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Personally I have to say it comes down to time and money.

Just started a new gaming club and there are quite a few systems that people play, so I've got the motive it is literally just the opportunity (being time and money) I don't have.

I'm interested in Maulifaux, Warmachines, flames of war, secrets of third reich, blackpowder and possibly firestorm.

40k was the first game I picked up so time wise its cheapest for me (as i'm not having to try and learn something new) even if money wise its not plus with about 5000 points worth I can play a few different lists. I've had a beastman army since christmas and still haven't painted them or learn fantasy rules yet because I work full time and I'm in the process of buying a house

The most rescent game I got was Dust Tactics (awesome by the way) but I only could afford that with the money I made selling my xbox. It attracted me becasue it rule book is 24 pages long and I got two small armies for GBP 70.00. So it's pure win for me.

If your friends aren't into trying a new game try a local gaming club, you'll often find people playing games you might not even have heard of.

I tend to stick to GW games because I enjoy the background. Because of this, I'd be much more likely to start playing BFG than Firestorm Armada, even though I understand that BFG is not very well supported.

I have no burning desire to try every game out there. I'm pretty happy with the game I know.

In my experience, most games have terribly written background in comparison to GW. I appreciate that GW have had 20 years with lots of writers developing their universe and other games companies haven't, but that still doesn't mean I'll be sucked into the frankly awful background of something like Warmachine.

There are plenty of legit reasons not to try a new game, although if other players allow you to proxy using models you already own that takes a few of them away.

But ultimately I think part of it comes down to brand identity- the same thing that drives the "console wars". Adolescents get a Playstation or a Wii or whatever and then decide that their system must be the superior one, and everything about the other systems must be bad and everyone who plays games on the other system must be bad.

We see the same thing here when posters object to any criticism of certain game companies, or when posters refuse to accept that certain game companies are anything less than a fascist regime. It's a sad and silly way to invent a personal identity and a team to root for, but I suppose it's at least a step better than doing the same with your race or religion.

Of course, not everyone who objects to playing a new game are doing it out of their brand identity. But I bet the number who do is not small.

when trying to get my regular gaming partner to try a game I buy 2 starter sets. That way we have a set each to play with and pass back and forth. He does the same with his trials.

I am currently trading all my war machine stuff for GW 40k because I don't like war machine that much anymore. I'm enjoying my 40k and if that changes I'll do the same again, trade what I'm not playing with for stuff I want to play with.

Some of the best stuff Ive played has been free or very nearly free...

I strongly recommend giving things like pig tickling, battle crabs and frag a blast. A good way of getting people to broaden their horizons is to run a 30 minute session of something simple like battle crabs with all the other players in your clubs after they've finished their afternoon or evening of 40k. it's a good way of letting off steam and just having a giggle after a gruelling 40k or wfb session!

If you're going to try to get people to play a new game it's also critical that you have two equally balanced forces to show it off.

I always remember a guy who would show games off by putting his "uber cheesy" force against a basic starter force and tool them over completely. He'd then complain when nobody would buy the game or play against him. If you want people to play a game you need to show them all the cool stuff that makes it fun to play, not show them all the broken stuff that makes the most of flaws or holes in the system. I can recall similar problems with war machine in the beginning when everyone would see the khador starter set and plump for that as sorcha was so good..

Lp

ArbitorIan wrote:I tend to stick to GW games because I enjoy the background. Because of this, I'd be much more likely to start playing BFG than Firestorm Armada, even though I understand that BFG is not very well supported.

I have no burning desire to try every game out there. I'm pretty happy with the game I know.

In my experience, most games have terribly written background in comparison to GW. I appreciate that GW have had 20 years with lots of writers developing their universe and other games companies haven't, but that still doesn't mean I'll be sucked into the frankly awful background of something like Warmachine.

You don't seem to have read much Warmachine background. It's not only better written(from a technical stand point), it has a much more real feel for the setting and characters than the very impersonal GW way of presenting background. Personally, I'm kind of tired of GW's vague, folk-lorish style of writing where it's intentionally left as "is that how it really happened or is legend being presented as history?" told from a distant, administrative point of few. Plus, big points for an actual advancing storyline vs GW's 5 minutes to midnight.

