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snufflelupagus wrote:I have literally, in about 50 games, a solid 15-20 against hordes never come anywhere close to defeated a true footslogging horde army. It's true, we wound on 2/3 but I challenge you to kills 120 boyz + nob squad + big mek while you have 3 loota squads murdering you. Because when it comes down to it, after you've run all over the table, it just takes about 10 boyz with a nob to kill my entire army in the assault.

On a side note, I really like Jazz's list. Maybe a little too plasma-y a little lights on the missiles for my taste, but I really like it. I want to hear how it goes for him. I like original ideas from a Tau codex that basically has two good units. Maybe two and a half.

Our codex has four good units. Piranhas, XV8s, Broadsides and Hammerheads, commanders...we also have a few unit that are decent, but not good like kroot, skyrays, stealthsuits etc. The tau weakness is that we have a lot of units that are terrible too. FW, vespids, krootox, shapers...

But anyways, a strategically placed LBT can kill 10+ orks, and that means that, with BC, a RH can kill 13 ish ork boyz a turn, with good positioning. Also, most crisis suit teams put out about 12-15 shots a turn, with about half hitting, and almost all of those killing. Also, Broadsides cut through meganobz like butter, and no ork vehicle can stand up to them. A centurion attached to a unit of two bodyguards with the Blinding Spear+ config nets around ten on an average round of shooting.

TL flamer suisuits are always an option for killing orks. The best ways to do it are either to go barebones with it, just TL flamer and a BSF, but I've seen them run with TL flamer, shield generator, iridium and vectored retro thrusters, it basically ensures they'll survive combat, and means they can jump out and use the flamer again.

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:For elites, your suit configs are simply inefficient. Having one as a team leader (but without any other differences) is enough to save you a suit per game, in the right condition, you don't need all three to be different. Plus, as any veteran tau player will tell you, losing a suit is not a big deal. YOur suits have no teeth.

This. Though I am a proponent of the MP + BC + MT, his summation is right on point.

jazzpaintball wrote:The reason I deep strike is that I can take out something in the open... Now, tell me again why you would want more low AP shots mixed in with my expensive plasma rifle shots?

Because you assume you're going to hit something in the open, be able to shoot both teams at one squad, have LoS on the Pathfinders for Marker Lights. Considering the Positional Relay only allows one unit Deep Strike for that entire turn makes me wonder how you're going to get both down at the same time...

Any Space Marine player worth his salt will not be sitting out in the open for you to shoot him. He'll either be in cover or behind a building, so shooting TL plasma rifles at regular marines in cover is not going to kill all of them.

I think you are confused on how I use the positional relay.

I am not taking it to get what I want onto the field, I am taking it to keep my army off. If I hold the army till turn 3 or 4, I can bring in an overwhelming amount of troops onto the field on a roll of 3/2+ respectively. I bring on a single fw team or the kroot, baiting the enemy to come after me and to bring their units into marker light range.

With that, I can nearly garentee at least 2 of my three suit squads are coming in to sqash a week side of the enemy.

That right there is how I know I will get multiple suit sqauds in and how I know something is out in the open. It is ahrder for me to play people I play against regulary, but against someone that does not play me ofter or at all, my list is a bit overwhelming in turn 3 or 4.


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It is almost like deamon Tau.

The only Crisis suit config's capable of putting out 12+ shots a turn are Missile/Plasma and BC/Plasma inside of 12" and Missile/BC. Also, if you ever get inside of 18", which you will need to do to shoot your 12+ shots a turn, you will be getting 2 shots per living shoota boy back + 3 shots per big shoota on top of all the lootas shooting every turn. If they have 3 squads of 12 lootas, which is fairly typical, and they average 2 shots per turn, you are looking at 24 hits, ~20 wounds, ~7 failed saves just from lootas. Then lets say they have 81 shoota and 9 big shootas to start. And you kill 30 before they get in 18" range (this by the way, would never happen. Ever. You would need to put 60 wounds out, which is 120 shots assuming that all hits are wounds) you still have 50 shootas (100 shots) and 9 big shootas (27 shots). So they hit with 66 shoota shots, wound with 33, ~roughly 11 failed saves. They hit with 9 big shoota shots, wound with ~8, ~2 failed saves. So if you get 12+ shots with any suit squad, which puts you in range of them (you jump back 6", they walk forward 6" on their turn) you would be taking roughly 20 failed armour saves back. Which is 10 dead suits. This is all in ideal conditions, assuming they are all in range, you are in perfect range etc.

