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Tigerone wrote:Key point.

There is a drastic difference between living with a low income and living in real poverty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States

Please learn about what you're talking about before choosing to talk about it.

Tigerone wrote:There is a drastic difference between living with a low income and living in real poverty

That depends on what you define as low income. Personally I find incomes lower than sixty grand a year to be pretty low (then again, I really don't want to live off of 30 grand a year so I'm using government assistance to help get a college degree without burdening myself with too many loans)... course, you might think that someone has to earn 12 grand a year or less to be "low".

Please do not spam the forum. Thanks ~ Manchu

It all depends on what your definition of poor is. My definition is you do not have enough to eat and no place to sleep not I can’t afford hot pockets and gears of war 3.


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WOW! Youth at its best!

Melissia wrote:That depends on what you define as low income. Personally I find incomes lower than sixty grand a year to be pretty low (then again, I really don't want to live off of 30 grand a year so I'm using government assistance to help get a college degree without burdening myself with too many loans)... course, you might think that someone has to earn 12 grand a year or less to be "low".

Wait, 30 grand per year is low? Holy cow!

I lived on ~$15k/year while I was in college (exempting tuition) and that was maybe 5 years ago. Still had money to go to the bar (occasionally) and waste money on frivilous things (like toy soldiers).

Of course, I didn't have a cell phone, internet connection, cable, or a lot of other 'necessities.'

Tigerone wrote:So it was not hot in Texas pre 1970?

Actually, air conditioning is a warranty of habitability requirement in Texas, similar to heat as a requirement in the north. Its uder the theory that if you don't have it, you die. That may have changed since the Millennia since I was in law school.

Melissia wrote:

Tigerone wrote:There is a drastic difference between living with a low income and living in real poverty

That depends on what you define as low income. Personally I find incomes lower than sixty grand a year to be pretty low (then again, I really don't want to live off of 30 grand a year so I'm using government assistance to help get a college degree without burdening myself with too many loans)... course, you might think that someone has to earn 12 grand a year or less to be "low".

You think 60 is "pretty low"? You realise thats a good wage for a family right? I make less than that and I can own a home, 2 cars, take care of 3 kids and go on 2 vacations a year and still have 0 debt.

Low income is sub 20k to me. Even at 30k people can make due IF THEY SO CHOOSE.

Melchiour wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Tigerone wrote:There is a drastic difference between living with a low income and living in real poverty

That depends on what you define as low income. Personally I find incomes lower than sixty grand a year to be pretty low (then again, I really don't want to live off of 30 grand a year so I'm using government assistance to help get a college degree without burdening myself with too many loans)... course, you might think that someone has to earn 12 grand a year or less to be "low".

You think 60 is "pretty low"? You realise thats a good wage for a family right? I make less than that and I can own a home, 2 cars, take care of 3 kids and go on 2 vacations a year and still have 0 debt.

Low income is sub 20k to me. Even at 30k people can make due IF THEY SO CHOOSE.

really depends on Cost of living...

Those states aren't Conservative, and therefore likely GOP voters, because of GOP influence. They are Conservative, and therefore likely GOP voters, because they are poor. In the developed world Conservatism tends to follow from relative poverty, in the developing world this also holds true, but not in the sense we normally associate with political spectra.

Melchiour wrote:You think 60 is "pretty low"?

It depends on where you live, but yeah. The lowest I'd say is the upper part of poor is 26k, which is the median income for all American families.

That's right, more people make less than 30k than make more than 30k. I want more for myself, heh. Call me greedy.

Frazzled wrote:
Actually, air conditioning is a warranty of habitability requirement in Texas, similar to heat as a requirement in the north. Its uder the theory that if you don't have it, you die. That may have changed since the Millennia since I was in law school.

It is, as far as I know, the same way in AZ and NM. Though, strangely, water rights do not fall under the same classification; at least in AZ.

In my best 13 years old whinny voice…But I want it now! Sacrifice and work for something?!?!? No Mommy (government) gives it to me right now! I NEED a new Xbox and plasma in my room!

biccat wrote:
Wait, 30 grand per year is low? Holy cow!

I lived on ~$15k/year while I was in college (exempting tuition) and that was maybe 5 years ago. Still had money to go to the bar (occasionally) and waste money on frivilous things (like toy soldiers).

Of course, I didn't have a cell phone, internet connection, cable, or a lot of other 'necessities.'

30k per year would be grazing the poverty line everywhere I've ever lived barring my current residence.

Melissia wrote:

Melchiour wrote:You think 60 is "pretty low"?