I understand it's not to your taste, but it's not as "frankly awful" as you put forward.

Towards the thread, if someone doesn't want to try something new, they don't have to, their choice.

Platuan4th wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:I tend to stick to GW games because I enjoy the background. Because of this, I'd be much more likely to start playing BFG than Firestorm Armada, even though I understand that BFG is not very well supported.

I have no burning desire to try every game out there. I'm pretty happy with the game I know.

In my experience, most games have terribly written background in comparison to GW. I appreciate that GW have had 20 years with lots of writers developing their universe and other games companies haven't, but that still doesn't mean I'll be sucked into the frankly awful background of something like Warmachine.

You don't seem to have read much Warmachine background. It's not only better written(from a technical stand point), it has a much more real feel for the setting and characters than the very impersonal GW way of presenting background. Personally, I'm kind of tired of GW's vague, folk-lorish style of writing where it's intentionally left as "is that how it really happened or is legend being presented as history?" told from a distant, administrative point of few. Plus, big points for an actual advancing storyline vs GW's 5 minutes to midnight.

I understand it's not to your taste, but it's not as "frankly awful" as you put forward.

Towards the thread, if someone doesn't want to try something new, they don't have to, their choice.

Some people don't like Fantasy and some don't like Gothic sci-fi.

I enjoy both, but play one game more than the other.

malfred wrote:

Some people don't like Fantasy and some don't like Gothic sci-fi.

I enjoy both, but play one game more than the other.

Who said I don't like Gothic Sci-fi? Hell, I love 40K, I'm just tired of the way GW writes the fluff for it, and that, and GW's business practices and handling of customers, is unfortunately turning me off from playing lately. The misty, glazed version of the background in my memories is the only thing keeping me from stopping. That and my tons of armies.

I do get your point, hence my "I understand that it's not to your taste,". My irk was essentially dismissing it as bad because of that(I don't talk bad about Heroscape or Nirvana anymore because I realize my negative comments are mostly down to purely my taste).

scarletsquig wrote:It's a lot easier to get people interested in playing a game if they don't have to buy or paint any more figures or do anything other than just play it.

This sums it up for me. I am an adequate painter with perfectionist tendencies (so you know where that goes...lol) and any game that I have to assemble and paint immediately starts off with a negative. I really want to pick up Infinity, but I would have to assemble and paint more minis.

If games gave the option of a pre-painted "premium" purchase (like Dust Tactics has done), I would be much more tempted to pick up new games because I could buy, open, and play.

In my club it's all GW. It started out as only WFB like 15 years ago and 40K caught on slowly a few years later. We also do Mordheim and some BFG. After all these years they are just now starting to look into Warmachine. Some folks play other games, but unless they show up with 2 armies they're not gonna get anyone to play. We're all old guys that are too invested in GW stuff, and with the time and cost of starting a new army in a new game everyone is hesitant to do it because nothing else has really caught on.

There's so many great games out there that I wanna try, but I know I'll just be wasting my cash. I started Dust Tactics because it came with models for both armies, so I know I have all I need to play now. I highly doubt anyone else will be starting any Dust armies, so if I want to play I'll have to bring everything and pretty much teach the game to someone else every time I play.

I think just about everyone has covered how I feel fairly well, as far as the time/money argument. I want to bring up my friend though. My friend is a system hoarder. That is, he goes out, gets a system, and spends more time reading it, and then talks about how he got it and read it and how cool it looks, and then he buys another and repeats. He has 40k, Necromunda, Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, BFG, D&D 4E, 3.5E, 2E, Pathfinder, Alternity (every last book they ever made, including gamma world/dark matter), GURPS, HackMaster, and there's probably more. That's not counting the board games. One bedroom in his apartment is all gaming material, stacked around the room almost as thick as one can bear. He spends more time/money doing this than we (his other friends) have to play, because we try to live balanced, healthy lives where we don't just sit around, work or home, reading game system after game system.

He gets frustrated by the fact that we won't play more than 2 roleplaying games a week and ONLY want to play an occasional game of 40k. There's just no time for it. It's also worth mention that he's never actually INVESTED any depth into 40k. His Space Wolves are bare plastic, his Eldar are minimum 3 colors, because they were his 'tournament army', and his other armies are spraypainted. We had to bicker with him to get him to flock the Eldar (a single ballast) for Adepticon when he took them.

