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KingCracker wrote:I want to know why your arguing against Frazz's point though.

I wouldn't necessarily even say I really am, so much as I'm playing devil's advocate and trying to force him to actually show the math he supposedly did...


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biccat wrote:But, no, I don't want to condemn people to working at McDonalds. I think they should have a choice where they choose to work, or not work.

And I have a choice on where I want to eat.

McDonald's isn't on that list. I like to eat GOOD food. Not McDonald's.


Apparently only big businesses are allowed to practice capitalism.

biccat wrote:But, no, I don't want to condemn people to working at McDonalds. I think they should have a choice where they choose to work, or not work.

Perhaps that is the problem and we are approaching it wrongly.

Maybe instead of glorifying doctors and lawyers as necessary jobs and ones that bring prestige in money, we should align our core societal values to revere and reach for that McDonald's job; make it something worth attaining rather than disdaining.

Making a minimum wage job $20 an hour would be a great step in that direction.


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Melissia wrote:McDonald's isn't on that list. I like to eat GOOD food. Not McDonald's.

Again...perhaps that is society's fault for McDonald's poor reputation.

Force all fast food restaurants to have a minimum 30 minute waiting period between service and eating.

The company is forced to cook half-way decent food for you.

And then the $20 an hour salary might actually be worth it.

"minimum wage to $20/hr"

...Are these people from another planet?

You think unemployment is bad now, businesses everywhere would go bankrupt if minimum wage was that high.

WarOne wrote:

biccat wrote:But, no, I don't want to condemn people to working at McDonalds. I think they should have a choice where they choose to work, or not work.

Perhaps that is the problem and we are approaching it wrongly.

Maybe instead of glorifying doctors and lawyers as necessary jobs and ones that bring prestige in money, we should align our core societal values to revere and reach for that McDonald's job; make it something worth attaining rather than disdaining.

Making a minimum wage job $20 an hour would be a great step in that direction.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:McDonald's isn't on that list. I like to eat GOOD food. Not McDonald's.

Again...perhaps that is society's fault for McDonald's poor reputation.

Force all fast food restaurants to have a minimum 30 minute waiting period between service and eating.

The company is forced to cook half-way decent food for you.

And then the $20 an hour salary might actually be worth it.

We have those. They are called restaurants.

Frazzled wrote:We have those. They are called restaurants.

And even many of those restaurants do not give $20 an hour for their regular workers.

Restaurants offer a fabulous insight into the way the capitalist system operates.

Waitors and waitresses earn a very minimum amount of money for their services on an hourly basis. This is supplemented by a discretionary pay held hostage by the free market system (the customer) who values the whole experience at the end with the tip- an amount of money that values monetarily the services rendered.

These restaurants pay little directly for their tipped employees*; rather it is the market that sets their wages.

*Tipped employees must still earn a minimum wage, which if not covered in tips, is forked over by the restaurant. But at that point, the employee is probably not a good waitor/waitress in the first place.

http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/wagestips.htm

DickBandit wrote:"minimum wage to $20/hr"

...Are these people from another planet?

You think unemployment is bad now, businesses everywhere would go bankrupt if minimum wage was that high.

Not quiiite, but it's still really dumb. It's just manual inflation.

Costs would go up, prices would go up, salaries would go up. 20 would become the new 8 and basically nothing would change except your savings is now worth less. It's an inflation button.

WarOne wrote:
Maybe instead of glorifying doctors and lawyers as necessary jobs and ones that bring prestige in money, we should align our core societal values to revere and reach for that McDonald's job; make it something worth attaining rather than disdaining.

I agree partially with this sentiment but for completely different reasons.... Jobs that pay minimum wage, in my opinion are for those people who have no work experience. That means that 16 year old high school student who is trying to learn responsibility, etc. The brand new immigrant who needs to better their English skills and move on to another job. Minimum wage is not for those who failed to graduate high school because they were too busy doing drugs, or didn't wish to study and basically failed all their classes. Minimum wage is also not supposed to give someone a "comfortable" living.. so that means a person being paid this should not have 500 channels of TV, they shouldnt be buying an XBox, Playstation, expensive gaming computers, hell even a car. There are other, better means of transport than a car, especially for those of little income.

