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Dreadknight would be a good start. I actually saw a converted dreadkinght with a Battle Cannon and Daemon Hammer.


If you want, I can think you up something for them?

Lord Magnus wrote:Have you guys thought about what to do for knight titan rules? Will you make them similar to the dreadknight?

Deadshot wrote:Dreadknight would be a good start. I actually saw a converted dreadkinght with a Battle Cannon and Daemon Hammer.


If you want, I can think you up something for them?

Actually I was planning on making them more enclosed and a proper vehicle. To me, making them a non-vehicle unit just doesn't seem right. Basically a heavily armoured Dreadnought with a single Void Shield and some absolutely nasty weapons. I imagine it being about as tall as a Baneblade is long and it being more of an Apocalypse unit instead of a standard game unit.

I dunno, what do you guys think? Keep them as they are and have them at about half the size of a Warhound Titan or change the lore a little bit and have them very Dreadknight-ish?

Well, you have to consider modeling the unit. What will it look like, how difficult will it be to convert a model to represent it?

junk wrote:Well, you have to consider modeling the unit. What will it look like, how difficult will it be to convert a model to represent it?

Indeed. Doesn't seem like Forgeworld has anything close to that size either.

Alright so smaller and a bit of a lore change it is. Normally they're equipped with Titan Weapons, but seeing as how they're smaller I doubt one is gonna be able to fit even a Vulcan Mega-Bolter. What weapon options should these things have?

Marik Law wrote:
As for the Internal Weapon System, not too sure about this yet. I want to say "yes", but I'm not 100% sure which will be more balanced at this point. Playtesting definitely required.

You could make that the squad/IC Internal Weapon System upgrades similar to the SM codex special weapon upgrades.

ie; 1 melta/plasma/flamer per squad, and can add additional if your squad consists of ten

I had a better idea for a "The Flesh is Weak" type rule, similar to what was encountered during the Contqual Purge-

"We stop for nothing" - Iron Hands may fire into close combat. After rolling to hit, roll a D6. On a 4+, they hit the enemy target unit. On any other result, they hit a friendly model. If this is done with any Allied (non Iron Hands army) the score required to hit the Enemy unit is raised to a 5+.

Or something similar - Perhaps I am overthinking this?

I do like the sound of the Knight, IMHO i think it should be able to take a weapon similar to the Punisher Cannon from the IG, but not so many shots.

Im unsure about that Special Rule. Maybe they can only shoot into combat when specific units are fighting e.g scouts

Unit1126PLL wrote:I had a better idea for a "The Flesh is Weak" type rule, similar to what was encountered during the Contqual Purge-

"We stop for nothing" - Iron Hands may fire into close combat. After rolling to hit, roll a D6. On a 4+, they hit the enemy target unit. On any other result, they hit a friendly model. If this is done with any Allied (non Iron Hands army) the score required to hit the Enemy unit is raised to a 5+.

Or something similar - Perhaps I am overthinking this?

I dunno, this still to me seems borderline Chaos. I think simply making them Stubborn would get the point across. I have a few other ideas, but do you think a tactical retreat would be something the Iron Hands would do, or would any form of retreat (even a tactical one) be considered weakness?

They do NOT retreat, unless it would jepordise their goal.

If they were suppossed to defend a position, they would need to be wiped out to a man. If they were evacutating recruits, they would retraet purposefully only to keep their new recruits alive.


Maybe making the fearless or stubborn.

Deadshot wrote:They do NOT retreat, unless it would jepordise their goal.

If they were suppossed to defend a position, they would need to be wiped out to a man. If they were evacutating recruits, they would retraet purposefully only to keep their new recruits alive.


Maybe making the fearless or stubborn.

"Do Not Suffer the Weakness of Flesh"
Replaces ATSKNF. Iron Hands are Stubborn. If they are required to take a morale test and fail, they will still count as having passed the morale test but will take a wound for each value over their Leadership that they failed the test by with only Feel No Pain saves allowed.

Shows that they won't retreat even under pressure. Also, allowing their Bionics saves gives the impression that they fully believe that the iron portions of their body are truly superior to their still fleshy bits, thus finding faith, redemption, and strength through their bionics.

Feel no Pain and this contradict each other.if a wound ignores your armour save, then it also ignores FNP. I would change that to invulnerables.

