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Frankly listening to the internet (in its infinite pervertedness), the idea of Chaos-turned Sisters, especially those turning to Slaanesh (how droll) is so boring and overdone you get more uniqueness out of having a loyalist sisters force.


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Goddard wrote:It's his army, he can do whatever he wants with it.

This is true.

But I think you're missing the point-- if he is looking for approval, he does not innately deserve any for his ideas, and he certainly will never get any from me for this particular one. He can do whatever he wants with his army, but I also am WELL within my rights to disapprove. Just as you could disapprove if someone painted their marine models bright purple with pink trim and white weapons, with stars and pony symbols on their shoulderpads, and then went around saying they're Ultramarines led by a Marneus Calgar who's been modified to have a tremendous head of bright pink hair.

Melissia wrote:Frankly listening to the internet (in its infinite pervertedness), the idea of Chaos-turned Sisters, especially those turning to Slaanesh (how droll) is so boring and overdone you get more uniqueness out of having a loyalist sisters force.


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Goddard wrote:It's his army, he can do whatever he wants with it.

This is true.

But I think you're missing the point-- if he is looking for approval, he does not innately deserve any for his ideas, and he certainly will never get any from me for this particular one. He can do whatever he wants with his army, but I also am WELL within my rights to disapprove. Just as you could disapprove if someone painted their marine models bright purple with pink trim and white weapons, with stars and pony symbols on their shoulderpads, and then went around saying they're Ultramarines led by a Marneus Calgar who's been modified to have a tremendous head of bright pink hair.

I understand what you're getting at. Because he has the freedom to do what he wants, does not entitle him to be immune from critisizing.

Out of curiosity, do you disagree that Black Library books count as canon?

Having Sister corrupted by chaos is fine, as in Daemonifuge. Having sisters that willingly turned to Chaos, at least a whole army of them, is maybe not so cool.

I was going to mention Mirael, but Lynata beat me to it.

On the fluff itself, it's a bit of a tricky one. Personally, I would like it if the Black Library and the Studio material were separate. The codex stuff has generally been a lot more consistent than the Black Library stuff.
In the Heresy series Lokens hair has been blonde and dark, the Anatheme has been grey and gold. The issue is each author has their different idea and style and it's a case of too many cooks sometimes.

But the stance is that all fluff is fluff, it's a lazy approach to it maybe, but it's because it's told from different perspectives, times and adjusted to suit.

Boob themed Sororitas are very high on my list of the lamest, fluff contradicting army ideas suggested about once per month, usually by some teen wanting to do something naughty. The others on the list are Chaos Grey Knights, Chaos Xenos (mostly Eldar and tau), female Space Marines, and an army painted PINK (muahahaha).

Goddard wrote:You can ignore any bit of fluff you want, that doesn't change anything.

Ah, but I'm not ignoring fluff, I'm ignoring novels that ignore GW canon.

Goddard wrote:It's his army, he can do whatever he wants with it. He asked if there has been any official canon indicating that a SoB fell, or succumbed, to Chaos influece, and I cited it.

Of course! I was merely pointing out how it conflicts with GW's own stance on the subject. Note that I myself have mentioned that some licensed products are breaking the rule. I didn't want to "destroy" the comment (sorry if it came off sounding that way!), perhaps I'm a bit hypersensitive as soon as someone mentions the Cain books in combination with SoB.

Anyways, it's OP's decision on if he wants to stick with GW canon or take the Black Library approach. I just think the differences should be pointed out, before he sees his army style "squatted" by GW not caring about what some novel author wrote.

For example, the 3E WH 'dex basically invalidates that part of Daemonifuge with this "only one Sister" line, for example (it was released later). Interestingly, Ephrael herself seems to be canon, for there has both been a GW article on the website as well as an official miniature with her own rules (which is why we know that an exiled Sister cannot use Acts of Faith). This is in line with what Gav Thorpe said about GW "cherrypicking" cool stuff from the novels (such as the existence of Gaunt's Ghosts) and simply ignoring things they don't like (Multilaser Marines ).

Pilau Rice wrote:On the fluff itself, it's a bit of a tricky one. Personally, I would like it if the Black Library and the Studio material were separate. [...] In the Heresy series Lokens hair has been blonde and dark, the Anatheme has been grey and gold. The issue is each author has their different idea and style and it's a case of too many cooks sometimes.

Aye - that actually seems to be how GW sees it, too, and I've since come to see this as a blessing.