It depends on where you live, but yeah. The lowest I'd say is the upper part of poor is 26k, which is the median income for all American families.

That's right, more people make less than 30k than make more than 30k. I want more for myself, heh. Call me greedy.

Taco Bell down the street has a sign hiring full time at 15 an hour. That's 31k a year.

Melchiour wrote:Taco Bell down the street has a sign hiring full time at 15 an hour.

Lucky you. Here, Taco Bell and other fast food joints hire for six bucks an hour. Wal-Mart might hire for seven (that's how much I was paid, anyway).

Oh, and usually only twenty to thirty hours a week, not fourty. No opportunity for extra hours or overtime. Quite a few people have to hold down two jobs just to break 20k a year.

Tigerone wrote:In my best 13 years old whinny voice…But I want it now! Sacrifice and work for something?!?!? No Mommy (government) gives it to me right now! I NEED a new Xbox and plasma in my room!

But seriously, that's a lame argument.


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Melchiour wrote:
Taco Bell down the street has a sign hiring full time at 15 an hour. That's 31k a year.

Do you think that, because its Taco Bell, they would hire anyone?

Besides, according to them, I'm overqualified so they won't hire me. Wal-Mart has no problems with hiring college students, so I worked there instead. For seven bucks an hour.

Melissia wrote:Besides, according to them, I'm overqualified so they won't hire me. Wal-Mart has no problems with hiring college students, so I worked there instead. For seven bucks an hour.

Wal-Mart isn't a bad gig as long as you know its temporary, or you're "retired". Their bad customer service works in favor of the peons. Target is better, though.

Attitude goes a long way.

Yeah, I'd rather work at Albertsons or Target, myself. Both have a far more pleasant and laid back attitude in the store.

Seem to have one WORKING there too, given what my friends who work in there have said.

Tigerone wrote:Attitude goes a long way.

And where does that leave you?

Tigerone wrote:Attitude goes a long way.

Not long enough. When there's no opportunity, there's no opportunity. Big companies aren't hiring right now, they're just sitting on their money waiting for it to get better despite the government practically licking their boots. Small businesses are still being neglected by Washington, especially Republicans whom have fought tooth and nail against any small business packages.

Where does it leave me? CEO land thats where.

Melissia wrote:Yeah, I'd rather work at Albertsons or Target, myself. Both have a far more pleasant and laid back attitude in the store.

There's a store by my parents' spot, Woodmans' I think, that's ostensibly employee owned ("employee" being people in the corporate office). Best grocery I've ever been in, their baggers make something 225% minimum, it pays to pay.

Tigerone wrote:Where does it leave me? CEO land thats where.

Attitude alone won't get you a position at CEO.

You also need a great deal of luck and social connections.

Tigerone wrote:Where does it leave me? CEO land thats where.

I'm a CEO too, but since there's no other officers in my LLC it doesn't mean much.

Tigerone wrote:Where does it leave me? CEO land thats where.

Tigerone wrote:I spend close to 5k a year just playing golf that does not include the clubs….

5k a year huh? on a hobby... Must be nice

I'm pretty sure you've got no clue what it is like to live paycheck to paycheck... am I right?

dogma wrote:30k per year would be grazing the poverty line everywhere I've ever lived barring my current residence.

Largely irrelevant. I've been able to live comfortably on far less than that (as a single person), so I'm not sure how you could make the claim that $30k/year is "impovershed."

Sure you have to put up with roommates and eat a lot of cheap food, but it's not as if you're lacking in basic necessities.

Melissia wrote:especially Republicans whom have fought tooth and nail against any small business packages.

I'm not sure where you're getting your facts from, but could you let the rest of us know?

biccat wrote:I'm not sure where you're getting your facts from, but could you let the rest of us know?

I sent an email to both of my senators and my representative in support of a small business package that went to congress a few years ago.

All three responded with nearly identical form letters effectively saying "it was proposed by a Democrat, so we oppose it."

biccat wrote:

dogma wrote:30k per year would be grazing the poverty line everywhere I've ever lived barring my current residence.

Largely irrelevant. I've been able to live comfortably on far less than that (as a single person), so I'm not sure how you could make the claim that $30k/year is "impovershed."

Sure you have to put up with roommates and eat a lot of cheap food, but it's not as if you're lacking in basic necessities.

I'm not sure where you're getting your facts from, but could you let the rest of us know?

So... you're saying that if people can have room mates they aren't poor because now they can afford basic neccessities?

I'm pretty sure your argument defeats itself here....

If you can't be independent of a govt, or any other person (room mates) you're pretty much poor....