10 things you should know about every codex (compiled lists in OP)

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**Grimgob**

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Ghenghis Jon wrote:
warboss_Russ! wrote:Orks:
2 - If a battlewagon RAMS, it can roll your vehicle, counts as moving cruising speed regardless of actual movement and tank shocks units on the way.

I had a huge debate on the YMTC forum about the speed of any Ramming Vehicle. Pg 68, par 6, line 2, TANKS: Tank Shock!: "The vehicle must move at least combat speed". My argument was that they should be considered as having moved at top speed no matter how far they moved, but I cannot come up with an argument to convince the rules lawyers who think that distance traveled is the absolute measurement of speed. If you have an idea that I haven't tried, please let me know.

Simply because if you only move 3" that sure as heck isn't 12"

Actually... If your tank shocking troops and declare movement 6" or less you may shoot 1weapon/troops/defensive weapons but if you ram a vehicle it states under the heading Ramming that you must drive top speed and may not shot in that turns shooting phase.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shadowseer_Kim wrote:Reguarding TankShock or Ramming. If the Vehicle doing the attack moves less than Flatout, you may still fire weapons as normal after the tankshock/ram.

Eldar List
#1 Psychic powers are done before any movement, except of course the ones in the shooting phase.
#2 If you get a peril of the warp, you must reroll the successful ghosthelm save unless you fortuned yourself first.
#3 If a peril makes it past the ghost helm, you get your invuln save.
#4 If you have an Embolden Warlock with your Farseer, don't forget to reroll all failed psychic tests and avoid #2 and #3
#5 Begin every List with Eldrad
#6 Harlequins do not roll for moving or assaulting through cover, ever.
#7 Fortune your Avatar
#8 Eldrad is no slouch in CC
#9 Yes Swooping Hawks can bounce off the table right after tossing a pie plate template, if they have Skyleap.
#10 Take cheapest load out for tanks, on average they will be shaken every turn, if you took the stones and holofields.

#11 Note to self, Guiding a vehicle with twin linked weapons is a real waste of a pyschic power.

A side note to #6 is that they still must take dangerous terrain tests.

**CageUF**

Avatar 720 wrote:CSM:
1) Lash of Submission is not a psychic shooting attack.
2) Obliterators are Slow and Purposeful, which also means they can move or deep strike and fire a heavy weapon in the same turn.
3) Obliterators do not have Terminator Armour, they simply have a 2+ save as standard and can therefore Sweeping Advance.
4) Plague Marines are T4(5) not T5.
5) Warptime and Gift of Chaos are used at the start of the turn (or turns in the case of Warptime), before movement.
6) Chaos Land Raiders do not have PotMS.
7) Defilers have the Fleet USR.
8) Chaos Terminators are not Fearless.
9) The Chaos Terminator Champion upgrade can be taken on as many terminators as are in the squad, it is not a unqiue squad leader upgrade like Aspiring Champions are.
10) Chaos Space Marines have Bolters, Bolt Pistols, and CCWs as standard.

1) Inat FAQ says it is (to clarify it says that you need to roll to hit with it), personally I agree with you though...

11) Berserkers have furious charge, but that only lasts for 1 round.
12) Defilers are BS3 and cannot shoot anything else if they use their battlecannon.

**nkelsch**

The ork list should at least mention Snikrot in some way, both in how he can and will be in your backfield auto-hitting tanks and how he can sneak ICs there too.

Too many people think Snik and Mad Dok simply have outflank and rage and then get mad when they have something similar but different which then results in half their army being killed.

**azgrim**

INAT doesnt mean anything.

**Sazzlefrats**

With regard to the FAQ. Its the 40k main rule book faq, and it says its a shooting psychic attack if it has a profile like a shooting attack. (i.e. has a range, strength and AP
value). Pretty much if, its has all those components its a shooting attack. And therefore if its a shooting attack then it must roll to hit. I'm not seeing that other than having range and done in the shooting phase and in place of other shooting attacks that it qualifies as a psychic shooting attack. So its not, it just happens to share some qualities. On the other hand Bolt of Change is defiantly a psychic shooting attack. It has range, strength and AP.