"In further conversation, George emphasized that Black Library's main objective was to “tell good stories”. He agreed that some points in certain novels could, perhaps, have benefited from the editor’s red pen (a certain multilaser was mentioned) but was at pains to explain that, just as each hobbyist tends to interpret the background and facts of the Warhammer and 40k worlds differently, so does each author. In essence, each author represents an “alternative” version of the respective worlds."
- Source

Kroothawk wrote:Boob themed Sororitas

Wat

In other words, "we're too lazy to do it and the authors don't like to read each other's drivel any more than we do".

Lynata wrote:
For example, the 3E WH 'dex basically invalidates that part of Daemonifuge with this "only one Sister" line, for example (it was released later).

I dunno, it depends on how I guess, Miriael maybe willingly went over the Slaanesh whereas the sisters in Daemonufuge were gradually corrupted whilst they were studying the Keeper of Secrets.

I've not read the reference to the Chaos sisters in Ciaphas Cain so can't really comment, but maybe the same kind of corruption occurred?

There were no "Chaos Sisters" in Ciaphas Cain. There were merely those who were being directly mind controlled. They didn't worship Chaos-- they were dominated by psychic powers, something that particular enemy was able to do to entire planets at a time so long as he was able to make direct eye contact.

Melissia wrote:There were no "Chaos Sisters" in Ciaphas Cain. There were merely those who were being directly mind controlled. They didn't worship Chaos-- they were dominated by psychic powers, something that particular enemy was able to do to entire planets at a time so long as he was able to make direct eye contact.

Well there you go - Psychic domination.

Omegus wrote:In other words, "we're too lazy to do it and the authors don't like to read each other's drivel any more than we do".

More like "The authors don't like to have to fact check every single thing, especially if it might get in the way of them writing a fun story whilst being paid peanuts."

That was the least well written of the various Cain books, so meh. Still not that bad, but there's just so many annoying, grating things about it that make me not want to put it with the other Cain books...

Pilau Rice wrote:I dunno, it depends on how I guess, Miriael maybe willingly went over the Slaanesh whereas the sisters in Daemonufuge were gradually corrupted whilst they were studying the Keeper of Secrets.

Miriael was captured by the Emperor's Children, she didn't just "switch sides" because she wanted to. Corruption is the only explanation for how one of the Order's best (according to her Canoness, and Miriael was a Sister Superior) could forsake everything she once held dear. Miriael Sabathiel's corruption is one of Chaos' greatest achievements (considering that this was considered impossible up until she showed up as a traitor), which is probably why she became a Champion of Slaanesh right away.

Pilau Rice wrote:Well there you go - Psychic domination.

Isn't that just as bad, considering that the SoB have a special rule against psyker powers?

Still, thanks for clarifying. I really don't intend to buy that stuff, but it's good to know details like these for threads like these.

Lynata wrote:Isn't that just as bad.

Is taking a gun and killing someone as bad as having someone put the gun in your hand while you are unconscious from drugs they injected into your unwilling body and having them pull your finger so you pull the trigger?

I would be happy with the idea of Chaos Sisters if only people weren't so set on making them Slaanesh worshippers. To my mind, Sisters of Battle are much more likely to turn to Khorne due to their marshal upbringing and background than Slaanesh. Seems to me some people only pick slaanesh for the idea of Chaos Sisters because the idea of pervert nuns is hawt (hurr hurr).

Like this? Check out the thread, it's quite good stuff

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/336665.page

That image is so horrendously stupid and wrong in so many ways >.<

No offense meant to the artist, but geeze do I hate that picture and I only just saw it now.

It's clearly because the chainaxe is too small.

They can't worship Khorne with chainaxes that small!

How do those shoulder pads stay up?

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I would be happy with the idea of Chaos Sisters if only people weren't so set on making them Slaanesh worshippers. To my mind, Sisters of Battle are much more likely to turn to Khorne due to their marshal upbringing and background than Slaanesh. Seems to me some people only pick slaanesh for the idea of Chaos Sisters because the idea of pervert nuns is hawt (hurr hurr).

Well, Slaanesh remains the one and only Chaos God to which both GW's own books as well as the novels let Sisters fall to.

And I actually think it makes sense. Yes, it's cliché, and I even agree that it might originate in the "pervert nun" stuff, but at the end of the day the Sisters are confined to an environment that suppresses all those things that a happy, normal life would offer. Slaanesh is simply the other extreme, so when a Sister gets exposed to certain stimuli I can perfectly see her swing over all the way once her mental shield is shattered.