If I'm going to have hobbies that are time consuming/expensive, then I'm going to put my all into them, and get the most out of it. THAT'S why I roll my eyes at the "hey! let's switch to x" mentality when I see it come up. And HE'S the one who got us all into 40k to begin with.

Just gone back to the founding post of this thread.

sennacherib wrote:
This apathetic attitude extends to all things that are not GW and typical reasons why the players dont want to try a new game usually involve the money is gonna cost, learning new rules, but mostly it seems like they lack motivation or are just addicted to GW tit. it even extends to some games that GW does produce. I sold all of my LotR stuff because no one here would try the game, even though i had about 7 armeis painted and ready to go. Anyone have a similar experience.

Why is it an apathetic attitude if someone chooses not to agree with you?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sennacherib wrote: I think what it comes down to for me is the little kid syndrome. I dont want to try something different. And thats what really bugs.

Isnt moaning about the other kids not wanting to play with your toys the eaxact same thing?

Are my friends who will only play 40k donkey caves and childish? No, they enjoy what they are doing.

Would I be a donkey cave if i kept bugging them to play something else and kept disparaging them for their like of a certain game system? Yes!

People will move on when they want too.

Adam LongWalker wrote:

sennacherib wrote:@ Monster rain. I hear you. I have school and 5000$ medical bills for bone grafts i had to have.

you have insurance right?

Spoken like someone with little experience with the American 'system' of health care and health insurance.

It works like this: If you can actually afford the premiums of insurance that will cover that much medical expenses, you can probably afford the medical expenses in the first place.

If you can't afford that sort of premuims... well, my work offers el cheapo insurance that covers $300 worth of doctors visits a year - and that's about it, no hospitalization coverage AT ALL - for about $2600/year ($100 per biweekly paycheck) for a couple. And I'm going to have to take it, because of the 'compromise' Obama accepted with the Republicans, and because the next step up - with hospitalization coverage of $7K a year, which won't even cover a broken ankle - costs twice as much and is well out of my price range.

Whoops, getting well off subject...

sennacherib wrote:I just sold two armies for 40k and about 7 for LotR so i can afford to spend $80 on something new. Have an army sitting around Vulkan.

Four, actually, but I still enjoy playing all of them.

Vulcan wrote:

It works like this: If you can actually afford the premiums of insurance that will cover that much medical expenses, you can probably afford the medical expenses in the first place.

That's patently untrue. We could afford the Premiums for insurance if we needed to, but wouldn't be able to afford the emergency care we would need without insurance.

That said, we don't NEED to afford premiums because my wife is military and we get Insurance free.

As well, if you actually talk with an Insurance Rep(NOT an agent), you'll find you're able to afford premiums and plans that agents don't tell you about.

Havok210 wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:It's a lot easier to get people interested in playing a game if they don't have to buy or paint any more figures or do anything other than just play it.

This sums it up for me. I am an adequate painter with perfectionist tendencies (so you know where that goes...lol) and any game that I have to assemble and paint immediately starts off with a negative. I really want to pick up Infinity, but I would have to assemble and paint more minis.

Although with Infinity, you only have to paint a handful. And you have the bonus of knowing each model you do will be a unique sculpt in the force, and therefore can have more time lavished on it.

Platuan4th wrote:

Vulcan wrote:

It works like this: If you can actually afford the premiums of insurance that will cover that much medical expenses, you can probably afford the medical expenses in the first place.

That's patently untrue. We could afford the Premiums for insurance if we needed to, but wouldn't be able to afford the emergency care we would need without insurance.

That said, we don't NEED to afford premiums because my wife is military and we get Insurance free.

As well, if you actually talk with an Insurance Rep(NOT an agent), you'll find you're able to afford premiums and plans that agents don't tell you about.

Yeah, you're probably right, for most of the middle class anyway. For those of us whose college degrees have turned out to be useless pieces of paper, we're kinda screwed between college debt wrecking our credit, and crappy jobs pushing us further in... not so much. Bankrupcy would hurt me less than trying to pay off a hospital bill, which only makes the cost of health care worse, because the hospital would have to make up its expenses somewhere else... like a paying/insured customer.