Anyhow its been a while since I have looked at my chaos codex, and it probably says something eye opening and equally saddening :p So don't quote me just yet :p

CageUF wrote:
Avatar 720 wrote:CSM:
1) Lash of Submission is not a psychic shooting attack.
2) Obliterators are Slow and Purposeful, which also means they can move or deep strike and fire a heavy weapon in the same turn.
3) Obliterators do not have Terminator Armour, they simply have a 2+ save as standard and can therefore Sweeping Advance.
4) Plague Marines are T4(5) not T5.
5) Warptime and Gift of Chaos are used at the start of the turn (or turns in the case of Warptime), before movement.
6) Chaos Land Raiders do not have PotMS.
7) Defilers have the Fleet USR.
8) Chaos Terminators are not Fearless.
9) The Chaos Terminator Champion upgrade can be taken on as many terminators as are in the squad, it is not a unqiue squad leader upgrade like Aspiring Champions are.
10) Chaos Space Marines have Bolters, Bolt Pistols, and CCWs as standard.

1) Inat FAQ says it is (to clarify it says that you need to roll to hit with it), personally I agree with you though...

11) Berserkers have furious charge, but that only lasts for 1 round.
12) Defilers are BS3 and cannot shoot anything else if they use their battlecannon.

**Avatar 720**

CageUF wrote:
Avatar 720 wrote:CSM:
1) Lash of Submission is not a psychic shooting attack.
2) Obliterators are Slow and Purposeful, which also means they can move or deep strike and fire a heavy weapon in the same turn.
3) Obliterators do not have Terminator Armour, they simply have a 2+ save as standard and can therefore Sweeping Advance.
4) Plague Marines are T4(5) not T5.
5) Warptime and Gift of Chaos are used at the start of the turn (or turns in the case of Warptime), before movement.
6) Chaos Land Raiders do not have PotMS.
7) Defilers have the Fleet USR.
8) Chaos Terminators are not Fearless.
9) The Chaos Terminator Champion upgrade can be taken on as many terminators as are in the squad, it is not a unqiue squad leader upgrade like Aspiring Champions are.
10) Chaos Space Marines have Bolters, Bolt Pistols, and CCWs as standard.

1) Inat FAQ says it is (to clarify it says that you need to roll to hit with it), personally I agree with you though...

Official GW FAQ>Inat FAQ, and the GW FAQ gives more specific details as to what makes a psychic power a psychic shooting attack:

Q: What psychic powers count as psychic shooting
attacks? (p50)
A: Any psychic power with a profile like that of a
ranged weapon (i.e. has a range, strength and AP
value) and any psychic power that specifically states
that it is a psychic shooting attack.

Lash of Submission has neither the profile of a ranged attack, nor a clause that specifically states it, unlike Bolt of Change and Doombolt, both of which have ranged profiles. By extentsion, it also means that neither Wind of Chaos nor Nurgle's Rot are shooting attacks either, since they also lack ranged profiles and a specific clause; the 'instead of firing another ranged weapon' clause is not specific, as it does not state that it is a psychic shooting attack, at the most it's only a hint.

**Phazael**

Tyranids-
1) If they sit in cover, tactical marines will win combat against every infantry unit in the army because we are an assault army without grenades.
2) Units have to arrive on the correct turn for the reserve tunnels to work for both the Mawlock and the Trygon.
3) The Tyrant can use cover like infantry when it is with Tyrant Guard.
4) Lash Whips will still allow furious chargers and GKs with Halberds to swing at Ini 2 and 3.
5) There is almost no way to bennefit from the Lictor reserves bonus.
6) The reserves bonus from the Tyrant is mandatory when purchases.
7) Synapse is not a psychic power and creatures with that rule are not all psychers.
8) Hormagaunts are no longer beasts and can assault units on the second floor of a ruin.
9) Hive Guard do not negate cover generated from war gear sources.
10) Robbin Cruddice really hates wound allocation and monsterous creatures.