The "prestige" of a McDonald's job, is not for those who basically have failed at life, but those looking to enter it. It's one of those things that parents like to brag about to their fellow parents, or the Aunts and Uncles and extended family.

Ensis Ferrae wrote:

WarOne wrote:
Maybe instead of glorifying doctors and lawyers as necessary jobs and ones that bring prestige in money, we should align our core societal values to revere and reach for that McDonald's job; make it something worth attaining rather than disdaining.

I agree partially with this sentiment but for completely different reasons.... Jobs that pay minimum wage, in my opinion are for those people who have no work experience.

The "prestige" of a McDonald's job, is not for those who basically have failed at life, but those looking to enter it. It's one of those things that parents like to brag about to their fellow parents, or the Aunts and Uncles and extended family.

McDonalds is one of those jobs people like to boast about that started their whole working life. "I worked as a guy cleaning the grill after the fry cook finished his shift" is the typical starting story for a hard working (one who doesn't mind gettin their hands dirty and start small but dream big) American. Some of those people never get very high on the pay scale further in life, but it is the start point where future doctors and lawyers may of once been.

The problem is is that there is a reason a lawyer and doctor get paid 6 plus figure digits for their services, and none of it is easy to explain or cover within one short post of a thread. Suffice to say, a McDonald's employee, without experience or skills, is valued at the low end of the pay spectrum because their job is not considered specialized nor highly sought out.

And trying to force the government to make the lower end job worth more for labour is a disasterous road to take. It will force many companies to reduce their staffs or close their business outright, or force the economy to readjust the value of what goods they produce.

I've also heard of a minimum wage pay scale; the older one gets, the more they are paid. The other variant is the longer one works at a place, the more their minimum wage should be by law. This raises complications that already exist in the free market. School districts with teacher contracts tend to hire the least experienced or least qualified workers because contracts with unions typically pay more for a teacher with higher degrees, more college credits/courses, and/or experience. Thus a person overqualified for the job would almost never be hired under regular, non-nepotic circumstances. Further, unless protected by the federal government, works who age or progress longer with the company may get laid off because of the age wage scale. The market would simply react with what it could do, and that is save on costs and make as much profit as possible.

KingCracker wrote:I want to know why your arguing against Frazz's point though. Weather his math is bang on or way off, he has a VERY valid point. $20/hr for minimum wage is just ludicrous. Everything would more then double in price. While you wouldnt be paying 10 bucks for a dollar hamburger, youd be paying something like $3.30 cents for that same burger. $10 bucks for the CHEAP bag of bread at a grocery store? How about $45 for a car wash?

Not to mention in doing that, the value of our dollar will drop by leaps and bounds as well. I agreed with some of the stuff they demanded but that point really stuck out to me. They really think that in asking THAT MUCH for minimum wage, nothing will change in price? Cmon really?

Yes KC, because pinkos are so staggeringly naive they don't think things through properly. If it was 40 bucks for a car wash, a haircut and a burger, nobody would ever use a car wash/barber/Mcdonalds again.

And that's pretty much that.

I had an argument with a hippy who wanted to ban horse racing after a horse died in the grand national. She seems to think that people would still pay 2 grand a month if food and stabling fees and veterinary bills if they couldn't make money off said animal. If they banned horse racing, you know where most the horses in Britain and Ireland would wind up?

The fething kebab factory.

I think that story is the perfect analogy to the "hate the rich" class warrior types that make up the majority of the labour party in the UK, and all of these narrow minded fools marching in NY.

Im working class, but Im a staunch Tory, because I know what we can and cannot achieve. Its alright hating the rich, but you cant get labour without getting slack on immigration, wellfare and crime. So feth it, I side with the rich.

I might not have a trust fund, but Id rather live in a country with a line in the sand.

The exact same thing goes for these fethers. Life sucks, it ain't fair, the rich will always be rich and the poor will always have to work hard. So fething what? These poorly thought out quick fixes do jack gak. Its the same when they demand that workers in the third world get a fair wage, they wont get a fair wage, they will get fired because the hippies demanded too much, the owner will go "feth it" and sell his factory, and then the poor people that worked 12 hour shifts to feed their kids much to the chagrin of the hippies who live in nice countries and have no idea what they are talking about, will then become the unemployed people that starve to death.