Your also assuming for the LBT that they are grouped as tight as possible, not in cover, and it doesn't scatter. If you are spread out as much as possible you may be hitting 10 models if you are super lucky, then lets assume you roll no 1's and get 10 wounds, then they take a 4+ cover save and you kill 5. To kill 10 orks with a LBT you would have get 20 models underneath the template and I'm not even sure that is possible.

Remember, BC wounds on a two on Orks. Railguns don't make short work of Nobs, each broadside squad is going to kill, on average, just over 1 per turn (1.125 assuming you never roll a 1) and a Hammerhead is going to kill about 1/3 of a nob a turn.

Also, the Big Mek giving cover to everything on the table. There is no way, ever, to have an ork army not in cover.

You also, in some lists, have Snikrot to come in on your back board edge so you can't even deploy on your table edge, you actually have to deploy 12" up to avoid the assault that kills your entire army.

I honestly don't know how to combat Orks as a Tau player.

Oh, and Piranhas are bad. 70 points for a gun that hits half the time and then acts a a minor speedbump for one squad.

And Jazz, please let me know how the Tourney goes, I am super curious. I think you've posted some battle reports here before right? With a similar list?

jazzpaintball wrote:I think you are confused on how I use the positional relay.

I am not taking it to get what I want onto the field, I am taking it to keep my army off.

... How exactly? By sacrificing a Suit Squad turn 2 and hoping you get the other two in turn 3 and 4?

snufflelupagus wrote:The only Crisis suit config's capable of putting out 12+ shots a turn are Missile/Plasma and BC/Plasma inside of 12" and Missile/BC. Also, if you ever get inside of 18", which you will need to do to shoot your 12+ shots a turn, you will be getting 2 shots per living shoota boy back + 3 shots per big shoota on top of all the lootas shooting every turn. If they have 3 squads of 12 lootas, which is fairly typical, and they average 2 shots per turn, you are looking at 24 hits, ~20 wounds, ~7 failed saves just from lootas. Then lets say they have 81 shoota and 9 big shootas to start. And you kill 30 before they get in 18" range (this by the way, would never happen. Ever. You would need to put 60 wounds out, which is 120 shots assuming that all hits are wounds) you still have 50 shootas (100 shots) and 9 big shootas (27 shots). So they hit with 66 shoota shots, wound with 33, ~roughly 11 failed saves. They hit with 9 big shoota shots, wound with ~8, ~2 failed saves. So if you get 12+ shots with any suit squad, which puts you in range of them (you jump back 6", they walk forward 6" on their turn) you would be taking roughly 20 failed armour saves back. Which is 10 dead suits. This is all in ideal conditions, assuming they are all in range, you are in perfect range etc.

Your also assuming for the LBT that they are grouped as tight as possible, not in cover, and it doesn't scatter. If you are spread out as much as possible you may be hitting 10 models if you are super lucky, then lets assume you roll no 1's and get 10 wounds, then they take a 4+ cover save and you kill 5. To kill 10 orks with a LBT you would have get 20 models underneath the template and I'm not even sure that is possible.

Remember, BC wounds on a two on Orks. Railguns don't make short work of Nobs, each broadside squad is going to kill, on average, just over 1 per turn (1.125 assuming you never roll a 1) and a Hammerhead is going to kill about 1/3 of a nob a turn.