Or another approach. Sisters Repentia, or corporeal mortification in general. All it takes is someone who starts to enjoy whipping little girls and Slaanesh may have a tiny opening to exploit. I realize the SM approach may be perceived as another cliché, but the aspect simply exists as part of this faction's style. And hey, this stuff happens in real life convents as well (though these days people can at least sue the Church ).

Plain violence, though? That's something they get to experience every few weeks or months - and they don't really seem to enjoy it, rather taking it as a holy duty and part of their service.

In the end, I do agree that one could come up with reasons for every Chaos God to be the one a fallen Sister turns to - but I hold that Slaanesh is most reasonable, so I'm not surprised by the one studio canon example we have doing just that.

Lynata wrote:I hold that Slaanesh is most reasonable

Slaanesh is the one Sisters, if any were to actually fall, that would be LEAST likely. They do no live lives of excess or hedonism in the first place, quite the opposite in fact.

Melissia wrote:

Lynata wrote:I hold that Slaanesh is most reasonable

Slaanesh is the one Sisters, if any were to actually fall, that would be LEAST likely. They do no live lives of excess or hedonism in the first place, quite the opposite in fact.

This is the thing, for me. I get what Lynata's saying, but most who fall to Chaos do so by adhering to their nature rather than being tempted away from it. The militant fall to Khorne, the devious fall to Tzeentch, the despairing fall to Nurgle, and the decadent fall to Slaanesh.

Melissia wrote:Slaanesh is the one Sisters, if any were to actually fall, that would be LEAST likely. They do no live lives of excess or hedonism in the first place, quite the opposite in fact.

Exactly - that's the very reason for I think Slaanesh would apply best.

In terms of pleasure, regardless of whether it stems from good food, comfy chairs or carnal activities, the Sisters do not "immunize" by limited exposure (like the normal Imperial population), they avoid entirely. I can see this becoming a weakness.

"Hey, this actually feels good!"

I mean, you'd assume that modern day clergly don't lead lives of excess or hedonism as well (they do take vows), and still you see scandals popping up all over the world.

Due to their monastic lifestyle, the Sisters have a remarkable resistance against the influence of Chaos (which is why only one traitor is known, and why they don't fall due to "everyday business") - but where this nigh-unshatterable resistance IS shattered, this would be the first thing I could see one realizing.

Of course it could also simply be because it were the Emperor's Children that captured Miriael and they are aligned to Slaanesh themselves, so would naturally be inclined to break her in a "fitting" way. I'm not exactly saying that Miriael couldn't have just as well turned to Khorne if she were captured by, say, the World Eaters. I'm just not surprised by her ending up like she did, given the circumstance.

Lynata wrote:Miriael was captured by the Emperor's Children, she didn't just "switch sides" because she wanted to. Corruption is the only explanation for how one of the Order's best (according to her Canoness, and Miriael was a Sister Superior) could forsake everything she once held dear. Miriael Sabathiel's corruption is one of Chaos' greatest achievements (considering that this was considered impossible up until she showed up as a traitor), which is probably why she became a Champion of Slaanesh right away.

I would argue that corruption isn't something new to chaos, any Tom and Dick with a bit of oratory skill could persuade someone to join Chaos. Do we know how the dealio with the Emperors Children went down? Maybe Mirael was shown a great big Avon catalog and thought, hey screw this I like make - up, i wanna be a purtty girl, and jumped ship? I think it would be more of an achievement to get one of the most dedicated warriors of the Emperor to join the dark side ... willingly.

That's just me though.

It's not unheard of for the high and mighty to turn their back on the ideals that they hold dear, look at the heresy

Pilau Rice wrote:It's not unheard of for the high and mighty to turn their back on the ideals that they hold dear, look at the heresy

But that was corruption as well.

Also, does not corruption automatically imply that the subject switches sides willingly? Corruption isn't forcing someone to become a traitor, it's influencing them in a way that makes them end up thinking differently.

In a way, this also includes the distinct possibility of the Emperor's Children showing Miriael a big Avon catalogue.

Sisters aren't clergy. Ecclesiarchal clergymen do not live in anywhere REMOTELY the same lifestyle as Sisters do, nor do any modern clergymen.

Sisters live a life of supreme discipline and self-control. Sisters showing faults such as hedonism are trained out of it early on, and irredeemable cases are sent to the Repentia to earn their redemption.

Lynata wrote:But that was corruption as well.

Not all were corrupted, it was down to choice. Keep following the Emperor or join Horus. By the end, yeah they had been corrupted and it's quite apparent.

