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darkcloud92 wrote:

Grimnarsmate wrote:Woo go stealth suits killing a trueborn, thats what I like to see
they must know ''tau'kwondo'!!!

lol

I'm pretty sure that is the most I have seen a stealth suit do in any Tau match I have witnessed or read a report on. Most of the time I have seen them deep struck in to take out vehicles and miss then get blasted the next turn. I am surprised he did not try to deep strike them behind the DE vehicles.
And JY2 is right, the weapons load out he has is not illegal or that uncommon. The two Gun Drones is pretty silly however, I do not recall him being in range with those during the game?

It's the most I've seen Stealth Suits do as well, but lets not give them too much credit, the Trueborn wasn't in cover and only have a 5+ armour save and then the Stealth Suits only just managed to do it. I am not a Tau player, but damn I can see why people say Stealth Suits are rubbish

Again, I am not a Tau player, but I would take shield drones if any. I think one gun drone fired once (the unit which got battered by Baron) the others got killed and the drone was always the first one to take a wound.

mercer wrote:

darkcloud92 wrote:

Grimnarsmate wrote:Woo go stealth suits killing a trueborn, thats what I like to see
they must know ''tau'kwondo'!!!

lol

I'm pretty sure that is the most I have seen a stealth suit do in any Tau match I have witnessed or read a report on. Most of the time I have seen them deep struck in to take out vehicles and miss then get blasted the next turn. I am surprised he did not try to deep strike them behind the DE vehicles.
And JY2 is right, the weapons load out he has is not illegal or that uncommon. The two Gun Drones is pretty silly however, I do not recall him being in range with those during the game?

It's the most I've seen Stealth Suits do as well, but lets not give them too much credit, the Trueborn wasn't in cover and only have a 5+ armour save and then the Stealth Suits only just managed to do it. I am not a Tau player, but damn I can see why people say Stealth Suits are rubbish

Again, I am not a Tau player, but I would take shield drones if any. I think one gun drone fired once (the unit which got battered by Baron) the others got killed and the drone was always the first one to take a wound.

Ya thats generally what the drones are for, to take the wound for the suit. Gun drones are 5 points cheaper than shield drones, so he might have not had the points for shield drones and taken those gun drones instead, just for wound shenanigans.

Maybe, maybe. I guess the shield drone is only useful if you get in combat or out in the open. Cover should be easy to find, and for what you said, I would take gun drone.

@mercer

Shield Drones are too expensive for what they do. They were great back in 4th ed, but lost popularity in 5th ed due to wound allocation. Imagine a Long Fang squad inflicting a bunch of wounds and one of them has to be allocated on the suit with the drone controller. Tau's codex is outdated and needs to be updated.

The Tau player should have castled in a corner rather than leaving everything in reserves.

Overall, solid game play on your part. Even though you had more kill points in your army, Dawn of War, Fortress of Redemption (which I agree with jy2 should never be placed in the middle), and the Tau's list inability to counter MSU mech-spam armies secured Dark Eldar's victory.

It's list like yours that I've stopped fielding Hammerheads and now field 9 Broadsides w/ Target Locks.

I think centre deployment would have helped thanks to the fortress. This would block my LOS and force me to flank around, while castling up in a corner would mean my splinter cannons could just sit back along with the dark lances. Either way, definitely better than reserving the entire force.

I think the fortress in the centre is pretty cool, adds some nice LOS blocking and isn't a shooting gallery. TBH it's quite annoying as have to flank around it. Normally on my own table I have two large pieces to block LOS or at least give cover, but these are not as big as the fortress and there is always a decent size gap in betwen them.

I think the Broadsides and Hammerheads both have things going for them which I have seen. If I did Tau I would take Broadsides because I don't like Tau vehicles and because of twin-linked. However, dark lances can end their day and enough splinter cannons will bring them down.

Got love venom spam. Not the best Tau list. max broadsides and suits period, no piranha, no remora, no hammerheads. And you want all your guns on the board 1st turn. And use some kroot. At least it wasn't a webway list, those get real ugly.

Venom spam is cool . If I played Tau it would be suits only, and definitely deploy my railguns with some support.

Stealth suits are far from rubbish, they just get used incorrectly with such alarming consistancy that they give that impression.