Deadshot wrote:Feel no Pain and this contradict each other.if a wound ignores your armour save, then it also ignores FNP. I would change that to invulnerables.

That's the reason I worded it so that Feel No Pain is the only save allowed. The actual wording in the Codex will be as follows: "Only saves provided by Bionics may be taken against wounds sustained in this manner."

Marik Law wrote:That's the reason I worded it so that Feel No Pain is the only save allowed. The actual wording in the Codex will be as follows: "Only saves provided by Bionics may be taken against wounds sustained in this manner."

Sounds good.

I have a teaser for everyone: The Headquarters choices!

Iron Thane
The Iron Thane is basically the Iron Hands version of a Master of the Forge and they typically form the Captains of the chapter. They have one more Weapon Skill, Wound, and Initiative than a MotF but remain at 2 Attacks. Along with Techmarines, their Bolster Defences and Blessing of the Omnissiah special rules have been improved and are much more useful and fluid now. Can take a servo-harness with up to four attachments.

Iron Father
The chapter's incarnation of a Chaplain. Functions the same as a normal Chaplain, still debating if they should be same stats as current Chaplain or be upgraded to have an additional Ballistic Skill, Initiative, Wound, and Attack. They can take a servo-harness with a single attachment.

Venerable Dreadnought
Yup, Iron Hands are noted as being lead by Venerables and tend to have a larger abundance of Venerables than any other type of Dreadnought in the army. You can take two of these bad boys as a single Headquarters choice and they don't function as a squad. They also have one or two new special rules and a slew of new vehicle upgrades and weapons to choose from. Can be upgraded to a Chaplain Dreadnought.

Adeptus Mechanicus Magos
This guy I'm totally excited about. He's a weaker unit stat-wise, but still has repairing abilities like Techmarines, and has access to some pretty awesome, unique wargear. What I love about him though is twofold. First, he makes Skitarii Storm Troopers a Troops choice instead of an Elites choice. Also he has a special rule called Technology Crusade. This special rule allows you to pick an enemy vehicle or a single enemy squad with a Heavy weapon or a weapons platform. For the rest of the game, friendly units will count as having Preferred Enemy against that unit and get +1 Ballistic Skill when shooting at that unit. If the unit is destroyed a new objective marker is placed down or, if using kill points, the enemy team will lose D3 kill points if they don't have a model in base contact with the marker at the end of the game.

I take it the Mchanicus guy will be like a GK Inquisitor?

Deadshot wrote:I take it the Mechanicus guy will be like a GK Inquisitor?

In a nutshell, yes. There will be other Adeptus Mechanicus units in the army as well, but taking him only effects the Skitarii Storm Troopers so far.

So I am guessing he allows you to take a single unit of Skitarii troopers, like Henchmen?

Beautiful.
Although, you might want an actual MotF character, and what about a Chapter Master?

I don't thnik the IH actually have a CM.

Deadshot wrote:So I am guessing he allows you to take a single unit of Skitarii troopers, like Henchmen?

Haven't fully decided on his Henchmen yet. I figure it'll be similar to Inquisitors or Dark Eldar where you have a selection of Henchmen you can take (Veteran Skitarii Storm Troopers, Praetorian Servitors, Servitors, etc). The Skitarii Storm Troopers themselves are an Elites choice that replaces the Scouts within the army (since there isn't much evidence to support Scouts and, if anything, the Iron Hands initiative is much more harsh than other Chapters which leads to even less trainees).

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:Beautiful.
Although, you might want an actual MotF character, and what about a Chapter Master?

Nope, no Captains or Chapter Masters. The lore and GW have made it pretty clear that the Iron Thanes (basically amped up Masters of the Forge) rule over the Clans and, potentially, the Chapter Master himself is just an Iron Thane and potentially also the leader of one of the Clans.

How about this for their chapter tactics rule. I like "The Flesh is Weak" name as it fits fluff perfectly.

"The Flesh is Weak" gives them the stubborn USR and in CC all attacks are rending on a 5+, but a role of 1 drops their attacks to 1/0 with no modifiers allowed.

Fits with there fluff of being ruthless in the attack, but they suffer a penalty for "weakness"

I made that mistake as well. The way I see it, their flesk is as strong as any Astartes. They just believe that Iron is better.

In the Vanilla codex, Kardan Stronos is called the "Chapter Master", so...

