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Also, painting the opposition as totally evil and destroying the country is something you have to go all-in on. You can't just dabble in it. You have to go completely 100% into it. I don't think they're willing to do that and if they did, the risk of backfiring and making them look like fringe radicals is high.
Under those conditions, the correct play is to put up someone who looks more stable and more safe.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 15:57:42
Frazzled, we already see that. In just about every poll for the least year, he's scored better than any of the major republican candidates.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 15:57:49
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Rented Tritium wrote:Also, painting the opposition as totally evil and destroying the country is something you have to go all-in on. You can't just dabble in it. You have to go completely 100% into it. I don't think they're willing to do that and if they did, the risk of backfiring and making them look like fringe radicals is high.
The Democrats dabbled in it during Obama's campaign and did quite well.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melissia wrote:Frazzled, we already see that. In just about every poll for the least year, he's scored better than any of the major republican candidates.
That's pre-campaign, though, which is a key variable.
Of course, being the incumbent, he should see a 4-5 point bump once his opponent is set. Especially if that opponent is someone like Santorum.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 16:00:01
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Rented Tritium wrote:The whole "obama is evil" narrative is not reliable enough to win an entire election.
That depends on where his approval ratings ends up, but you're probably right.
Frazzled wrote:
(Looks at Egypt and Iran. )
"we'll see....we'll see..."
How many American citizens did Egypt and Iran take hostage?
Iran, what 57? let me check wow close: 52.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Right, but since the predominant belief about obama is actually not that he's wacky left. .
Predominant belief by who? You?
The only people who actually believe he's wacky left are going to vote for ANYONE with an R by their name either way, so we can ignore them in any tactical discussion.
Real actual regular people don't believe the things coming out of the echo chambers. On the far right they are saying obama is the antichrist or whatever they new business is and regular people are more like "Obama is meh".
Thus, romney is the best call as he's the one who better plays into that attitude. A more fringe candidate makes those "obama is meh" people turn into "obama is not that bad, this guy is nutso" people, which is obviously not what you want.
The aura you want a republican candidate to exude right now is more calm like a new boss sent in as a fixer. He needs to be like "Everything is going to be fine, I'm here now, we're going to fix it. It's going to be ok".
Pandering to the fear and crazytalk about obama wanting to destroy us or whatever is going to turn off the middle of the road guys more than anything and charge up the people who were GOING to vote for a republican no matter WHAT happened.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Running against the incumbent with a radical position always makes the incumbent look safe by comparison. The whole "obama is evil" narrative is not reliable enough to win an entire election.
No, they just run on the "Obama is incompetent and can't get you a job," platform and win.
Seems like you're putting on the team colors here, man. I'm talking about strategy. I'm voting for Obama either way for a variety of reasons I don't want to talk about here. My posts are about what I think the best strategy for beating Obama is and I think that strategy involves Mitt Romney being calm and friendly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 16:08:30
Rented Tritium wrote:Also, painting the opposition as totally evil and destroying the country is something you have to go all-in on. You can't just dabble in it. You have to go completely 100% into it. I don't think they're willing to do that and if they did, the risk of backfiring and making them look like fringe radicals is high.
Under those conditions, the correct play is to put up someone who looks more stable and more safe.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Rented Tritium wrote:Also, painting the opposition as totally evil and destroying the country is something you have to go all-in on. You can't just dabble in it. You have to go completely 100% into it. I don't think they're willing to do that and if they did, the risk of backfiring and making them look like fringe radicals is high.
Under those conditions, the correct play is to put up someone who looks more stable and more safe.
If Obama is going to paint the republicans as extremists who want to destroy everything, he's going to need to go all-in or it will end up hurting him.
If he does, it STILL might hurt him. It's risky on a lot of levels.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Frazzled, I get the impression you think I am here to shill for Obama or something? I am trying to analyze strategy. I'd appreciate it if you left our personal politics out of it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/04 16:10:47
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Rented Tritium wrote:
Pandering to the fear and crazytalk about obama wanting to destroy us or whatever is going to turn off the middle of the road guys more than anything and charge up the people who were GOING to vote for a republican no matter WHAT happened.
That assumes they were going to vote. Lots of people don't.
Hell, I don't vote and I study this stuff for a living.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Rented Tritium wrote:
Real actual regular people don't believe the things coming out of the echo chambers.
Have you participated in a political discussion in the United States of America?
I have. Is that supposed to be a point? You realize that the average crazy on the internet does not actually represent regular people. Regular people are barely aware of day to day political happenings. Generally, if you are having a heated discussion AT ALL, you are already dealing with the fringe. Most people barely watch any news.
None of that hurt Bush, so I'm not sure why it would hurt Obama. Other than the "Lol, he's a Democrat and therefore soft on Defense." argument.
