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So wait, infidelity takes down cain and in turn polls rise for the guy who's been married 3 times, left his first wife while she had cancer, cheated on the second one while trying to hang clinton for doing the same thing and then married the third one who he cheated on the second one with and who was also a senate page at the time, not to mention 23 years younger than him... wow just wow.
I have no doubt that there are plenty of people who are good at their jobs but just can't keep it in their pants. The problem for me other than the terrible judgment he's shown is the hypocrisy of going after clinton while he's doing the exact same thing.
Crablezworth wrote: The problem for me other than the terrible judgment he's shown is the hypocrisy of going after clinton while he's doing the exact same thing.
Their is very little difference between reps and dems.
They both live in a world of their own devising that they are equal parts of, and it does not require common sense, honesty, accountability, or integrity to function.
The political show is just a front and means to acquire money, power, influence and favor for one's self, friend, family and buisness alliances.
CT GAMER wrote:
They both live in a world of their own devising that they are equal parts of, and it does not require common sense, honesty, accountability, or integrity to function.
Well, common sense isn't a real thing, and the other three are only prerequisites of a society that wants to mitigate the predations of competition, which polls say ours is not; probably because everyone assumes that they're going to win.
CT GAMER wrote:
The political show is just a front and means to acquire money, power, influence and favor for one's self, friend, family and buisness alliances.
As it has been since time immemorial.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
I suppose his lobbying for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, while decrying both lobbying Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, will get ignored.
Almost a hypocritic as the Clinton years. Wait sorry. he was a paid "Historian". my bad.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/02 07:54:21
"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC
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Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC
biccat wrote:This is a great line. See, if you think Newt's smart, it's not because he's smart, it's because you're stupid!
It's a shame that as US politics gets more and more contentless, you seem to happily following them.
I didn't say it because it was an attack. I said it because I've listened to Gingrich, and while the the way he addresses his points, and his mannerisms indicate academic thoughtfulness and insight, but he never actually says anything insightful. Seriously, just listen to the guy, he'll just summarise the factors involved in an issue, tell us it's all very complicated and the say absolutely nothing about what he's going to do about it.
I know you'll ignore any examples I give, but if I don't you'll demand them, so we might as well skip that unnecessary bit of posting by me just dumping these here;
On the situation in Afghanistan;
"Look, I think this is so much bigger and deeper a problem than we've talked about as a country that we don't have a clue how hard this is going to be. First of all, the Taliban survives for the very same reason that historically we said guerillas always survive, which is they have a sanctuary....So I think this has to be a much larger strategic discussion that starts with, frankly, Pakistan on the one end and Iran on the other, because Afghanistan is in between the two countries and is the least important of the three countries."
Well, yes, Newt, that's very interesting but exactly what are you going to do about it...
On cutting government;
"There are four interlocking national security problems. Debt and the deficit's one. Energy is a second one. Manufacturing is a third one. And science and technology's a fourth. And you need to have solutions that fit all four."
Well, yes, Newt, that's very interesting in a baby's first budget kind of way, but what exactly are you going to do about it...
On a nuke armed Pakistan;
"Well, look. This is a good example of the mess we've gotten ourselves into since the Church Committee so-called reforms in 1970s. We don't have a reliable intelligence service. We don't have independent intelligence in places like Pakistan....This is a very good example of scenarios people ought to look at seriously and say, "We had better overhaul everything from rules of engagement to how we run the intelligence community, because we are in a very dangerous world."
Well, yes, Newt, that's interesting in a bizarre reference to a 40 year old reform, but what exactly are you going to do about Pakistan.
Someone who isn't following the substance of the debate might hear the above, and think 'wow, that Newt sure has loads of information about this, he must be smart', but anyone who's actually listening for content and ideas will notice Gingrich just covers up his lack of policy solutions with academic sounding noise.
Anyone who thinks Gingrich isn't an intelligent person doesn't know gak about gak. He's got a PhD ffs and has written several history books.
Anyone who makes that argument has never spent any time with academics. I know a Winthrop professor who didn't know the Ukraine was now a seperate country.