**IronfrontAlex**

Avatar 720 wrote:CSM:
1) Lash of Submission is not a psychic shooting attack.
2) Obliterators are Slow and Purposeful, which also means they can move or deep strike and fire a heavy weapon in the same turn.
3) Obliterators do not have Terminator Armour, they simply have a 2+ save as standard and can therefore Sweeping Advance.
4) Plague Marines are T4(5) not T5.
5) Warptime and Gift of Chaos are used at the start of the turn (or turns in the case of Warptime), before movement.
6) Chaos Land Raiders do not have PotMS.
7) Defilers have the Fleet USR.
8) Chaos Terminators are not Fearless.
9) The Chaos Terminator Champion upgrade can be taken on as many terminators as are in the squad, it is not a unqiue squad leader upgrade like Aspiring Champions are.
10) Chaos Space Marines have Bolters, Bolt Pistols, and CCWs as standard.

GAH FETH YOU BEAT ME TO THIS!

i had all this in my head lastnight and was going to post... ahah kudos!

**nosferatu1001**

Chaos - Lash is NOT a PSA, INAT are simply 100% wrong on this matter. It used to be a PSA, then GW up and changed the definition of a PSA. Lash is not, now, a PSA. No ifs, buts or maybes.

Ramming - if you move 0 - 6" you have moved combat speed. Thats it. No "rules lawyer" pejoratives required, the rules are rigth there in plain sight: your actual movement is what counts. So if you ram less than 6" you CAN let passengers shoot out, RAW.

**Polonius**

As always, keep in mind that the more assertively a rules argument is made, the more likey it is that different groups will play it different ways.

I'd suggest that rather than try to point out rules interpretations as fact, point out that rules controversies exist and that players should check with a TO before a game.

I'd rather know to ask the TO how he rules Lash, than "know" that it isn't a PSA.

**nosferatu1001**

ASking is certainly a good thing - however the rules on this have no other interpretaton possible, thanks to the FAQ. You have to consciously change the rules frmo wha tthe FAQ tells you, or not be aware of the FAQ, to assert differently.

Lash isnt a PSA.

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

Grimgob wrote:
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Ghenghis Jon wrote:
warboss_Russ! wrote:Orks:
2 - If a battlewagon RAMS, it can roll your vehicle, counts as moving cruising speed regardless of actual movement and tank shocks units on the way.

I had a huge debate on the YMTC forum about the speed of any Ramming Vehicle. Pg 68, par 6, line 2, TANKS: Tank Shock!: "The vehicle must move at least combat speed". My argument was that they should be considered as having moved at top speed no matter how far they moved, but I cannot come up with an argument to convince the rules lawyers who think that distance traveled is the absolute measurement of speed. If you have an idea that I haven't tried, please let me know.

Simply because if you only move 3" that sure as heck isn't 12"

Actually... If your tank shocking troops and declare movement 6" or less you may shoot 1weapon/troops/defensive weapons but if you ram a vehicle it states under the heading Ramming that you must drive top speed and may not shot in that turns shooting phase.

actually, its "move at the highest speed its capable of"69 BGB
If it can only move 3" than 3" it is. There is also the restriction stating the vehicle may not shoot. However embarked passengers may fire if it moved 6"<

**Polonius**

nosferatu1001 wrote:ASking is certainly a good thing - however the rules on this have no other interpretaton possible, thanks to the FAQ. You have to consciously change the rules frmo wha tthe FAQ tells you, or not be aware of the FAQ, to assert differently.

Lash isnt a PSA.

Unless you're at an event that uses the INAT.

In which case no matter how "correct" you may be, you're still wrong.

Which is why being aware of the question is more important than being confident in your answer.

**olympia**

The INAT ruling was an intentional nerf.

**Polonius**

olympia wrote:The INAT ruling was an intentional nerf.

The INAT is like any commitee created document: sometimes wierd things appear.