But if we're going to continue this, I'm sure there is a better thread somewhere else...

I have WHFB and 40K, I don't want to get anymore systems, because I enjoy what I have, but that's just my view.

lukewild1982 wrote:I am constantly trying to get people to try out new games, although our gaming group is quite small now 2/3 are always really eager but there is one guy who is really closed to the idea unless he introduces it. It throughs a huge spanner in the works straight away and then nothing happens because of it.

Why should that one guy stop the rest of you from having a go at it?

Bat Manuel wrote:I think it's just "little kid syndrome." Where people don't want to try new things and like to stick with what they are comfortable with. It's like a little kid who thinks McDonalds is the best place to eat...ever. But if they tried something else, they might like it more.

I can see someone not wanting to invest money and time in a new game just to try it out, but if you've got the rules and you and your buddy can work out some proxies, but he still doesn't even want to try it....I don't know what to say. Is he just so set in his ways that he won't even try it?

It's like being really into batman, and someone gives you a whole bunch of superman comics.

Sure, you might read them, and they might be great comics. But what you REALLY wanted to read was some more batman.

Like I said before, I don't care HOW good Infinity Armada is right now, or how well it's supported, or if I can play it with proxies or whatever. Doesn't matter a damn. Because I can't play it and still have Marines and Eldar and Orks in space.

sennacherib wrote:I think what it comes down to for me is the little kid syndrome. I dont want to try something different. And thats what really bugs.

No, it more likely comes down to people LIKING something else more.

Sure, the 'new' game might be great, maybe they WOULD like it mor

Monster Rain wrote:I'm barely keeping my 40k hobby alive between work and school and the family.

Another game is out of the question.

*This

I'm already invested both monetarily and in the universe itself in addition to not having enough time for completing projects/playing like i want to. I'm not feverishly opposed to non GW though, it's just that that's what i have and know.

sennacherib wrote: Anyone have a similar experience.

Im trying to get my friends into RPG with deathwatch but there not interested, I want to play as the games master as I think it would be so cool and its way cheaper than 40k but since we all have never played an RPG they don't want to play.

I think its very annoying as they want to get into warmachine or fantasy

A few possible strategies from someone whose game club is almost entirely non-GW.

1) You're going to have to buy two factions to start. Trying to get players for almost any game that's not a big-name game will require you to have the rules down, have two painted factions (appearance counts) and be willing to act as a sort of promoter. Most folks who are even a little reticent about a new game aren't interested in proxying. The guy who introduced me to my first non-GW fantasy game provided several well-painted warbands for me to choose from.


2) Start small and cheap. A person's first step out of their current game bubble often has to be a very small step. Our first step was Song of Blades and Heroes. A generic (more on this later) warband fantasy game that allows you to stat up any fantasy miniature and game, also the rules are 5 bucks. Even those without any fantasy figures may find it easy when they only have to acquire 9-14 figures and they don't have to pay GW/Privateer prices per fig.

3) Consider generics. Generic games allow you to stat up any figures you already have. This is different from proxying in that you can stat the figures the way you feel they should be rather than using them to represent something they might not be equivalent to. Generic games are also usually quite cheap.

4) Get creative. Anything you can do to lower the bar to entry is a good idea. When we wanted to get our club into Future War Commander, my friend and I bought bulk amounts of second-hand mechwarrior clix figures, bulk hex bases for rebasing and large quantities of my magic mud basing compound (paint with lots of texture additive) and made packs available to our members at cost. When you make it possible for someone to have a pre-painted (each pack had one faciton only) 30 unit army including the bases and a jar of basing material for 25 bucks, it's easy to get folks to invest in a new system.

In short, unless you find people who are already looking for something outside GW, you will have to do more than just ask.

The more folks invest in something, the less likely they are to look for something, and if there's one thing GW players have, is alot of investment ($ and time) in GW. Further GW has a long history, a huge built-in playerbase, and wide acceptance and that's alot to overcome.

Some people just dont want to waste time/money on "flash-in-the-pan" games. Very few non-GW games survive long term. You have a few like Battletech, but I have gotten burned on so many games that have come and gone that I can empathize with people's lack of desire to try non-GW games.