Also, the Big Mek giving cover to everything on the table. There is no way, ever, to have an ork army not in cover.

You also, in some lists, have Snikrot to come in on your back board edge so you can't even deploy on your table edge, you actually have to deploy 12" up to avoid the assault that kills your entire army.

I honestly don't know how to combat Orks as a Tau player.

Oh, and Piranhas are bad. 70 points for a gun that hits half the time and then acts a a minor speedbump for one squad.

And Jazz, please let me know how the Tourney goes, I am super curious. I think you've posted some battle reports here before right? With a similar list?

Except your example had most of their army shooting at the one unit of crisis suits. Orks and IG are cakewalks, I've found. Same with DE.

Piranhas are 75 points for a model that hits on a 3 with a weapon that can destroy any tank in the game, and they have a 4+ cover save, and they can take FD which, when in a larger squadron, can shred an entire squad assaulting them. You could charge 3 FD piranhas with an infinite number of boyz, and they will (statictically speaking) all die.


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Also, with your postitional relay, you don't get one unit in on 2+ and the rest on normal rolls, ONLY the one squad can come in that turn, at all. The thing with that wargear is that it limits the quantity of reinforcements you can bring in.

I didn't specify at all who they were shooting at. I would just assume that once you force a leadership on a crisis suit squad you'd move on to the next. And when you've done that you move back and kill the most dangerous.

Look, I play Tau. I want them to be really good and I do fairly well with them in Tournaments.

Also, they FAQ'ed the squadron of Pirahna's the flechette dischargers, it goes off once, and even if it didn't why wouldn't they just shoot it to death.

If you'd like to enlighten me on why Orks are so easy, aside from just saying Orks are easy, I'd really appreciate it. I find them to be one of the most difficult armies to play. Daemons, Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, Chaos Marines, Vanilla Marines, MEQ Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Eldar are all pretty good matchups for Tau. Basically anything that jumps, teleports, or fleets is pretty rough, anything is universal FNP (Jump pack Blood Angels with their Priests), or anything that is just massive hordes I find to be really hard.

So if you have the answer to that question. I would really appreciate it.

KplKeegan wrote:

jazzpaintball wrote:I think you are confused on how I use the positional relay.

I am not taking it to get what I want onto the field, I am taking it to keep my army off.

... How exactly? By sacrificing a Suit Squad turn 2 and hoping you get the other two in turn 3 and 4?

No, You got it a bit backwards.

On turn two and three, usually I will roll in a FW squad. They come on the board and go strait into a DF that was designated for the Pathfinders. This gives my scoring unit mobility and protection. This is why I have two of them at the moment. I will bring in kroot if there is a good target on both edges since they outflank anyway. It is always nice to see a set of 5 or 6 scouts off to the side that the kroot can pounce upon.

On turn 4, i will open the "tau floodgates." This is a perfect turn since I will have at least 2 turns to work with, and most likely a third. in turn 4, most people have come out of their hiding holes and there is bound to be a few squads in the open for my suits to come down upon. Also, i can either zoom up to an objective with the piranhas from the board edge(18") or i can hit any tank REALLY hard that came within 18" of my board edge.

Once again, I think you guys were mistaken on how the positional relay works in my army.


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To Hazard: I know about the 2+ keeping everything else off the field but the one squad. That is what I want.


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snufflelupagus wrote:I didn't specify at all who they were shooting at. I would just assume that once you force a leadership on a crisis suit squad you'd move on to the next. And when you've done that you move back and kill the most dangerous.

Look, I play Tau. I want them to be really good and I do fairly well with them in Tournaments.

Also, they FAQ'ed the squadron of Pirahna's the flechette dischargers, it goes off once, and even if it didn't why wouldn't they just shoot it to death.

If you'd like to enlighten me on why Orks are so easy, aside from just saying Orks are easy, I'd really appreciate it. I find them to be one of the most difficult armies to play. Daemons, Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, Chaos Marines, Vanilla Marines, MEQ Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Eldar are all pretty good matchups for Tau. Basically anything that jumps, teleports, or fleets is pretty rough, anything is universal FNP (Jump pack Blood Angels with their Priests), or anything that is just massive hordes I find to be really hard.