I'm not sure that Gingrich is the best Republican candidate, but I'd still vote for him over the current President.
Of course you would. You're a footsoldier for the Republicans, and nothing if not loyal.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Crablezworth wrote:So wait, infidelity takes down cain...
Well, no, not infidelity;
"Bialek alleges that Cain put his hand under her skirt and reached for her genitals and also pushed her head toward his crotch while they were in a car. She recalls saying: “This isn’t what I came here for, Mr. Cain.” The now-GOP presidential candidate responded, according to Bialek, “You want a job, right?”
I don't know if the allegations are true or not, and I'm not convinced they were responsible for Cain's slide back down the polls (which surely was mostly to do with the incompetence of his campaign management and extremely shallow policies - charm and a cute tax idea can get you attention, but you need competence for people to take you seriously)... but what Cain is accused of doing was not just infidelity.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
sebster wrote: I said it because I've listened to Gingrich, and while the the way he addresses his points, and his mannerisms indicate academic thoughtfulness and insight, but he never actually says anything insightful.
...is someone on this board.
sebster wrote:
I know you'll ignore any examples I give, but if I don't you'll demand them, so we might as well skip that unnecessary bit of posting by me just dumping these here...
sebster wrote:
Anyone who makes that argument has never spent any time with academics. I know a Winthrop professor who didn't know the Ukraine was now a seperate country.
Or debating politics (or anything, appeal to authority etc.).
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2011/12/02 08:50:56
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Hi, my name is sebster and I have no idea what this reference means.
Or debating politics (or anything, appeal to authority etc.).
Yeah, I picked that example because it was the easiest to sum up, I know more than couple of very well credentialled academics with some deeply crazy views on how the world works.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
sebster wrote:Yeah, I picked that example because it was the easiest to sum up, I know more than couple of very well credentialled academics with some deeply crazy views on how the world works.
Whatever could you mean?
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Amfibians on fire? How is this possibel! Anyways I sense desapair and good times comming for the US in the years to come if this man with a massive intrest in secreatiers is elleced.
sebster wrote:
Or debating politics (or anything, appeal to authority etc.).
Ace Ventura.
sebster wrote:
Yeah, I picked that example because it was the easiest to sum up, I know more than couple of very well credentialled academics with some deeply crazy views on how the world works.
Then we have something in common, besides having tanned on Bondi.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/02 10:37:16
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
KingCracker wrote:Ok as a guy that cant stand Obama, and a guy that knows nothing about Gingriches position on things, how does he actually look as far as a candidate? is he votable or is a secret fruit basket? Id like to know, because I can tell you 1 thing, I wont be voting Obama this year
Newt is a fruit that only barely manages to hold it together long enough to speak a few coherent thoughts before going off on tangential rants.
So basically like most people who argue on this forum.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Monster Rain wrote:Other than the infidelity thing, most conservatives seem to like the guy quite a bit.
I'm not surprised that he was doing well. Sean Hannity's been wanting him to run for ages.
Come on admit it, we all relish the thought of Newt Gingrich going mano O mano in debates with Barack 'teleprompter" Obama. It would be the Thrilla in...er DC.
Could we have Newt Gingrich debate and let Romney run it once they win?
As an aside, polling now places Barack Obama below Jimmy Carter in views on handling the economy...
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Editor's note: David Frum, a CNN contributor, was a special assistant to President George W. Bush from 2001 to 2002. He is the author of six books, including "Comeback: Conservatism That Can Win Again," and is the editor of FrumForum.
(CNN) -- Immigration is the only issue where a political candidate can totally do the bidding of the K Street lobbyists and still be hailed as compassionate and humane.
At CNN's Republican National Security Debate this past Tuesday, former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich reconfirmed his longstanding immigration policy:
-- A commitment to enhanced border security
-- A guest worker program
-- Individual hearings for each of 12 million or so illegal aliens, at which those with long ties to the country will gain residency rights
-- No citizenship for illegal entries
On its face, this program is unworkable. Examine each piece in turn:
Why the border? The border is the wrong place to stop illegal immigration, if only because tighter security wouldn't stop the up to 45% of the illegal population who enter the country legally, then overstay their visas, as estimated by the Senate Committee on Homeland Security.