Reality check hippies. Your plan wont work, and there will always be an underclass, live with it.

mattyrm wrote: Its the same when they demand that workers in the third world get a fair wage,

Actually, I would find it reasonable to demand of third world workers to try and leverage their power to make their labour cost more.

But that requires risks. They have to fight the regime, conventional wisdom (i.e. do I feed my family or die from hailstorm of bullets?), powerful third party interests (the Western company that owns the factory you work in, or contracted the factory you work in to make the goods for a Western market), and upset the social order in order to get it done.

Quite simply, a labour president in America asking foreign workers to join a united international labour union is insane (this happened back when the car companies in Detroit were in peril. One of the presidents of the unions gave a speech to this effect). It disregards borders and cultures like no one's business and shows how ignorant a person can be with regard to the real work situations that make such a demand high impractical if not impossible.

Frazzled wrote:We have those. They are called restaurants.

The problem with WarOne's post is that since he hit all the right buzzwords and tone, it is easy to take him seriously. See Poe's Law.

Interestingly, a group of like-minded yahoos have decided to spread their idiocy to the midwest. They are now protesting outside of my building. I had a good laugh at their expense on my way to the wonderful capitalist enclave of the local Chinese Restaurant*. They've managed a crowd of upwards of 30 people, requiring a single police cruiser.

Interestingly, their racial mix didn't exactly mesh with the local demographic. They're either an oppressed majority-minority or (more likely) drove in from the suburbs and are paying $3-4 an hour for the privilege of protesting downtown. I'm guessing the latter.

*They've updated their buffet to include pot stickers, I'm going back.

biccat wrote:The problem with WarOne's post is that since he hit all the right buzzwords and tone, it is easy to take him seriously. See Poe's Law.

Hard to convey sarcasm over the internet when one does not know the intent or the typical posting style of the poster in question.

But also look at the person responding.

But yes, the original post was a sort of condescending affirmation of valuing a frycook over a life saver. They both occupy different niches in the societal framework of roles and both require wildly different skill sets and experiences.

Melissia wrote:

biccat wrote:Do you want people who work at McDonalds to lose their jobs Mel?

When you work at McDonald's, the job sucks the life out of you. Do you really want to condemn people to a soulless life of working at McDonald's?

The very thought of it makes me shudder in fear.

Full stop.

Remove your head from your ass.

My wife works at McDonalds. Here in Houston. Went from dropping fries to store manager to supervising several stores to management in the Corporate training department. All without a degree. She makes more than I do and I'm a chemical engineer for a fortune 500 company (which is fine by me, by the way). All from the opportunity that McDonald's gave her.

She is not alone. The "souless people" that she works with enjoy their jobs and appreciate the opportunity it gives them. The job allows them to support their families and provides the opportunity for those that want it to go up the management trail. The guys that work in the kitchen for 15 years and don't want management jobs? They choose to do it for a variety of reasons. But they're getting paid.

I'd seen you talk out of your ass before, Melissa. I just rolled my eyes and chalked it up to teenage angst + fight the system + a few other things.

Now, I know you're just an ignorant person. You have no idea what you are talking about. None. Welcome to ignore.

biccat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:We have those. They are called restaurants.

The problem with WarOne's post is that since he hit all the right buzzwords and tone, it is easy to take him seriously. See Poe's Law.

Interestingly, a group of like-minded yahoos have decided to spread their idiocy to the midwest. They are now protesting outside of my building. I had a good laugh at their expense on my way to the wonderful capitalist enclave of the local Chinese Restaurant*. They've managed a crowd of upwards of 30 people, requiring a single police cruiser.

Interestingly, their racial mix didn't exactly mesh with the local demographic. They're either an oppressed majority-minority or (more likely) drove in from the suburbs and are paying $3-4 an hour for the privilege of protesting downtown. I'm guessing the latter.

*They've updated their buffet to include pot stickers, I'm going back.

We've been informed there will be protests in Houston Thusday winding by my building. I intend to throw some banana peels at them, or at worst point and laugh. I'm betting this massive crowd won't make it to 50 people. It will be funny to see the homeless hit them up for change...

kronk wrote:My wife works at McDonalds. Here in Houston. Went from dropping fries to store manager to supervising several stores to management in the Corporate training department. All without a degree. She makes more than I do and I'm a chemical engineer for a fortune 500 company (which is fine by me, by the way). All from the opportunity that McDonald's gave her.

