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BeRzErKeR wrote:You could do it by holding a laser pointer right in front of their head and trying to make a dot on whatever you're trying to shoot, or by whatever other method you please.

And holding it in front of their head lets them see through the back of their head ... how?

BeRzErKeR wrote:No; I was perfectly correct, by the rules in BRB. The rules have since changed. I should have checked the FAQ before presenting the argument.

Saying you're correct except for that silly FAQ is like saying you weren't speeding except for that silly 40MPH sign you passed.

Or, even easier, don't be desperate for every cover save you can get. Play aggressively, play defensively, play wisely...

Perhaps this thread should be titled. "GTG vs. TLOS & TFG"

DeathReaper wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:You're explicitly allowed to draw LOS through members of the unit which is shooting. . . which includes the MODEL that is shooting. Yes, models can see through their own heads. That being so, in many circumstances a model which was laying down COULD draw LOS from their eyes to some other unit.

Models can not see through their own heads. If the above were true Vehicles would not block their own LoS.

An infantry unit and a vehicle are entirely different units with seperate rules. Due to the fact that an infantryman can actually move himself to fire, he can fire in any direction. A vehicle is rather more cumbersome, and would require heavy maneuvering outside it's movement phase.

Also, on topic, as this represents models going to ground, I personally wouldn't have a problem.

rigeld2 wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:You could do it by holding a laser pointer right in front of their head and trying to make a dot on whatever you're trying to shoot, or by whatever other method you please.

And holding it in front of their head lets them see through the back of their head ... how?

Sigh. I could also hold it BEHIND their head, if for whatever reason I didn't feel like turning the model around, so long as I made sure it was in direct line with the eyes. In front of the head or behind the head makes no difference so long as you're in line with the model's eyes.

rigeld2 wrote:

BeRzErKeR wrote:No; I was perfectly correct, by the rules in BRB. The rules have since changed. I should have checked the FAQ before presenting the argument.

Saying you're correct except for that silly FAQ is like saying you weren't speeding except for that silly 40MPH sign you passed.

Haven't I already said that the FAQ makes it illegal? I'm quite sure I have. Twice, in fact. Do you need it a third time, for some reason? The fact that the FAQ removes the ability for vehicles to fire through themselves doesn't change anything else about the LOS rules.

Let me be explicitly clear; I am arguing the strictest, most TFG reading of the RAW. If I was actually playing a game and this issue came up, I would politely inform my opponent that I was there to play, not quibble, and request that we move on without trying to pull weird LOS tricks; if they persisted, I would then pack up my models. But this isn't about how you'd play it, it's about the RAW.

RAW, you CAN lay your models down when they GtG, and that DOES affect their LOS profile; but it causes so many other problems that it's really a bad idea, both from the perspective of good sportsmanship and the perspective of being able to play the game. I would say, don't do it.