The right place to stop illegality is the workplace. If employers faced an effective requirement to hire only legal workers, and meaningful penalties for breaking the law, we'd change the incentive structure that creates the problem in the first place. As is, employers are punished only if they can be shown to have employed illegal labor "knowingly," meaning that so long as the employee produces a valid-seeming Social Security number, the employer goes scot-free. Even if somehow caught, the fines are small. Under those circumstances, you could deploy the whole U.S. Army on the Mexican border and hardly make an impact on the problem.
Immigration enforcement inescapably impinges on employers, especially employers in low-wage industries such as restaurants, hotels, groundskeeping and meatpacking, whose voices are heard through those K Street lobbyists.
Border security is the policy you endorse if you don't want to impinge on employers. Which means that border security is the policy you endorse if you don't want your immigration enforcement to succeed.
Why guest workers? The United States in 2011 does not exactly suffer from a labor shortage. The unemployment rates for the most recent immigrants are particularly bad: the Latino unemployment rate is almost 12%, the unemployment rate for people without a high school diploma is almost 14%. How can you imagine that the US needs an even larger population of low-skilled labor?
When most Americans hear the phrase "guest worker," they think "agricultural labor." But past guest worker proposals have not been so limited. Such proposals generally provide that when employers cannot attract labor of a specific type at a specific wage, they may import that labor from abroad, and not only from Mexico (a middle-income country by world standards), but from genuinely poor countries such as Indonesia, Egypt or Vietnam. The only requirement is that guest workers be paid above the U.S. minimum wage.
Employers in difficult or dangerous industries such as nursing homes or garbage recycling can find Americans today who will do very hard work at very low wages. But such employees will not necessarily be grateful for the opportunity, and they will know that they can quit the job without forfeiting their right to remain in the country.
Guest working is the policy you endorse if your labor market priority is a cheaper and more pliable work force.
Why hearings? Gingrich had a good applause line about uprooting the illegal alien who has sunk 25-year roots in the country and has citizen children and grandchildren.
But how do you tell the difference between that person and between the illegal alien who has been present for 20 years? Or two years? Or two months? Gingrich proposes individualized hearings by citizen courts. But 12 million hearings? Really? Even if we could somehow complete a hearing an hour, you are talking about 1.5 million person-days, or 5,769 person-years.
And that's assuming the courts approved the concept, which they very well might not.
The idea is unworkable on its face. It would rapidly disintegrate into something very like blanket approvals of whole categories of illegals -- in other words, into some kind of qualified amnesty.
Hearings are the policy you endorse if your real goal is to find a way to represent amnesty as something other than amnesty.
Why not citizenship? Gingrich proposes to confer on much of the 12 million illegal population the right to live and work in the United States, but not citizenship. That is, not the right to vote.
At a stroke, the measure would create a huge class of subordinated workers in this country.
But it would also do something else, something very politically ingenious. The newly legalized residents of the United States would no longer have reason to hide from the Census Bureau. They'd be enumerated just in time for 2020. Immigration magnet states such as Texas, Arizona and Florida would gain increased representation in Congress and greater clout in the Electoral College. But because those new residents would not be able to vote, the clout would be exercised only by the state's older citizen population, and it would be that way for years to come. (Of the top 10 illegal immigration states, only four are blue states: California, New York, Illinois and New Jersey.)
Were illegal aliens to gain the franchise, they'd likely vote overwhelmingly Democratic. Even in the Republican year 2004, the Democrats swept voters with incomes of less than $15,000 by a 63% to 36% margin, and voters with family incomes of $15,000-$30,000 by a 57% to 42% margin.
As noncitizens, the former illegals would not vote at all.
Noncitizenship is the policy you advocate if you want to expand the low-wage work force while tamping down the number of low-wage Democratic voters.
Is there a better way? There is, and it's the way advocated by Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney.
1: Enforce the immigration laws at the workplace, removing the magnet that draws new illegal workers and encouraging the existing illegal population to return home. Yes, that population includes people who have been present in the country for more than 20 years and won't return. It also includes people who have been in the country less than 20 months and might well return if they cannot find work in the U.S.