Circumventing the rest of kronk's post, this is the point to which a person, who enters the workforce at McDonald's, is now a veteran and experienced worker as well as a leader in the same company she started in.

This person through experience and perserverence now has earned the right to be a higher paid worker, and as such the company she works at values her accordingly.

I think raising the minimum wage to $20/hr is totally achievable. You just need to quadruple prices on everything. And, to compensate for added cost of living, you just need to quadruple everyone else's salary.

Problem solved!

Grakmar wrote:I think raising the minimum wage to $20/hr is totally achievable. You just need to quadruple prices on everything. And, to compensate for added cost of living, you just need to quadruple everyone else's salary.

Problem solved!

We should do this, but then to avoid devaluing investments, deflate the dollar by 75%.

kronk wrote:
Now, I know you're just an ignorant person. You have no idea what you are talking about. None. Welcome to ignore.

But Kronk, if you ignore her how can you contradict her statements? Hitting the ignore button means the terrorists are winning.

Frazzled wrote:

biccat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:We have those. They are called restaurants.

The problem with WarOne's post is that since he hit all the right buzzwords and tone, it is easy to take him seriously. See Poe's Law.

Interestingly, a group of like-minded yahoos have decided to spread their idiocy to the midwest. They are now protesting outside of my building. I had a good laugh at their expense on my way to the wonderful capitalist enclave of the local Chinese Restaurant*. They've managed a crowd of upwards of 30 people, requiring a single police cruiser.

Interestingly, their racial mix didn't exactly mesh with the local demographic. They're either an oppressed majority-minority or (more likely) drove in from the suburbs and are paying $3-4 an hour for the privilege of protesting downtown. I'm guessing the latter.

*They've updated their buffet to include pot stickers, I'm going back.

We've been informed there will be protests in Houston Thusday winding by my building. I intend to throw some banana peels at them, or at worst point and laugh. I'm betting this massive crowd won't make it to 50 people. It will be funny to see the homeless hit them up for change...

Might be worth a laugh to inform as many homeless and panhandlers as possible of their imminent arrival. Just tell them that there is a group of people that want to make the world a better place and reduce unemployment/homelessness. If you're lucky there could be a 1:1 ratio of hippy to homeless and the sound of their protest drowned out by the rattling of "donation cups."

kronk wrote:

Melissia wrote:

biccat wrote:Do you want people who work at McDonalds to lose their jobs Mel?

When you work at McDonald's, the job sucks the life out of you. Do you really want to condemn people to a soulless life of working at McDonald's?

The very thought of it makes me shudder in fear.

Full stop.

Remove your head from your ass.

My wife works at McDonalds. Here in Houston. Went from dropping fries to store manager to supervising several stores to management in the Corporate training department. All without a degree. She makes more than I do and I'm a chemical engineer for a fortune 500 company (which is fine by me, by the way). All from the opportunity that McDonald's gave her.

She is not alone. The "souless people" that she works with enjoy their jobs and appreciate the opportunity it gives them. The job allows them to support their families and provides the opportunity for those that want it to go up the management trail. The guys that work in the kitchen for 15 years and don't want management jobs? They choose to do it for a variety of reasons. But they're getting paid.

I'd seen you talk out of your ass before, Melissa. I just rolled my eyes and chalked it up to teenage angst + fight the system + a few other things.

Now, I know you're just an ignorant person. You have no idea what you are talking about. None. Welcome to ignore.

McDonalds makes excellent coffee and sausage biscuits. If I leave a $20 could a case fall off the back of the truck and end up in my trunk?


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Infreak wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

biccat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:We have those. They are called restaurants.

The problem with WarOne's post is that since he hit all the right buzzwords and tone, it is easy to take him seriously. See Poe's Law.

Interestingly, a group of like-minded yahoos have decided to spread their idiocy to the midwest. They are now protesting outside of my building. I had a good laugh at their expense on my way to the wonderful capitalist enclave of the local Chinese Restaurant*. They've managed a crowd of upwards of 30 people, requiring a single police cruiser.

Interestingly, their racial mix didn't exactly mesh with the local demographic. They're either an oppressed majority-minority or (more likely) drove in from the suburbs and are paying $3-4 an hour for the privilege of protesting downtown. I'm guessing the latter.