Honestly while I build my DE list it is the Stealth suit that has me the most worried.

mercer wrote:I think centre deployment would have helped thanks to the fortress. This would block my LOS and force me to flank around, while castling up in a corner would mean my splinter cannons could just sit back along with the dark lances. Either way, definitely better than reserving the entire force.

I think the fortress in the centre is pretty cool, adds some nice LOS blocking and isn't a shooting gallery. TBH it's quite annoying as have to flank around it. Normally on my own table I have two large pieces to block LOS or at least give cover, but these are not as big as the fortress and there is always a decent size gap in betwen them.

I think the Broadsides and Hammerheads both have things going for them which I have seen. If I did Tau I would take Broadsides because I don't like Tau vehicles and because of twin-linked. However, dark lances can end their day and enough splinter cannons will bring them down.

I have to chime in to say that the fortress really hurt the Tau player. Looking at the photos, it appears to have been mainly on his side of the board. You have what?, fast open topped skimmers that can fly over intervening terrain. So thats a 12" move, 2" deploy and 6" charge for a 20" total. Castling behind to fortress was the worst thing he could do. While the fortress is a nice peice of terrain, it really is too big to be used on a 6*4 board.

Cheers

Andrew

No, the fortress didn't hurt the tau player at all. the fortress was in the middle of the board and slightly angled.

I did do have fast skimmers, which can fly over the fortress - didn't the tau player have skimmers also?

And what exactly am i going to charge out of the venoms when i have kabalite warriors and trueborn?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nagashek wrote:Stealth suits are far from rubbish, they just get used incorrectly with such alarming consistancy that they give that impression.

Honestly while I build my DE list it is the Stealth suit that has me the most worried.

everyone else seems to disagree with you. stealth suits are not a problem for dark eldar when they have night vision.

mercer wrote:No, the fortress didn't hurt the tau player at all. the fortress was in the middle of the board and slightly angled.

I did do have fast skimmers, which can fly over the fortress - didn't the tau player have skimmers also?

And what exactly am i going to charge out of the venoms when i have kabalite warriors and trueborn?

But Tau skimmers are not fast, and with the size of them they can't clear the building. Besides which, why would he even want to fly to the other side?

Anything is better than Tau in CC, you could have tied up his forces while your CC troops ran round unmolested and cleared up.

Cheers

Andrew

mercer wrote:

Nagashek wrote:Stealth suits are far from rubbish, they just get used incorrectly with such alarming consistancy that they give that impression.

Honestly while I build my DE list it is the Stealth suit that has me the most worried.

everyone else seems to disagree with you. stealth suits are not a problem for dark eldar when they have night vision.

It's not the defensive capability that I'm worried about, it's the offensive capability. Every round of shooting is an entire unit of warriors, wyches, or trueborn dead. Naturally you never view SS in a vacuum, any more than you look at a squad of trueborn in a venom and think about how flimsy THEY are. (And they are.) In both cases it's about finesse. 5th ed players are so melta happy that they seem to think that SS should be used in that role. They should not be.

I thought stealth field generators were not negated by anti-night fight stuff like your acute senses?

As for lists, the DE list is obviously a tailored list with lots going for it. The tau list has a dash of this and that, no focus, and is being run by someone on his second game (if I read correctly its only his second game?)

I myself would change so much of the list its not funny. Now granted, everyone has a different play style, but still. He has less then full broadsides, less than full elite crisis and stealth teams, less than full pathfinders, more than minimum fire warriors, assorted wargear and guns on the HQ units, mixed up fast attack units. There is just no synergy. It appears either to be due to lack of models streched to play in a larger game, or a fluff list not designed to play competitive lists.

Then you look at the DE. 9 identical efficient vehicles, with 9 identical special weapons on the squads inside the vehicles. Redundant assault beast units. Special char HQ. The army is finely tuned to kill vehicles and infantry very very well, with no fat whatsoever.

I honestly feel bad for the Tau player playing versus such a list considering the incredible disparity going on here--the desparity has nothing to do with Tau being weak or old mind you. Finely tuned Tau can take DE to task quite well.

AndrewC wrote:

mercer wrote:No, the fortress didn't hurt the tau player at all. the fortress was in the middle of the board and slightly angled.

I did do have fast skimmers, which can fly over the fortress - didn't the tau player have skimmers also?