So if you have the answer to that question. I would really appreciate it.

I have played orks too, and the strong builds i can handle, but the green tide is hard to handle. I have play so many others in your list lineup, but daemons I have trouble with. Please PM me and let me know a few of your secrets if you would not mind.

Thanks snuffle,
Waffles

Also, they FAQ'ed the squadron of Pirahna's the flechette dischargers, it goes off once, and even if it didn't why wouldn't they just shoot it to death.

Nope. The only FAQ stated that they are a squadron upgrade, meaning for one to have it, they all have to have it. They still all go off.

jazzpaintball wrote:

Vectorz wrote:Your third crisis suit squad, can he have a TL PR and a TL FB? Im pretty sure twin linking a weapon counts at as two hard points, making that 4.

WOW THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!

I never play it like that, but I must have pressed the wrong button on my army builder. YAY!!! that means I have 10 points to put somewhere else!!

Thank you for catching that, that will help out A LOT!

You can only havew three sytems, plus hard wired ones. So this is not actually legal.


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snufflelupagus wrote: I don't see many reports from the Tau perspective that aren't yours.

Here's three!

http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2012/01/tau-empire-vs-space-wolves-battle.html
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2012/01/space-marine-vs-tau-video-battle-report.html
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2011/12/assault-tau-battle-report.html


=)

jazzpaintball wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:

jazzpaintball wrote:I think you are confused on how I use the positional relay.

I am not taking it to get what I want onto the field, I am taking it to keep my army off.

... How exactly? By sacrificing a Suit Squad turn 2 and hoping you get the other two in turn 3 and 4?

No, You got it a bit backwards.

On turn two and three, usually I will roll in a FW squad. They come on the board and go strait into a DF that was designated for the Pathfinders. This gives my scoring unit mobility and protection. This is why I have two of them at the moment. I will bring in kroot if there is a good target on both edges since they outflank anyway. It is always nice to see a set of 5 or 6 scouts off to the side that the kroot can pounce upon.

On turn 4, i will open the "tau floodgates." This is a perfect turn since I will have at least 2 turns to work with, and most likely a third. in turn 4, most people have come out of their hiding holes and there is bound to be a few squads in the open for my suits to come down upon. Also, i can either zoom up to an objective with the piranhas from the board edge(18") or i can hit any tank REALLY hard that came within 18" of my board edge.

Once again, I think you guys were mistaken on how the positional relay works in my army.

So all that's going to sit on the field for three turns prior are the Commander, Broadsides, Pathfinders, a Devil Fish w/ Fire Warriors, two empty Devil Fish on the your board edge, and possibly Kroot? And its in the hope in the lull of three turns that somehow these units remain intact when the Reinforcements arrive? Two, four-model-count Broadside Teams and Pathfrinders for three turns?

You're sure banking on this stuff not running the moment they lose a couple models (Broadsides would take a Ld Test after losing a shield drone, Pathfinders would take it after losing two models, which isn't unrealistic, considering they'll be the only things on the board.

And what about your opponents outflanking units? Or Space Wolf Scouts? Or Ymgarl Genestealers? Or Vanguard Veterans? Or Drop Pod Army lists?

You're taking a pretty steep gamble by biding your time...

KplKeegan wrote:

jazzpaintball wrote:I think you are confused on how I use the positional relay.

I am not taking it to get what I want onto the field, I am taking it to keep my army off.

... How exactly? By sacrificing a Suit Squad turn 2 and hoping you get the other two in turn 3 and 4?

He WANTS to limit the reinforcements coming in!

I taught him this method and he uses it pretty well. It works.

The Tau present easy to kill targets for enemies and they do so with little fear of the reprisal they will get in many cases, allowing the Tau force to be whittled via LD checks and actual losses while the enemy approaches. There's no sense in allowing it. So don't.