Rented Tritium wrote:
I have. Is that supposed to be a point? You realize that the average crazy on the internet does not actually represent regular people. Regular people are barely aware of day to day political happenings. Generally, if you are having a heated discussion AT ALL, you are already dealing with the fringe. Most people barely watch any news.
Which is actually my point. People that don't pay attention get taken in by the noise machine, that's why the noise machine exists.
American politics operates on principles very similar to marketing. Hell, the most lucrative career path for me, given my degrees in political science, is marketing.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/04 16:15:30
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Rented Tritium wrote:
Real actual regular people don't believe the things coming out of the echo chambers.
Have you participated in a political discussion in the United States of America?
This. IIRC, wasn't there a poll showing that a majority of Republicans were birthers?
So less than 25% of America.
Now if you polled further, what percentage of them are really serious about it and what percentage are like "oh I heard that was true at the barbershop".
Ok. That wasn't clear. However, Carter's rep doesn't spring from the hostages only.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Rented Tritium wrote:
So less than 25% of America.
Now if you polled further, what percentage of them are really serious about it and what percentage are like "oh I heard that was true at the barbershop".
It's not actually as huge as it sounds.
As regards those people who believe what comes out of the echo chamber, yes it is.
I suppose I should add that this goes both ways. I've been in many a coffee shop in my time (This one up the road makes bomb apple fritters.), and I often hear the "Ron Paul is racist." or "Rick Perry hunts black people." shtick. People believe this stuff. Regular people. Average people who are average, and therefore not very good.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 16:19:52
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Right, but since the predominant belief about obama is actually not that he's wacky left. .
Predominant belief by who? You?
The only people who actually believe he's wacky left are going to vote for ANYONE with an R by their name either way, so we can ignore them in any tactical discussion.
Real actual regular people don't believe the things coming out of the echo chambers. On the far right they are saying obama is the antichrist or whatever they new business is and regular people are more like "Obama is meh".
Thus, romney is the best call as he's the one who better plays into that attitude. A more fringe candidate makes those "obama is meh" people turn into "obama is not that bad, this guy is nutso" people, which is obviously not what you want.
The aura you want a republican candidate to exude right now is more calm like a new boss sent in as a fixer. He needs to be like "Everything is going to be fine, I'm here now, we're going to fix it. It's going to be ok".
Pandering to the fear and crazytalk about obama wanting to destroy us or whatever is going to turn off the middle of the road guys more than anything and charge up the people who were GOING to vote for a republican no matter WHAT happened.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Running against the incumbent with a radical position always makes the incumbent look safe by comparison. The whole "obama is evil" narrative is not reliable enough to win an entire election.
No, they just run on the "Obama is incompetent and can't get you a job," platform and win.
Seems like you're putting on the team colors here, man. I'm talking about strategy. I'm voting for Obama either way for a variety of reasons I don't want to talk about here. My posts are about what I think the best strategy for beating Obama is and I think that strategy involves Mitt Romney being calm and friendly.
We're agreeing on all fronts. I'm just saying the Republicans can, and should, be most heavily pushing the Clinton "Its the Economy Stupid" attack. If they elect Romney, thats what they will do, and why the Obama administration keeps throwing under the radar attacks at him.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
dogma wrote:Hell, I don't vote and I study this stuff for a living.
Maybe thats why you don't vote? You've seen the sausage making in action.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 16:22:02
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Rented Tritium wrote:
Real actual regular people don't believe the things coming out of the echo chambers.
Have you participated in a political discussion in the United States of America?
This. IIRC, wasn't there a poll showing that a majority of Republicans were birthers?
Right next to the poll showing most Democrats were Leninists.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
dogma wrote:
They may go all McCain on us, you never know.
Now I'm going to have to go there.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
dogma wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Maybe thats why you don't vote? You've seen the sausage making in action.
I'm also a well educated, white, upper-middle class kid with lots of connections abroad.
I'll probably be alright regardless of who is elected and, if not, there are some other really awesome countries in which to live. Like Australia.
Don't misinterpret Dogma, I'm saying you might be too close to the day to day, and got jaded by it, hence not voting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 16:28:44
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote:why the Obama administration keeps throwing under the radar attacks at him.
I actually think that the Obama campaign believes the republicans are going to go far right instead of friendly center. And if that IS the case, then painting them as crazy radicals might be a better play. That might explain why that's been happening a little bit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If Obama does decide to play against republicans going far right, they can just go center instead and it makes him look pretty mean.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/04 16:59:44
Political campaigns never operate on a single message. One message might be targeted to a broader audience than another, but there's always more than one.
No official statement made by anyone explicitly affiliated with Obama will be based on the GOP candidate being a radical, but that message will be disseminated via other means.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
dogma wrote:Political campaigns never operate on a single message. One message might be targeted to a broader audience than another, but there's always more than one.
No official statement made by anyone explicitly affiliated with Obama will be based on the GOP candidate being a radical, but that message will be disseminated via other means.
Wait, they just did that actually.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