And what exactly am i going to charge out of the venoms when i have kabalite warriors and trueborn?

But Tau skimmers are not fast, and with the size of them they can't clear the building. Besides which, why would he even want to fly to the other side?

Anything is better than Tau in CC, you could have tied up his forces while your CC troops ran round unmolested and cleared up.

Cheers

Andrew

No, the Tau skimmers are not fast (though can be upgraded so they can fire like a fast vehicle), but my point is they can fly over the terrain just like you pointed out I can fly over the terrain and also why would I want to fly the other side of the terrain? I would be putting myself into range of rapid fire S5 and S6 guns.

I am not going to charge 5 or 4 Dark Eldar into combat when they are a shooting unit. Tau would probably still give them a good whipping anyway as they are only T3 5+ armour save and small units. So charging Tau with my Dark Eldar isn't a good idea.

Nagashek wrote:

mercer wrote:

Nagashek wrote:Stealth suits are far from rubbish, they just get used incorrectly with such alarming consistancy that they give that impression.

Honestly while I build my DE list it is the Stealth suit that has me the most worried.

everyone else seems to disagree with you. stealth suits are not a problem for dark eldar when they have night vision.

It's not the defensive capability that I'm worried about, it's the offensive capability. Every round of shooting is an entire unit of warriors, wyches, or trueborn dead. Naturally you never view SS in a vacuum, any more than you look at a squad of trueborn in a venom and think about how flimsy THEY are. (And they are.) In both cases it's about finesse. 5th ed players are so melta happy that they seem to think that SS should be used in that role. They should not be.

I can't see Stealth Suits killing a entire unit of Dark Eldar, there's also many factors you forgot about. I wasn't also looking at their stealth rule in a vaccum, I just said that it doesn't affect my D.E that much.

DevianID wrote:I thought stealth field generators were not negated by anti-night fight stuff like your acute senses?

As for lists, the DE list is obviously a tailored list with lots going for it. The tau list has a dash of this and that, no focus, and is being run by someone on his second game (if I read correctly its only his second game?)

I myself would change so much of the list its not funny. Now granted, everyone has a different play style, but still. He has less then full broadsides, less than full elite crisis and stealth teams, less than full pathfinders, more than minimum fire warriors, assorted wargear and guns on the HQ units, mixed up fast attack units. There is just no synergy. It appears either to be due to lack of models streched to play in a larger game, or a fluff list not designed to play competitive lists.

Then you look at the DE. 9 identical efficient vehicles, with 9 identical special weapons on the squads inside the vehicles. Redundant assault beast units. Special char HQ. The army is finely tuned to kill vehicles and infantry very very well, with no fat whatsoever.

I honestly feel bad for the Tau player playing versus such a list considering the incredible disparity going on here--the desparity has nothing to do with Tau being weak or old mind you. Finely tuned Tau can take DE to task quite well.

The stealth fields are not negated by acute senses/night vision, it is just D.E can re-roll to spot the unit, so it doesn't make much difference, especially when burst cannons are 18" and my range is 36" and average night fighting roll is 21".

My Dark Eldar list is also not taliored! Taliored means built to beat a certain army. My D.E list is take on all comers and has been built correctly, not tailored.

You did in fact read incorrectly, this is MY second game with this player, this player has a lot more gaming experience than me and used to own a hobby shop which hosted a gaming club.

Tailored I suppose has multiple meanings. I didnt say you built the list to beat tau, but was implying that your list is very tight/tuned with maximum efficiency in each unit. The tau list on the other hand is the exact opposite.

Taliored means to build your list to beat another army i.e made to fit. That's what taliored means. And yes, the Tau list is pretty pants.

A suit is tailored to fit the individual wearing the suit. I understand that tailored has gotten a different meaning for purposefully matching up versus a specific opponent in 40k, but still I used tailored as a way to describe the DE list cut to fit a very specific play-style for the DE player (you). Right word do describe my idea, double meaning ended up ruining my meaning.

As for lists, the DE list is obviously a tailored list with lots going for it.

It was a compliment to the quality of the list--no loose fabric hanging around, not constricting anywhere, aesthetically pleasing with all the synergy. Blame it on all the weddings I have been going to lately.

mercer wrote:

Nagashek wrote:

mercer wrote:

Nagashek wrote:Stealth suits are far from rubbish, they just get used incorrectly with such alarming consistancy that they give that impression.