I think Warmahordes (Privateer Press) is without a doubt the strongest contender to potentially survive long term that has come around in the past 15 years or so, and yet i don't think that it has achieved bulletproof status yet...

A number of games that are enjoying popularity currently I think are "Dead men walking" to be honest, and evem though I can't resist the urge to get into Dust, part of me knows I am throwing money at a game that I bet will be RIP in 2-3 years if I was a betting man.

When I look at all the money I invested in SST, Warzone, Vor, Confro, etc. I feel that it would have been money better spent on another 40K army, and so I don't think simply calling people "apathetic" is all that accurate or fair given the documented history of this industry and the bones of non-GW games that had high hopes and yet now litter the side of the road...

There have been some really good comments in the thread, especially the ones about money, time and brand identity.

In my experience in life there are some people who like to live in a bubble sometimes regarding their preferences and will be unwilling to step out of that bubble to try anything new. It sounds like the people in the OP fall into this category as it looks like they’re unwilling to step outside the big brands. It strikes me odd that when they found that their wargamming hobby with GW products was getting boring, rather than try out a different company, they move onto an unrelated big brand hobby altogether. It seems that the people in the OP are the hard core big brand dedicated type if you ask me.

I actually willingly picked up Warmachine after being a 40k player. Bought up a Menoth starter box. Ended up trading it for a hive tyrant to start my tyranid army. I hate the game. Line of sight drove me insane as well as a few other details. Now, it's really hard to make me buy into a new game. A friend FINALLY convinced me to try heroclix by giving me some models. I'd gladly invest in another game that I enjoy as much as 40k, I just have yet to find anything other than 40k when it comes to miniatures... I play evey card game in existance though.

Edit: I also love Warhammer Fantasy, it's fun. WoW minis is by far my second favorite game system, but I have little luck finding other players.

I've been trying to convert my GW only friend to Warmachine. It's not going so well.

I've been trying to get my friends to try out the rules system for a skirmish game I've been developing but none of them so far has shown much interest. They can even use their pre-existing Warhammer figures but no. The closest I've come is one of my friends said he would watch me play as long as I could find someone else.

On a much sadder note play-testing your fledgling skirmish game with your 7 month old child is not as fun as it sounds.

I'd love to get into Warmachine though. I've got another opponent who is tired of losing with his Orcs and told me he wasn't going to play anymore. Maybe I can convince him to switch systems.

i gotta admit, it took some work for me to turn to warmachine. i was a staunch 40k player for yeears, but once i sat down and actually learned warmachine i found the game to be more immersive and tactical.

3 years later 40k is dead to me.

now im playing warmachine as my main, with malifaux and WHFB as secondary games.

of course this is all subjective, it will draw priase from those who like branching out and ire from those who stand by 40k.

Platuan4th wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:I tend to stick to GW games because I enjoy the background. Because of this, I'd be much more likely to start playing BFG than Firestorm Armada, even though I understand that BFG is not very well supported.

I have no burning desire to try every game out there. I'm pretty happy with the game I know.

In my experience, most games have terribly written background in comparison to GW. I appreciate that GW have had 20 years with lots of writers developing their universe and other games companies haven't, but that still doesn't mean I'll be sucked into the frankly awful background of something like Warmachine.

You don't seem to have read much Warmachine background. It's not only better written(from a technical stand point), it has a much more real feel for the setting and characters than the very impersonal GW way of presenting background. Personally, I'm kind of tired of GW's vague, folk-lorish style of writing where it's intentionally left as "is that how it really happened or is legend being presented as history?" told from a distant, administrative point of few. Plus, big points for an actual advancing storyline vs GW's 5 minutes to midnight.

I understand it's not to your taste, but it's not as "frankly awful" as you put forward.

Towards the thread, if someone doesn't want to try something new, they don't have to, their choice.

While you're correct that the Warmachine writing is superior, etc. I personally find that it doesn't captivate me as much as the 40k/Fantasy (especially Fantasy) settings. I have difficulty relating to the characters/the setting in general most times and the ongoing plotlines just haven't really drawn me in. In fact, I mostly just gloss over the fluff and go straight to the rules in the books. I think it has something to do with the lack of actual separate fiction sources available for the setting (I.E. novelizations).