Instead he uses spacer units to keep most of his force off the board and to force the enemy to split his forces up or face the wrath of the Broadsides for far too long and by making Broadsides the only available bait (spaced out of course), as hard as they can be to kill with drones, the enemy REALLY kind of needs to shut them up as quick as possible. Cause with Pathfinders, they just aren't missing anything!

So the enemy splits up to deal with these "curs" and in so doing, allows him to strong side the enemy LATE, without giving the enemy enough time to span the distances and respond. The overwhelming fire power is not whittled in the least in turn 4 basically and just washes over the weaker side.

This is the short version of many numerous posts. Lol.

Jancoran wrote:

jazzpaintball wrote:

Vectorz wrote:Your third crisis suit squad, can he have a TL PR and a TL FB? Im pretty sure twin linking a weapon counts at as two hard points, making that 4.

WOW THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!

I never play it like that, but I must have pressed the wrong button on my army builder. YAY!!! that means I have 10 points to put somewhere else!!

Thank you for catching that, that will help out A LOT!

You can only havew three sytems, plus hard wired ones. So this is not actually legal.


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snufflelupagus wrote: I don't see many reports from the Tau perspective that aren't yours.

Here's three!

http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2012/01/tau-empire-vs-space-wolves-battle.html
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2012/01/space-marine-vs-tau-video-battle-report.html
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2011/12/assault-tau-battle-report.html


=)

Those battle reps have the worst tau armies I have ever seen

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

Those battle reps have the worst tau armies I have ever seen

I am all for people not like one army build or another, but please give a reason.

Even if it is a stupid as " i don't like the color scheme," it makes you seem less of a douche.

Jancoran wrote:Instead he uses spacer units to keep most of his force off the board and to force the enemy to split his forces up or face the wrath of the Broadsides for far too long and by making Broadsides the only available bait (spaced out of course), as hard as they can be to kill with drones, the enemy REALLY kind of needs to shut them up as quick as possible. Cause with Pathfinders, they just aren't missing anything!

So the enemy splits up to deal with these "curs" and in so doing, allows him to strong side the enemy LATE, without giving the enemy enough time to span the distances and respond. The overwhelming fire power is not whittled in the least in turn 4 basically and just washes over the weaker side.

Two packs of ML Longfangs would mulch those broadsides. Four Rockets hitting at BS3 and wounding on a +2 and causing Instant Death is not something I would expose my Broadsides to needlessly, especially for three turns. And again, outflanking units would destroy anything within reach, especially Baal Predators, Space Wolf Scouts, and Land Speeders. A Deep Striking Space Marine army would absolutely love to fight this army...

I'm still not seeing how a compotent, tournament savvy Space Marine (Guard or Horde Player) would be cowed by four Broadsides for three turns...

KplKeegan wrote:

So all that's going to sit on the field for three turns prior are the Commander, Broadsides, Pathfinders, a Devil Fish w/ Fire Warriors, two empty Devil Fish on the your board edge, and possibly Kroot? And its in the hope in the lull of three turns that somehow these units remain intact when the Reinforcements arrive? Two, four-model-count Broadside Teams and Pathfrinders for three turns?

You're sure banking on this stuff not running the moment they lose a couple models (Broadsides would take a Ld Test after losing a shield drone, Pathfinders would take it after losing two models, which isn't unrealistic, considering they'll be the only things on the board.

And what about your opponents outflanking units? Or Space Wolf Scouts? Or Ymgarl Genestealers? Or Vanguard Veterans? Or Drop Pod Army lists?

You're taking a pretty steep gamble by biding your time...

Now just a heads up: The main strategy is what I said with the positional relay.

Now, luckily for us, we get to see the opponent's army list before the game. This will allow me to decide to go with my original plan or deviate and 'deploy normally.'