I'd still suggest the following thing to know about the chaos book:
* Lash of Submission is generally not a psychic shooting attack, and does not need to roll to hit. Events using INAT do consider it a psychic shooting attack, so be aware.

**nosferatu1001**

Polonus - making INAT an intentional change to the rules. They also publish an FAQ document meaning you can find out the rules changes beforehand, making this a moot point.

Lash isnt a PSA, unless you change the rules so it is. Same as Ramming is a type of Tank Shock, unless you change the rules so it isnt.

**Polonius**

nosferatu1001 wrote:Polonus - making INAT an intentional change to the rules. They also publish an FAQ document meaning you can find out the rules changes beforehand, making this a moot point.

Lash isnt a PSA, unless you change the rules so it is. Same as Ramming is a type of Tank Shock, unless you change the rules so it isnt.

Are you saying it's a bad idea to ask the TO about how he runs it?

If you are, than we're in disagreement. And you are wrong, because you dont' understand the simple rule that TOs can override any rule they please. Many TOs are unfamiliar with all FAQs. Not all publicize that they use the INAT. Your antipathy aside, the INAT is out there.

If you aren't, than you can stop arguing the actual merits of this, because 1) it's not relevant, and 2) I don't care.

All anybody needs to know is that there are TOs that will say that Lash is a PSA.

**Grimgob**

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Grimgob wrote:
jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Ghenghis Jon wrote:
warboss_Russ! wrote:Orks:
2 - If a battlewagon RAMS, it can roll your vehicle, counts as moving cruising speed regardless of actual movement and tank shocks units on the way.

I had a huge debate on the YMTC forum about the speed of any Ramming Vehicle. Pg 68, par 6, line 2, TANKS: Tank Shock!: "The vehicle must move at least combat speed". My argument was that they should be considered as having moved at top speed no matter how far they moved, but I cannot come up with an argument to convince the rules lawyers who think that distance traveled is the absolute measurement of speed. If you have an idea that I haven't tried, please let me know.

Simply because if you only move 3" that sure as heck isn't 12"

Actually... If your tank shocking troops and declare movement 6" or less you may shoot 1weapon/troops/defensive weapons but if you ram a vehicle it states under the heading Ramming that you must drive top speed and may not shot in that turns shooting phase.

actually, its "move at the highest speed its capable of"69 BGB
If it can only move 3" than 3" it is. There is also the restriction stating the vehicle may not shoot. However embarked passengers may fire if it moved 6"<

Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Ramming - if you move 0 - 6" you have moved combat speed. Thats it. No "rules lawyer" pejoratives required, the rules are rigth there in plain sight: your actual movement is what counts. So if you ram less than 6" you CAN let passengers shoot out, RAW.

Except its in the small rule book pg.69 clearly stated under the Heading Ramming and it says "that you may not shoot that turn". If you ignore that text you are exactly "rules lawyering". Please take this to the YMDC section.

**warboss_Russ!**

nosferatu1001 wrote:Ramming - if you move 0 - 6" you have moved combat speed. Thats it. No "rules lawyer" pejoratives required, the rules are rigth there in plain sight: your actual movement is what counts. So if you ram less than 6" you CAN let passengers shoot out, RAW.

Actually, JD and Nos are right on the money. The rules are very clear on this one, determining how far a vehicle moved is the actual movement. There is no rider in the ramming section that says it "counts as" moving faster, just that it has to move as far as it CAN... which if it thumps in to your Land Raider after 2 inches and fails to explode it... is 2 inches.

Just goes to show how clear and concise GWs rules are that I'm still learning things about them after ramming people with battlewagons for over a year...

My OP edited to remove LIES

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grimgob wrote:

Except its in the small rule book pg.69 clearly stated under the Heading Ramming and it says "that you may not shoot that round".

Actually, it says "This means that IT may not shoot in that turn's Shooting phase..." (emphasis mine). The restriction is just on the ramming tank.