*They've updated their buffet to include pot stickers, I'm going back.

We've been informed there will be protests in Houston Thusday winding by my building. I intend to throw some banana peels at them, or at worst point and laugh. I'm betting this massive crowd won't make it to 50 people. It will be funny to see the homeless hit them up for change...

Might be worth a laugh to inform as many homeless and panhandlers as possible of their imminent arrival. Just tell them that there is a group of people that want to make the world a better place and reduce unemployment/homelessness. If you're lucky there could be a 1:1 ratio of hippy to homeless and the sound of their protest drowned out by the rattling of "donation cups."

Alternatively the homeless might think the hippies are homeless trying to horn in on their hard won territory. Out come the shanks and shivs. Again, fun to watch for the whole family.

Frazzled wrote:McDonalds makes excellent coffee and sausage biscuits. If I leave a $20 could a case fall off the back of the truck and end up in my trunk?

Unfortunately, we both would like for her to remain employed. Perhaps I can get some managers coupons for you...

kronk wrote:

Frazzled wrote:McDonalds makes excellent coffee and sausage biscuits. If I leave a $20 could a case fall off the back of the truck and end up in my trunk?

Unfortunately, we both would like for her to remain employed. Perhaps I can get some managers coupons for you...

coffee really is excellent.

kronk wrote:

Melissia wrote:

biccat wrote:Do you want people who work at McDonalds to lose their jobs Mel?

When you work at McDonald's, the job sucks the life out of you. Do you really want to condemn people to a soulless life of working at McDonald's?

The very thought of it makes me shudder in fear.

Full stop.

Remove your head from your ass.

My wife works at McDonalds. Here in Houston. Went from dropping fries to store manager to supervising several stores to management in the Corporate training department. All without a degree. She makes more than I do and I'm a chemical engineer for a fortune 500 company (which is fine by me, by the way). All from the opportunity that McDonald's gave her.

She is not alone. The "souless people" that she works with enjoy their jobs and appreciate the opportunity it gives them. The job allows them to support their families and provides the opportunity for those that want it to go up the management trail. The guys that work in the kitchen for 15 years and don't want management jobs? They choose to do it for a variety of reasons. But they're getting paid.

I'd seen you talk out of your ass before, Melissa. I just rolled my eyes and chalked it up to teenage angst + fight the system + a few other things.

Now, I know you're just an ignorant person. You have no idea what you are talking about. None. Welcome to ignore.

Zing!

Ive always hated how arrogant middle class arseholes look down on people with gak jobs.

In the UK they are far more generous with social programmes than in the US, you can live on the dole. Im talking 30 years without a job, its not hard to do. They pay your council tax and your rent and give you money, sure your not gonna be wadded, but its comfortable enough. Thats why so many fething people do it.

For that reason, I dont merely appreciate people with gakky jobs, I really fething respect them. People look at a street sweeper and think they guy has no self respect, its the exact fething opposite.

If your a bus driver or a street sweeper or a toilet cleaner, you get your ass out of bed on a morning to do a job you don't enjoy, and you do it BECAUSE you have too much self respect to sit on your ass and live off fething wellfare like so many parasites do.

I will bro fist a toilet cleaner.

I will chainfist a pretentious English literature student who wears a beret.

Excellent.

Frazzled wrote:

kronk wrote:

Frazzled wrote:McDonalds makes excellent coffee and sausage biscuits. If I leave a $20 could a case fall off the back of the truck and end up in my trunk?

Unfortunately, we both would like for her to remain employed. Perhaps I can get some managers coupons for you...

coffee really is excellent.

PM me. I'll see if I can hook you up with something...

Do the liberals have their own teaparty now? Nah, this things still more coherent then that pack of crap.

Most people don't work at McDonald's for very long. My morning pass through the drive-through has demonstrated that amply. Because the thing about minimum wage jobs is that people tend to leave them as soon as something better comes along.

You should look at minimum wage jobs that don't have such high attrition rates then. Fast food has an immense amount of churn at everything below multi store manager level. It's awful and difficult work that is draining and depressing in the extreme.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WarOne wrote:

kronk wrote:My wife works at McDonalds. Here in Houston. Went from dropping fries to store manager to supervising several stores to management in the Corporate training department. All without a degree. She makes more than I do and I'm a chemical engineer for a fortune 500 company (which is fine by me, by the way). All from the opportunity that McDonald's gave her.