2: Pause to assess. See how much an enforcement-first policy reduces the illegal population. The best estimates suggest that the recession of 2008-2009 sent perhaps 1.7 million illegals back home.
A prolonged period of enforcement -- and the removal of the offer of early amnesty -- would likely reduce the illegal population even more.
3: Debate and decide on any future amnesty proposal after enforcement has taken effect, not before.
If any approach to immigration deserves to be described as "humane," it is the approach that begins with concern for the stagnating wages of American workers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/02 13:03:23
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Lots of slams on Gingrich here. Remember, we're the guys who elected "depends on what your definition of is is" Bill Clinton.
Sounds like someone's getting nervous...
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote:Lots of slams on Gingrich here. Remember, we're the guys who elected "depends on what your definition of is is" Bill Clinton.
Sounds like someone's getting nervous...
Anyone that can get serviced in the Oval Office deserves a vote.
I didn't say it was a bad thing. I'd link what Carlos Mencia said about that, but thats for the DCM side.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
All for cloning him....Marilyn Monroe...who can top that
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Fraz....it was JFK that did Marilyn....in the Oval Office....with no cigar tricks..
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Jihadin wrote:Fraz....it was JFK that did Marilyn....in the Oval Office....with no cigar tricks..
Ayah, I was just getting confused.
(don't get me started on JFK though).
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: I'd link what Judas Iscariot said about that, but thats for the DCM side.
*shudders*
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Don't with Tricky Dick or he'll go Operation Linebacker on your ass. Nothing says "do what I say" quite like rolling B-52 strikes.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
olympia wrote:True story: Gingrich has a Ph.D in European history (I think his dissertation was on the school system in Belgium).
Preface:I read this yesterday otherwise I wouldn't know.
It was actually on Belgian education IN the Congo from 45-60.
Melissia wrote:
KingCracker wrote:Ok as a guy that cant stand Obama, and a guy that knows nothing about Gingriches position on things, how does he actually look as far as a candidate? is he votable or is a secret fruit basket? Id like to know, because I can tell you 1 thing, I wont be voting Obama this year
Newt is a fruit that only barely manages to hold it together long enough to speak a few coherent thoughts before going off on tangential rants.
So basically like most people who argue on this forum.
Of which you are no exception.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
Frazzled wrote:Don't with Tricky Dick or he'll go Operation Linebacker on your ass. Nothing says "do what I say" quite like rolling B-52 strikes.
And that is how you de-occupy Wallstreet.
Not a fan of Newt, but Romney and Cain are still my top two. I don't care if you're a Mormon, we're not a theocracy and I don't care if you're a womanizer, look at Morgan Freeman. Guy is probably going to marry his step-granddaughter and still has a career.
What we need now is someone with balls. Someone who is an actual leader and someone who knows how to get stuff done. We need Zombie Theodore Roosevelt. I think that being able to kill a cougar with a bowie knife should be a presidential requirement because nobody, and I mean nobody, wants to feth with a guy who can kill a predatory animal with a huge knife.
Frazzled wrote:Don't with Tricky Dick or he'll go Operation Linebacker on your ass. Nothing says "do what I say" quite like rolling B-52 strikes.
And that is how you de-occupy Wallstreet.
Not a fan of Newt, but Romney and Cain are still my top two. I don't care if you're a Mormon, we're not a theocracy and I don't care if you're a womanizer, look at Morgan Freeman. Guy is probably going to marry his step-granddaughter and still has a career.
What we need now is someone with balls. Someone who is an actual leader and someone who knows how to get stuff done. We need Zombie Theodore Roosevelt. I think that being able to kill a cougar with a bowie knife should be a presidential requirement because nobody, and I mean nobody, wants to feth with a guy who can kill a predatory animal with a huge knife.
I second Zombie Roosevelt for President. BULLY!!!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
I'd link what Carlos Mencia said about that, but thats for the 
with Tricky Dick or he'll go Operation Linebacker on your ass. Nothing says "do what I say" quite like rolling B-52 strikes.