Honestly while I build my DE list it is the Stealth suit that has me the most worried.

everyone else seems to disagree with you. stealth suits are not a problem for dark eldar when they have night vision.

It's not the defensive capability that I'm worried about, it's the offensive capability. Every round of shooting is an entire unit of warriors, wyches, or trueborn dead. Naturally you never view SS in a vacuum, any more than you look at a squad of trueborn in a venom and think about how flimsy THEY are. (And they are.) In both cases it's about finesse. 5th ed players are so melta happy that they seem to think that SS should be used in that role. They should not be.

I can't see Stealth Suits killing a entire unit of Dark Eldar, there's also many factors you forgot about. I wasn't also looking at their stealth rule in a vaccum, I just said that it doesn't affect my D.E that much.

SS will kill 8 GEq a turn bare naked and without support. For you, that IS a full squad. For only a small amount of assistance or wargear that number goes up to 10. SS should also be between 23-24" away from what they shot at, provided what they shot at is still alive or can make a meaningful attempt at retaliation.

Nagashek wrote:

mercer wrote:

Nagashek wrote:

mercer wrote:

Nagashek wrote:Stealth suits are far from rubbish, they just get used incorrectly with such alarming consistancy that they give that impression.

Honestly while I build my DE list it is the Stealth suit that has me the most worried.

everyone else seems to disagree with you. stealth suits are not a problem for dark eldar when they have night vision.

It's not the defensive capability that I'm worried about, it's the offensive capability. Every round of shooting is an entire unit of warriors, wyches, or trueborn dead. Naturally you never view SS in a vacuum, any more than you look at a squad of trueborn in a venom and think about how flimsy THEY are. (And they are.) In both cases it's about finesse. 5th ed players are so melta happy that they seem to think that SS should be used in that role. They should not be.

I can't see Stealth Suits killing a entire unit of Dark Eldar, there's also many factors you forgot about. I wasn't also looking at their stealth rule in a vaccum, I just said that it doesn't affect my D.E that much.

SS will kill 8 GEq a turn bare naked and without support. For you, that IS a full squad. For only a small amount of assistance or wargear that number goes up to 10. SS should also be between 23-24" away from what they shot at, provided what they shot at is still alive or can make a meaningful attempt at retaliation.

its not just that we think they are bad, it is that we think that there are better options than the stealth suits to do what you are saying they should.

Boy that was one sided and drop dead boring.
Would be nice to see more of those even batreps featuring spamDE where the outcome isnt decided on turn 2 or even at the glance of how the table looks.

A question:
Why even bother making a batrep with a murder list of DE spam vs for example an ork noob using lame ork list or as now, a tau hodgepodge played by a rookie on a table strongly favouring the close in DE spam army?

I agree with JY2 and Andrew, one glance at the lists and the table and I already knew for a fact who will massacre who.
Makes me remember when I was new and constantly lost to a tau player who always used a super tweaked list against my experimenting tryout armies and that on almost naked tables against me. Until I learned to tweak myself and set the table to be more neutral those were yawn boring massacre games.

Now those are my opinions and I also share them with some other people in here and no insults were used so to those who wish to rush to the usual defense, do refrain from sarcastic acid remarks thank you.

Pyriel, I cannot read your post, as you're on my block list.

That´s to bad for you.

Others can though.

Holy Jimminy Christmas! I have to agree with AndrewC on the topic of that big terrain blocker. If you look at whats on the other side what appears to be scarier? a group of Tau who could shoot your pants off and then get eaten alive in CC? or a bunch of DE who are tuned to wipe the smug smile of S5 gun toting expantionists as they get shot one turn then wipe the slick blood of their victims off the next? in any case, most people, (if not all), would agree that the fortress played more into the hands of the DE in this fight and would continue to do so no matter what the Tau list looked like.

True that the Tau could manage a better fight but they way the field is set-up, they would only make it a more sufferable defeat. Though in no way am i diminishing the skill or experience of either player but as several others have posted, the field is not in neutral favor.

Course i've played but a few games and could be talking out my rear for all anyone else cares XD

I agree with Pyriel. You pretty much knew who would win after reading the army list.