Circumventing the rest of kronk's post, this is the point to which a person, who enters the workforce at McDonald's, is now a veteran and experienced worker as well as a leader in the same company she started in.

This person through experience and perserverence now has earned the right to be a higher paid worker, and as such the company she works at values her accordingly.

And how many hundreds work under her can not be afforded the same opportunity until she leaves? Growth in wealth can't exist solely through promotion, not everyone can be the manager and our population isn't rising a fifth as fast as would be needed for that to make sense. Acting like mcdonalds isn't a corporation that heavily exploits its ability to pay low for unskilled gak labor is like pretending the sky doesn't exist. It's right there. Look at it. It's ugly. One can not support themselves in anything but strict poverty working there. Below an upper management position (macdonalds managers don't make much at a store level).

It also doesn't help that there are very few corporations left that will allow a worker to move to upper management without a related degree. Is McDonalds even still one of them? How long has she had her position?

KingCracker wrote:Honestly....anymore when I try to think about who really is to blame on the current situation.... I think everything the Government has done in the last 10-15 years is to blame. I dont care how relative it is to the problem, Im just blaming everything on it. Can we drop a nuke on Parliament yet and just start over?

Yep, and when you look at that first list of demands, about all of which start with 'Congress' I have to wonder why they are not in DC vice on Wallstreet.

Melissia wrote:When you work at McDonald's, the job sucks the life out of you. Do you really want to condemn people to a soulless life of working at McDonald's?

The very thought of it makes me shudder in fear.

As someone who has worked fast food, construction, customer service jobs, active military and now contractor for the Army I have to laugh. I've had soul sucking jobs. Know what? They paid for me to enjoy non-soul sucking activites when not working. It is the kids who are too good for 'soul sucking jobs' that want many of the things in the second list of demands from the opening post. They want the world handed to them and don't think they should ever have to break a sweat to enjoy the fruits of MY sweat. As Dad used to say, they can find sympathy between shyte and syphilis in the dictionary. They need to embrace the suck and drive on.

Whilst one can appreciate the desire to emphasise the validity and strength of ones feelinsg with regards to this issue, could we please refrain from making cracks about heads in asses and the like please. It detracts majorly from otherwise very well made points and opinions.

Obliged.

As someone who has worked fast food, construction, customer service jobs, active military and now contractor for the Army I have to laugh. I've had soul sucking jobs. Know what? They paid for me to enjoy non-soul sucking activites when not working. It is the kids who are too good for 'soul sucking jobs' that want many of the things in the second list of demands from the opening post.

You sound like you're used to soul crushing jobs. You should get out of that rut.

They want the world handed to them and don't think they should ever have to break a sweat to enjoy the fruits of MY sweat. As Dad used to say, they can find sympathy between shyte and syphilis in the dictionary. They need to embrace the suck and drive on.

I'm sure there demands have more to do with the fact that the income divide has grown steadily for 40 years while good paying unskilled work has all but vanished in america. Wages have not increased against inflation since the 70s. gak is shittier then when your dad was bitching. You have it worse then your dad. Pretending that everyone but you is a lazy twit pretending that things are going wrong during the greatest recession in almost a century is lame.

ShumaGorath wrote:

As someone who has worked fast food, construction, customer service jobs, active military and now contractor for the Army I have to laugh. I've had soul sucking jobs. Know what? They paid for me to enjoy non-soul sucking activites when not working. It is the kids who are too good for 'soul sucking jobs' that want many of the things in the second list of demands from the opening post.

You sound like you're used to soul crushing jobs. You should get out of that rut.

They want the world handed to them and don't think they should ever have to break a sweat to enjoy the fruits of MY sweat. As Dad used to say, they can find sympathy between shyte and syphilis in the dictionary. They need to embrace the suck and drive on.

I'm sure there demands have more to do with the fact that the income divide has grown steadily for 40 years while good paying unskilled work has all but vanished in america. Wages have not increased against inflation since the 70s. gak is shittier then when your dad was bitching. You have it worse then your dad. Pretending that everyone but you is a lazy twit pretending that things are going wrong during the greatest recession in almost a century is lame.

Clearly you haven't had to pay a plumber recently.