wrote:That army sounds cool, but like other people said up there on post is, I'm going for a fun army, Hey it might even win as well, but I like playing with tigers and panthers, and panzer IV's

And on a side note, Big P sounded like a complete tosser

What's so fun about moving 8 models around and losing?

I can build lists just fine, what I have bin trying to go is "Super elite" cause I've never had an army as small and expensive has this one before"

I mean in other wargames, I'm pretty sure its fare to say that I'm a good list builder, I've won many games in 40k, Ancients, DBMM, DBR, 15mm Napoleonic But my first love as always bin the the second world war, its history and this game, and I thought since I'm getting into this game, why not build a silly army for my first one, besides, Im buying off OG, where I can buy three decent sized armies for the price of one

And yes Im still young, but 5 years have tought me a lot of things, and one of them is how to build an army


Automatically Appended Next Post:
never said I'd be playing with eight models, with the way I'm buying them, me and friends can be having 3500 point games In practically no time at all (8 tigers and 6 panthers for 3500) yes that still is a small amount but it is still fun to play, maybe you like "Power Gaming" and like wining have a sulk when you lose, but I dont, i enjoy playing games because I like playing with toy soldiers, is their a problem with that?

Rogueyopants wrote:I can build lists just fine, what I have bin trying to go is "Super elite" cause I've never had an army as small and expensive has this one before"

I mean in other wargames, I'm pretty sure its fare to say that I'm a good list builder, I've won many games in 40k, Ancients, DBMM, DBR, 15mm Napoleonic But my first love as always bin the the second world war, its history and this game, and I thought since I'm getting into this game, why not build a silly army for my first one, besides, Im buying off OG, where I can buy three decent sized armies for the price of one

And yes Im still young, but 5 years have tought me a lot of things, and one of them is how to build an army


Automatically Appended Next Post:
never said I'd be playing with eight models, with the way I'm buying them, me and friends can be having 3500 point games In practically no time at all (8 tigers and 6 panthers for 3500) yes that still is a small amount but it is still fun to play, maybe you like "Power Gaming" and like wining have a sulk when you lose, but I dont, i enjoy playing games because I like playing with toy soldiers, is their a problem with that?

They haven't done much for your spelling and grammar I see.

And does my 5th Canadian Armored list look like power gaming to you? Playing any US armor is tough enough, but lacking 76mm guns and fireflies is going to be rougher than normal. But hey, enjoy mooching off mom and dad and playing with plastic tanks in a bad list. You'll grow up someday and see that money isn't free and that building a decent list from the start is the way to go.

Canadian 5th wrote:

Rogueyopants wrote:I can build lists just fine, what I have bin trying to go is "Super elite" cause I've never had an army as small and expensive has this one before"

I mean in other wargames, I'm pretty sure its fare to say that I'm a good list builder, I've won many games in 40k, Ancients, DBMM, DBR, 15mm Napoleonic But my first love as always bin the the second world war, its history and this game, and I thought since I'm getting into this game, why not build a silly army for my first one, besides, Im buying off OG, where I can buy three decent sized armies for the price of one

And yes Im still young, but 5 years have tought me a lot of things, and one of them is how to build an army


Automatically Appended Next Post:
never said I'd be playing with eight models, with the way I'm buying them, me and friends can be having 3500 point games In practically no time at all (8 tigers and 6 panthers for 3500) yes that still is a small amount but it is still fun to play, maybe you like "Power Gaming" and like wining have a sulk when you lose, but I dont, i enjoy playing games because I like playing with toy soldiers, is their a problem with that?

They haven't done much for your spelling and grammar I see.

And does my 5th Canadian Armored list look like power gaming to you? Playing any US armor is tough enough, but lacking 76mm guns and fireflies is going to be rougher than normal. But hey, enjoy mooching off mom and dad and playing with plastic tanks in a bad list. You'll grow up someday and see that money isn't free and that building a decent list from the start is the way to go.

Could we actually see that 5th Canadian Armored list? Now I'm curious.

Sure, it was posted last page.