**nosferatu1001**

Polonius - I'd already mentioned talking to the TO. Apparently you missed that. However any TO that does not publish that theyre using a well published FAQ is setting themselves up for failure

Grimgob - context is everything, notice the IT there? Thats the tank. Passengers are not even considered in that sentence. You then look at the rules and realise that the actual distance you move defines the speed band, not the other way around. So no, youre wrong on this.

**Polonius**

nosferatu1001 wrote:Polonius - I'd already mentioned talking to the TO. Apparently you missed that. However any TO that does not publish that theyre using a well published FAQ is setting themselves up for failure

I didn't miss it, I'm just not sure why you keep arguing stuff.

Like you did above in the bold. Does that matter?

No, not in a discussion about what people should know.

**Tzeentchling9**

Tyranids:

1. Shoot the Hive Guard/Zoanthropes first. You win, as nothing else can touch your vehicles now.
2. Standing behind chest-high-walls(nerd points if you get the reference) will save your army as we're an assault army that is allergic to assault grenades.
3. Most of the Psychic Powers are shooting attacks, even the buffs. We can't cast Catalyst and charge for example.
4. Sitting in a tank protects you from Shadow in the Warp(Because we can't have the filthy Xenos using an effective anti-psyker ability to block all the new Space Marine psykers, now can we?

)
5. Standing behind a chest-high-wall or in a bush protects you from the Doom.

**CageUF**

Polonius wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:Polonus - making INAT an intentional change to the rules. They also publish an FAQ document meaning you can find out the rules changes beforehand, making this a moot point.

Lash isnt a PSA, unless you change the rules so it is. Same as Ramming is a type of Tank Shock, unless you change the rules so it isnt.

Are you saying it's a bad idea to ask the TO about how he runs it?

All anybody needs to know is that there are TOs that will say that Lash is a PSA.

+1

I was just saying MANY of the tournaments across the US use INAT. And not knowing if Lash is going to count as a PSA or not should be in the top 10 of what to know about your army.

**whembly**

4. Sitting in a tank protects you from Shadow in the Warp(Because we can't have the filthy Xenos using an effective anti-psyker ability to block all the new Space Marine psykers, now can we? )

Is that right? I thought it afected psykers in vehicles as well???

**Janthkin**

whembly wrote:
4. Sitting in a tank protects you from Shadow in the Warp(Because we can't have the filthy Xenos using an effective anti-psyker ability to block all the new Space Marine psykers, now can we? )

Is that right? I thought it afected psykers in vehicles as well???

Sadly not; the lovely Tyranid FAQ rules that Shadows has no effect on psykers inside transports.

**Anpu-adom**

Should we turn this into an article or two?

10 Things to know if playing as _____.

10 Things to know if playing against ____.

**whembly**

Huh... didn't know that and I've been playing that wrong...

Is there a stick'ed post somewhere listing all the GW FAQ? Sometimes its a bear to hunt 'em down on GW's site.

**Lt. Coldfire**

whembly wrote:Huh... didn't know that and I've been playing that wrong...

Is there a stick'ed post somewhere listing all the GW FAQ? Sometimes its a bear to hunt 'em down on GW's site.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&source=hp&q=Games+workshop+FAQ&pbx=1&oq=Games+workshop+FAQ&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=515l2500l0l3203l18l7l0l0l0l0l703l1859l3-2.1.0.1l4l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=5642a2a1f64193d9&biw=1280&bih=823&safe=active

**Kreedos**

I'm so glad that this thread was dug back up from retirement. This is a very very useful thread concept. Lets keep them coming guys, I've learned a lot myself and I consider myself somewhat of a vet. Great thread for new players and vets alike.

**FeindusMaximus**

WarOne wrote:Perhaps it is best to let TOs make such decisions regarding rules, and leave it to the players to ask ahead of time how they would interpret the rules of their army based on Codices, FAQs, and other such things.

Remember, there are things such as opinions, but the tourney organizers and their judges turn opinion into law for their events, no matter what you say.

Yay, that always works,er...... except for the nepatism that runs rampit at LGS tournies....