E: Actually, Lexicanum seems to be undecided on whether they have one or not.

Where in the vanilla 'dex? I've never seen it.

Why not try representing bionics as a 5+ fnp save so its like necrons only not as strong and then a item on characters thats enhances bionics to normal fnp

I think the different bionics would be better. I think digital weapons, +1 T that DOES affect ID, +1 WS/BS/S/I/A, or any others, would win out over 5+ FNP.

James100 wrote:Why not try representing bionics as a 5+ fnp save so its like necrons only not as strong and then a item on characters thats enhances bionics to normal fnp

Deadshot wrote:I think the different bionics would be better. I think digital weapons, +1 T that DOES affect ID, +1 WS/BS/S/I/A, or any others, would win out over 5+ FNP.

This is kind of the way I have it now, except without having to wait until the end of the turn to use it. Basically there are two ranks of Bionics, the standard Bionics (1) which provides a 5+ Feel No Pain and an advanced Bionics (2) which provides the standard 4+ Feel No Pain. Typically only very special units have access to Bionics (2) (Iron Thanes and Adeptus Mechanicus Magos, for example). In addition, certain units will be able to take further augmentations via Bionic Implants (at the appropriate points cost per implant). Standard Bionics don't come free on a lot of units either. For example, a Tactical Squad can take Bionics (1) but it will cost them +25 points to do so and they can't take any Bionic Implants.

The downside is that units with Bionics can't run or make sweeping advances and are still prone to having their Bionics negated from weapons that ignore armour saves or from weapons that would normally cause Instant Death.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:In the Vanilla codex, Kardan Stronos is called the "Chapter Master", so...

E: Actually, Lexicanum seems to be undecided on whether they have one or not.

The problem is he is simply referred to as a Chapter Master, that doesn't mean he isn't an Iron Thane, it just means that he is supposedly in overall control of the chapter. Some theories have it that the source that was stating that Kardan was their Chapter Master was also misinformed or that the chapter may give rise to a Chapter Master in times of great need.

Salted Diamond wrote:How about this for their chapter tactics rule. I like "The Flesh is Weak" name as it fits fluff perfectly.

"The Flesh is Weak" gives them the stubborn USR and in CC all attacks are rending on a 5+, but a role of 1 drops their attacks to 1/0 with no modifiers allowed.

Fits with there fluff of being ruthless in the attack, but they suffer a penalty for "weakness"

Hmm, I like it, but just one problem: how do you lower their attacks when you're already rolling for them?

Marik Law wrote:

Salted Diamond wrote:How about this for their chapter tactics rule. I like "The Flesh is Weak" name as it fits fluff perfectly.

"The Flesh is Weak" gives them the stubborn USR and in CC all attacks are rending on a 5+, but a role of 1 drops their attacks to 1/0 with no modifiers allowed.

Fits with there fluff of being ruthless in the attack, but they suffer a penalty for "weakness"

Hmm, I like it, but just one problem: how do you lower their attacks when you're already rolling for them?

"Rolling for them?" I meant they only get 1 attack in CC, no modifiers or bonus attacks allowed.

Salted Diamond wrote:

Marik Law wrote:

Salted Diamond wrote:How about this for their chapter tactics rule. I like "The Flesh is Weak" name as it fits fluff perfectly.

"The Flesh is Weak" gives them the stubborn USR and in CC all attacks are rending on a 5+, but a role of 1 drops their attacks to 1/0 with no modifiers allowed.

Fits with there fluff of being ruthless in the attack, but they suffer a penalty for "weakness"

Hmm, I like it, but just one problem: how do you lower their attacks when you're already rolling for them?

"Rolling for them?" I meant they only get 1 attack in CC, no modifiers or bonus attacks allowed.

My point is that you're already rolling for your attacks. Let me put it as an example...

Let's say an Iron Hands independent character gets 4 attacks in close combat. He rolls a 5, 3, 2, and a 1. He should have two hits and two misses, but because he rolled a 1...what happens?

If this isn't what you meant then you've completely lost me, as when I read what you've said I rea "but a roll of 1 drops their attacks to 1/0 with no modifiers allowed."

I understand what you meant now, and I see what you mean. Maybe a roll of 1 allowed the enemy to reroll a failed armor save, or subtracts 1 from combat resolution to see who won (the way banners add one). Not sure if it would be cumulative or not.