HQ - 2 x Sherman [175]
Combat - 3 x Sherman [260]
Combat - 3 x Sherman [260]
Weapons - 3 x Stuarts [150]
Support - 4 x M10 3" SP [310]
Support - 3 x Scout Carriers w/ Extra MGs [105]
Support - 4 x 25 pdr guns [215]
Aerial Observation Post [25]

Nothing power gamey about it, I just wanted to represent my home unit, the 903rd British Columbia Dragoons, with a list that might win a game or two.

So you get on about my spelling, bro I'm sorry if it not up to your standards, now your just trying to be dick, I wasn't trying to be rude or anything, I was actually being friendly then you get upset

We were cool until you accused me of being a power gamer when you said, 'maybe you like "Power Gaming" and like wining have a sulk when you lose'. Then again, you don't seem to understand the basics of grammar, nor list building. You said that under the circumstances you didn't think combined arms would work. When showed to be wrong you backpedaled.

How bout this army (just a thought!)

HQ-2 SMG teams-30pts

Combat-3 Sicherungs Rifle Squads-70pts

Combat-3 Sicherungs Rifle Squads-70pts

Combat-3 Sicherungs Rifle Squads-70pts

Support-4 Pak40's-245pts

Support-4 5 Panthers-940pts

1425 pts Overall, but thats just a though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I said maybe... all I was saying is Wargaming is meant to be fun, nothing to get all heated about, thats the point I was trying to get across, hence the reason i said maybe and you took it out of context


Automatically Appended Next Post:
wait screw the Pak40's swap that with 4 Marder III's

They will melt to moral tests, get hit rather easy, and you can't start with your Tanks or Pak40's on the table in some missions due to the special rules on them. That entire Panther block also gets 5 shots after smoke, and shooting at trained tanks beyond 16" they need 4+ to hit so that's 2.5 hits, maybe 2 dead tanks a turn. Meanwhile from the side your tanks die like Shermans except they cost much more.

OK revised

HQ-2 SMG teams, 2 Panzerchreck teams-75pts

Combat-3 Walküre Squads Rifle/MG-110pts

Combat-3 Walküre Squads Rifle/MG-110pts

Combat-3 Walküre Squads Rifle/MG-110pts

Support-4 Tigers-850pts

Support-3 StuG IV's-285pts

1540 points Overall

It's better, you still lack smoke which would help deny your opponents shooting. You do at least have some infantry, but this list is actually thin on anti-tank now having only 7 vehicles able to fire beyond 16" and kill a vehicle.

If anybody in your group of friends figures out Pak 40's own then you're going to be in trouble.

Rogueyopants wrote: And thats just to play the army, and if I had another Panther in the HQ slot I get a 1500 pt army on the dot, and if an army with no inf is bad, why has BF come out with army lists that mainly focus on tanks, and to even start some tank companys you got to have like 8 somthing tanks before even thinking about inf?

They came out with the lists because they can be fun to play and an armored company was an actual force. This in no way changes the fact that combined arms forces are just more adaptable and can address more situations effectively than a force that focuses solely on infantry or armor. If you want to play a panther company you have to accept the tactical limitations of doing so. It is just the way it is. Doesn't make it right or wrong. I enjoy playing my EW British armoured regiment. It is fun charging around with all those tanks (31 tanks at 1750 points), but the lack of any artillery support and all those 2pdrs with the no HE special rule make it really hard for my to do much of anything to dug in infantry or guns. I had the opposite problem when my EW british divisional cavalry force found itself facing a russian EW army that was supported by T-34 tanks. The only weapons in my entire force that could hurt the tanks were my 2 18/25pdr artillery pieces. I had nothing else that could hurt them.

Each list you choose to use has its own limitations and strengths. The key is to maximize usage of your strengths while limiting the impact of the weaknesses.

Skriker

It has to be said that there is something rather relaxing about not having to paint umptyhundred little men for every single army, or paint polka-dot-tree-splinter-stripe 44 pattern camo on the buggers. Middlestone, Reflective Green, maybe a bit of brown, and bang. Army.