Tau are all about giving yourself the upper hand. Allowing my self to choose multiple deployment styles is going to help me, not hinder. This is in comparison with a kroot wall army in which you always deploy the same way every time without an option of deviation.

jazzpaintball wrote:Tau are all about giving yourself the upper hand. Allowing my self to choose multiple deployment styles is going to help me, not hinder. This is in comparison with a kroot wall army in which you always deploy the same way every time without an option of deviation.

I never touch Kroot. I run an all Mech Tau Army.

Now, luckily for us, we get to see the opponent's army list before the game. This will allow me to decide to go with my original plan or deviate and 'deploy normally.'

Remember that your opponent sees your list as well, so despite how or when you deploy, he'll know which units to keep in mind if/when they're not on the board...

Yes, agreed that they can see my list, and if they fear it, then I am better off for they will turtle in while i pluck away at them,

Now just a heads up, It seems that you are thinking that this is personal. The think about the kroot was not an attack, and you thinking as such is making me question whether the advice you are trying to give is worth anything at all to listen to. Those sentences had nothing to do with anyone in particular, rather just a popular tau build.

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:
Those battle reps have the worst tau armies I have ever seen

Lol. Worst builds ever, am I right? Yeah I imagine anyone who plays a list like that just isn't going to win a thing. In fact, who knows why people bother posting tripe like that eh? I mean can you imagine the gall of a guy writing a list like that and trying to play them at any kind of competitive event?





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KplKeegan wrote:
I never touch Kroot. I run an all Mech Tau Army.

Remember that your opponent sees your list as well, so despite how or when you deploy, he'll know which units to keep in mind if/when they're not on the board...

They see it...but they don't understand it. Ican't say this enough: your plan A is this. But the army works fine using plan B (more or less normal deployment) if needed. It's not trapped into one way of fighting. The enemy can stare holes in a list all day long but what good does it do them when theres nothing they can do to stop it? They can't will you to deploy more. They can load up longfangs but Longfangs arene't 72 inch range and they can TRY to kill the Broadsides in cover with 2+ saves with missiles but... Missiles may as well be bolters against them, really.

So while any enemy hasa shot at beating any army, what he is telling you is that the strategy works more often than it doesn't. And if it seems like it's not needed, he just deploys normally. Done.

Jancoran wrote:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:
Those battle reps have the worst tau armies I have ever seen

Lol. Worst builds ever, am I right? Yeah I imagine anyone who plays a list like that just isn't going to win a thing. In fact, who knows why people bother posting tripe like that eh? I mean can you imagine the gall of a guy writing a list like that and trying to play them at any kind of competitive event?

You post it and not expect criticisms?

Jancoran wrote:They see it...but they don't understand it. Ican't say this enough: your plan A is this. But the army works fine using plan B (more or less normal deployment) if needed. It's not trapped into one way of fighting. The enemy can stare holes in a list all day long but what good does it do them when theres nothing they can do to stop it? They can't will you to deploy more. They can load up longfangs but Longfangs arene't 72 inch range and they can TRY to kill the Broadsides in cover with 2+ saves with missiles but... Missiles may as well be bolters against them, really.

I just don't see this list being very effective in a tournament setting, where you see Longfang Spam, Draigowing, Blood Angel DoA and Fast Mech builds, Mech Guard, Mech Dar; really fast armies loaded in transports or outflanking Baal Predators, Space Wolf Scouts, or Deep Striking Drop Pods. You're not going to have enough shots to kill all of them, especially in a 2K event. And that's just Space Marines...

jazzpaintball wrote:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

Those battle reps have the worst tau armies I have ever seen

I am all for people not like one army build or another, but please give a reason.

Even if it is a stupid as " i don't like the color scheme," it makes you seem less of a douche.

Not even going into detail, I can sum it up fairly nicely: Few suits, and he took vespids.


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I run an all Mech Tau Army.