Anyway, I play the following:
40k
Fantasy
Warmachine
Uncharted Seas
Battlefleet Gothic
Babylon 5 A Call to Arms
Victory at Sea

I am starting (I.E. I own stuff but haven't got around to it yet):
Malifaux
Flames of War

I intend to play:
Infinity
Firestorm Armada
Hell Dorado
Dust Tactics/Dust Warfare
Mercs
Hordes

I own rulebooks for:
Wargods of Aegyptus
Warhammer Historical: The Great War

Plan to purchase materials for:
Tomorrows War
Secrets of the Third Reich
AE-WWII


Why so many? The way I see it, it gives me options. I love gaming, why restrict myself to one? By doing so I would ruin my enjoyment of it (I think). Face it, you can only do something for so long before you're sick of it (primary reason why my armies are never painted, lol). Besides that, I'm writing some of my own rulesets, I like to analyze other peoples for ideas and style, try to figure out why they decided on certain mechanics, etc.

40k will remain my primary game, for now, simply because it is the most dominant in my area, but interestingly enough, of the games I currently play, I find that I enjoy it the least. Whats even sadder is that a large chunk of my 40k group also plays Warmachine/Hordes/Uncharted/Firestorm/etc. but they very rarely break any of those games out.

Another influence is tastes.

I've looked over Warmachine. I've looked over the rules. I've even watched several games. It's sorta...meh to me. I can't get excited about it.

A big part of that is because I enjoy maneuvering blocks of troops around. Skirmish games have little to no attraction, because the maneuver aspect is so... trivialized. Move x inches, no need to worry about turning, facing, fire arcs, nothing. Just move.

I also find Steampunk to be either a terrible bore or terribly overdone.


If I had the money to spare, I'd start Firestorm Armada. Dystopian Wars, even though it is pretty much the exact same rules set, bores me. It may well be that again that my apathy for Steampunk makes all the difference.

Some have suggested that its childish of me to bemoan the fact that my freind wont try to play a new game with me. Im not sure thats an accurate assesment of whats going on. He isnt playing 40k right now because hes bored with it, and hes unwilling to even try a new game. THATS whats annoying to me. Unwillingness to try somthing new. I have heard plenty of bemoaning how his army sucks because chaos dosnt have a good dex etc, and imperials get all the win (partially true but he avoids the best units and self penalizes himself) but seriously when you arent gaming other than playing MTG because your board and you wont try somthin new, its just annoying.

When i was a kid i wouldnt eat mexican food for any reason unless it was a plain cheese quesadilla. When i finally grew up enough to start trying new things i tried an enchillada. I distinctly remember how upset i was that i hadnt tried it years ealier because it was so good. It is still my FAVORITE mexican food out there. In fact i found out that tacos and the rest of it were all pretty awsome. Since that day i have not bought a quesadilla . Maybe thats what my buddy is afraid of, finding out that the world is full of good stuff and that sticking to what is safe and familiar has narrowed his horizons. Other freinds of mine are always open to try something new but some people remain fixed in their ways, ignoring so much of the world out of conviction, or brand loyalty or whatever.

BTW i do have insurance and the $45oo dollars was after that, and i am selling off the majority of my GW stuff not because i am quitting gaming, but because i am bored with it, or because no body plays (LotR) that system here, or out of the desire to try something new.
i play a host of games and always have. Battlelore, Race for the Galaxy, etc.

Vulcan wrote:

A big part of that is because I enjoy maneuvering blocks of troops around. Skirmish games have little to no attraction, because the maneuver aspect is so... trivialized. Move x inches, no need to worry about turning, facing, fire arcs, nothing. Just move.

Movement, proximity and facing are vital in Warmachine and the movment phase and consideration of facing (Models have front and rear arcs which effect what they can attack, if they can charge, and can potentially give opponents bonuses to hit for rear strikes) is a very important part of the game.

In addition models can be knocked down which is an added level of consideration tied to movement and attack bonuses, etc..

On top of that the placement of models in relation to friendlies in order to benefit from spells and abilities makes movement and position pivitol to victory a lot of the time.

Your above quote suggets that you know very little about Warmachine...