My point is that the corruption takes away your choice in the matter, it's a slow progressive thing that creeps up on you and you don't know wants gone on until it's to late. I like the idea that the Emperors Children said, hey we have this Avon catalogue and Cookies whereas your Emperor has Prayer pamphlets and Broccoli. Mirael took a brief moment to think on it and decided Cookies.

But I see what you are saying though, I suppose it's all one and the same thing when it comes down to it.

As I recall, the Sisters don't swear any vow of chastity - at least, not according to Ciaphas Cain, anyway. As I stated, warriors fall to Khorne, and thus Sisters probably would feel most at home there.


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Melissia wrote:That image is so horrendously stupid and wrong in so many ways >.<

No offense meant to the artist, but geeze do I hate that picture and I only just saw it now.

Boobs for the Blood God!
Wait, that makes no sense at all whatsoever. How does nakedness make you a better fighter?

Melissia wrote:Slaanesh is the one Sisters, if any were to actually fall, that would be LEAST likely. They do no live lives of excess or hedonism in the first place, quite the opposite in fact.

I respectfully disagree. I think Tzeentch would be the least likely. Psykers. Mutation. Just as Planned. These are the things that Sororitas stand against from a religious and devotional perspective. They use the denial of vice to instill discipline and control over themselves, but only so that they can better burn the Witch, kill the Heretic, and purge the Mutant. For Slaanesh to corrupt a Sister is an accomplishment worthy of bragging rights. For Tzeentch to corrupt a Sister is a feat akin to a certain Spawn of Ward carving his name in a Primarch's heart... ie: fluff-breaking by it's very nature.

Nurgle would be second least likely. Plagues and illness usually get the flamer treatment, and there's no doubt an infected Sororitas would give herself a promethium bath if she started developing spores, sores, and suppurations (Is that last one really a word? Probably not, but alliteration is kewl).

Khorne is not as unlikely as you might think. Lots of fighting for prolonged periods, with no time for proper devotional services to renew faith in the Emperor or provide psychological stability... some Sisters might find that to survive the Hell of grimdark war, they must become akin to demons...

Slaanesh is most likely. While the Sisters reject vice and pleasure, it is only as a means to an end, not as an end of itself. And Slaanesh isn't just the Chaos God of Porn (most critics of Slaanesh, and even some Slaaneshi players seem to forget this). He is the master of sensation and pleasure. Anything you enjoy physically or mentally can make you weak to his influence. Maybe the Repentia start to enjoy those minor wounds they pick up during a battle. It shows their devotion to their redemption! Every cut, burn, and laceration is joyfully recieved because it means they are serious about atoning for their sins and rejoining the Emperor's light! Eventually, the Sister starts to enjoy the injuries themselves, and not what they represent. Pretty soon, she's in her cell cutting herself... and one of the self-inflicted wounds has an awfully familiar shape to it...

And why single out Repentia? It's not just about cutting or BDSM. A regular Sister who gets stuck in a warzone such as the one described for Khorne might turn to Slaanesh, if she starts to enjoy killing. But wait, don't Khornites enjoy killing? Yes, but with them it's more of a "they LIVE to kill" thing, with a SLaaneshi devotee it's more of a "they LOVE to kill". If a Sister becomes very, very good at her job, taking pride in her work, and savoring the screams of the burning sinners... savoring to the point where she needs to change her power armor at an alarming rate... how long before she starts coming up with more and more creative ways to purge the Unclean?

So yeah, I say Slaanesh is the most likely. The fact that, officially, he's only scored one (while the others have scored a big fat zero) speaks volumes to the loyalty of the Sororitas.

As far as Slaanesh armies go (and Slaanesh Sisters go) the problem most people have with them is that players seem to forget it's "sex, drugs, and rock and roll" not just "sex". Slaanesh armies don't have to be all about the nipples. Although it is one of their defining features.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:Wait, that makes no sense at all whatsoever. How does nakedness make you a better fighter?

"Khorne cares not from whom the blood flows, as long as it flows."

Admittedly, getting stabbed and shot to death is going to produce a lower net of blood for old Skully, but hey-ho.

squidhills wrote:Slaanesh is most likely.

Most assuredly not. Sisters do no just reject pleasure or some other nonsense, they embrace humility and reject excess. Their very PURPOSE is tied in to this, as one of the reasons they were allowed to exist as the Ecclesiarchy's military arm is because they are to regulate the church to prevent this from happening to the church itself.

What you described looks more like a teenaged sexual power fantasy than anything regarding the Sisters fluff. Repentia don't "live to kill", they live to DIE. The entire purpose behind being a Repentia is the knowledge that they will die in battle and redeem themselves through the glory of death in the Emperor's service.