TX-42? That's the most effective way I've found of doing all mech tau. That way you keep those Missile Pods and Plasma shots in your army, without any T values (except commander)

Yea, too bad the tx-42 is illegal in most tournaments.

jazzpaintball wrote:Yea, too bad the tx-42 is illegal in most tournaments.

90%+ of games people play aren't tourneys, and while your thing is, I was talking to him, so your situation is irrelevant. They are just generally a great choice.

I am not trying to sound self centered, but isn't the thread for critiquing a tourney list?

jazzpaintball wrote:I am not trying to sound self centered, but isn't the thread for critiquing a tourney list?

Conversations sometimes wander, and considering this is dakka, this is pretty mild

Anyways, I've made my suggestions, and everyone else has made theirs. Post your new list and we'll critique it too, other than that, I don't see why we're still posting.

Not a problem. I will go through and make the changes and test it out. I will post up the findings and new list later this week.

Thanks for everybody's help.
Waffles

KplKeegan wrote:
You post it and not expect criticisms?

I just don't see this list being very effective in a tournament setting, where you see Longfang Spam, Draigowing, Blood Angel DoA and Fast Mech builds, Mech Guard, Mech Dar; really fast armies loaded in transports or outflanking Baal Predators, Space Wolf Scouts, or Deep Striking Drop Pods. You're not going to have enough shots to kill all of them, especially in a 2K event. And that's just Space Marines...

My list wasn't up for criticism. Someone said they wanted to see battle reports and I posted some. Enjoy.

As for him doing well: he won best overall recently at, YES a tournament and he won 4th at a 43 player GT qualifier with it.

So yeah. It can win. And its current form is sligfhtly more optimized now. So all in all, I'd say what he's REALLY looking for is tweaks that will optimize it further, not wholesale changes to what is already a potent list.

Are there armies he may struggle with? well of course there are. I know of no list that is indomitable. So, focusing back on Jazzpaintball now..




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Je suis2 au hazard wrote:
Not even going into detail, I can sum it up fairly nicely: Few suits, and he took vespids.

So it is then your opinion that Jazzpaintballs army would be superior to mine? After all, he has 10 Crisis suits. I have 1. He has no Stingwings. I have 9. So his list is better correct? Bacause of that right? That's what you said I think.

Stingwings would work well for a player like Jazzpaintball. He is already very comfortable with HOW to use a drop army. It plays to his experential strengths. Until you said this, I had not really consdiered what Stingwings would look like in his force.

But now I needs must... hmm... I have the models to test out anything he could possibly think to do with Tau. Could be a fun exercize.




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Total Roster Cost: 2000

1 Commander Shas'el+ Twin Linked Flamer + Positional Relay

1 Team Lead Crisis Battlesuit, + Hard-wired Multi-tracker+ Plasma Rifle + Twin Linked Fusion Blaster
1 Crisis Battlesuit+ Flamer +Twin Linked Plasma Rifle
1 Crisis Battlesuit+ Twin Linked Plasma Rifle+Controller
1 Shield Drone

1 Team Lead Crisis Battlesuit, + Hard-wired Multi-tracker+ Plasma Rifle + Twin Linked Fusion Blaster
1 Crisis Battlesuit+ Flamer +Twin Linked Plasma Rifle
1 Crisis Battlesuit+ Twin Linked Plasma Rifle+Controller
1 Shield Drone

1 Team Lead Crisis Battlesuit, + Hard-wired Multi-tracker+ Plasma Rifle + Twin Linked Fusion Blaster
1 Crisis Battlesuit+ Flamer +Twin Linked Plasma Rifle
1 Crisis Battlesuit+ Twin Linked Plasma Rifle+Controller
1 Shield Drone


6 Fire Warrior
1 Devilfish+ Disruption Pod

6 Fire Warrior

6 Fire Warrior

10 Kroot Carnivore Squad +2 Kroot Hounds

5 Pathfinder
1 Devilfish + Disruption Pod + Flechette Discharger+ Sensor Spines

5 Pathfinder
1 Devilfish + Disruption Pod + Flechette Discharger+ Sensor Spines


1 Team Lead Broadside Battlesuit+ Hard-wired Blacksun Filter + Hard-wired Multi-tracker + Hard-wired Target Lock+ Twin Linked Plasma Rifle + Advanced Stabilisation System
1 Broadside Battlesuit +Twin Linked Plasma Rifle+ Advanced Stabilisation System
2 Shield Drone

1 Team Lead Broadside Battlesuit+ Hard-wired Blacksun Filter + Hard-wired Multi-tracker + Twin Linked Plasma Rifle + Advanced Stabilisation System
2 Shield Drone

1 Team Lead Broadside Battlesuit+ Hard-wired Blacksun Filter + Hard-wired Multi-tracker + Twin Linked Plasma Rifle + Advanced Stabilisation System
2 Shield Drone


8 Stingwings
1 Strain Leader

Jancoran wrote:As for him doing well: he won best overall recently at, YES a tournament and he won 4th at a 43 player GT qualifier with it

Do you have a battle report because I just don't believe that at all.

So yeah. It can win. And its current form is sligfhtly more optimized now. So all in all, I'd say what he's REALLY looking for is tweaks that will optimize it further, not wholesale changes to what is already a potent list.

There's nothing wholesale changing about my recommended tweaks. Bonding knives keeps a Crisis Suit or Two in the game instead of running off the table and a cheap burst cannon can add wounds to an otherwise lacking unit. But frankly I just think the strategy is just plain erroneous against a seasoned tournament player.

TL plasma on broadsides is Terribad. You shouldn't fire your secondary weapons ever, and this 20 points x 3 would be enough for almost another broadsides, or to turn his HQ into a powerhouse.

Stingwings...the worst unit, in any codex. A unit of 10 (costing more than a tactical squad, and clearly designed to take out tac squads) was originally designed with the thought of clearing out a tac squad by devastating it with low ap and then assaulting. This doesn't work, however. 10 shots, five hits, four go down. Even if they don't assault, they will all be killed by the survivors. Flamer accounts for two or three kills, ML kills another two or three. Should be about 6 bolter shots, accounts for another 2 vespids. Now we have 6-8 dead vespids. You might kill one more in shooting next turn, but next time they either shoot or assault you're dead.

So your unit, which is more expensive then his, and with him being THE ideal target for your guys, still defeats yours.

Vespid suck.

Well, the 4th place GT qualifier does have a battle rep on it. look up the 10 threads I started, it is the one that says bat rep. I played three games. The I lost the first one with a squeek by him. I won the second against marines, and the third against marines. Now I will say that The second game was against an easier opponent. Not a new player, but not a seasoned vet as it were.

The last guy was a seasoned vet. Looked at my list and asked to play someone different for he did not think i was "enough of a challenge for his final game" to the store owner. After turn 3 he started complaining about how my list is BS and by turn 4 he was cussing and throwing dice, saying: "It is dice," and "I did not bring a 'proper' army."

I play a lot with very very good players. I know you all will never consider them good because apparently I am so bad I wouldnt know the difference.....

I dont win many games, I usually tie. I play a lot of dark angel termies, A LOT of blood angels (Storm raven, priests, maphiston, etc), quite a bit of vanilla and space wolves. DE, Eldar, and grey knights are more occasional.

Laugh as you see fit, but the list works. It is not perfection, and I do not really think it can ever take some really high up tournaments. I dont think Tau will get very many chances at that until after 6th ed comes out, but until then this list wins me tournaments. I hope there are a few Tau players out there that can go "Hmmm... something different, may be it might work." instead of "OMG< ITS SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I PLAY<< IT WILL NEVER WORK AND YOUR STUPID FOR TRYING>>>>."

Thank you for the people that gave me usable suggestions. I have no problem with criticism, but if you dont explain yourself on why you think it is worse/better to do something, then you are just coming across as a douche.

Waffles